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Future of TPE

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JonathanH

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Well thats just a bit of a silly thing to say isnt it?! there a few hundred people who work there might have something to say about this, along with the 1,000s who use their service every day.
I think they were referring to the operator and its philosophy, not its services, employees or routes.

The changes this week mean that the OP has got what they wanted. Now the difficult bit to restructure the operations to get something which delivers what passengers require.
 
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Ken H

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I think they were referring to the operator and its philosophy, not its services, employees or routes.

The changes this week mean that the OP has got what they wanted. Now the difficult bit to restructure the operations to get something which delivers what passengers require.
The interesting bit will be how much, if at all, the operation is merged with Northern.
 

JonathanH

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The interesting bit will be how much, if at all, the operation is merged with Northern.
The interesting bit after that is whether that would actually improve anything, without a fundamental restructure of how each route works.

Transferring, for example, Liverpool to Sheffield as a self contained service, half hourly, operated by Northern, would make both the CLC and Hope Valley routes into single operator routes, without the complication of long distance operation, which would be great for local users but not so much for longer distance travellers.

Taking Manchester Airport to Glasgow / Edinburgh out as an Avanti service seems to also be quite obvious.

Reducing the critical mass of TPE then makes it easier for Northern to swallow the rest.
 

LittleAH

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The interesting bit will be how much, if at all, the operation is merged with Northern.
Quite frankly it won’t be. All staff were invited into a call on Thursday and the northern rumour was quashed.

Additionally, was referenced OLR have no plan for TPE as yet. So the only plan in action is the recovery plan that FG came up with.

Seems the decision was taken late on OLR and no doubt seems to be a token political one, probably after the woeful local elections for the Tories.
 

yorksrob

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Seems the decision was taken late on OLR and no doubt seems to be a token political one, probably after the woeful local elections for the Tories.

Indeed. If nothing improves, the Government won't benefit from the decision when it counts next year.
 

JonathanH

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Indeed. If nothing improves, the Government won't benefit from the decision when it counts next year.
As discussed before, very few people vote purely on the circumstances of the railway. There are plenty of other things the Government won't be benefitting from either.
 

Bertie the bus

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Quite frankly it won’t be. All staff were invited into a call on Thursday and the northern rumour was quashed.

Additionally, was referenced OLR have no plan for TPE as yet. So the only plan in action is the recovery plan that FG came up with.

Seems the decision was taken late on OLR and no doubt seems to be a token political one, probably after the woeful local elections for the Tories.
Wouldn't you expect OLR to get involved and assess the situation before coming up with a plan? Surely at this stage the only available plan is to continue with the existing recovery plan until they can establish the roots of all the issues.
 

Ken H

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Wouldn't you expect OLR to get involved and assess the situation before coming up with a plan? Surely at this stage the only available plan is to continue with the existing recovery plan until they can establish the roots of all the issues.
No. They will come up with a quick plan to get the mayors and no10 off their backs!
 

Bertie the bus

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No. They will come up with a quick plan to get the mayors and no10 off their backs!
No they won't because the mayors and No 10 aren't on their backs. It is only on railway forums where people think others believe things will improve immediately. All the interviews with the Metro Mayors on Thursday showed they are fully aware things aren't going to miraculously get back to normal the day after OLR take over.
 

LittleAH

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Wouldn't you expect OLR to get involved and assess the situation before coming up with a plan? Surely at this stage the only available plan is to continue with the existing recovery plan until they can establish the roots of all the issues.
Firstly, I’m relaying what was mentioned on a call to all staff. Secondly, OLR have been in the background since the start of the year.
 

Jonny

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I don't think the regional mayors and leaders are always as helpful as they could be. I don't get why the North-East leaders (Messrs Gannon and Driscoll in particular) feel the need for direct services to Liverpool. Given that TPE is the de facto local operator between York and Middlesborough/Newcastle, surely the aim should be ensuring that hourly services are provided to all stations rather than headline grabbers, which seemed to appear in December 2022 with little consultation.
 

Bartsimho

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I don't think the regional mayors and leaders are always as helpful as they could be. I don't get why the North-East leaders (Messrs Gannon and Driscoll in particular) feel the need for direct services to Liverpool. Given that TPE is the de facto local operator between York and Middlesborough/Newcastle, surely the aim should be ensuring that hourly services are provided to all stations rather than headline grabbers, which seemed to appear in December 2022 with little consultation.
I can understand a Newcastle to Manchester and Liverpool service it connecting the 8th, 2nd and 7th largest cities in the UK
 

urbophile

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2nd city....why the detour to Birmingham?
What figures are these based on? Populations of cities or city regions? (the latter often applies to Manchester, like London; Liverpool's population is often counted as strictly within the city boundaries. And these vary immensely: Manchester, Liverpool, Nottingham for example have very tightly drawn boundaries; Bradford and Leeds for example include several discrete and quasi-independent towns within theirs.
 

Bartsimho

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2nd city....why the detour to Birmingham?

What figures are these based on? Populations of cities or city regions? (the latter often applies to Manchester, like London; Liverpool's population is often counted as strictly within the city boundaries. And these vary immensely: Manchester, Liverpool, Nottingham for example have very tightly drawn boundaries; Bradford and Leeds for example include several discrete and quasi-independent towns within theirs.
This was based on this list of Population I found: https://citymonitor.ai/infrastructure/where-are-largest-cities-britain-1404

It bases the population on the Sprawl so has grouped Southampton and Portsmouth as well. The data for this comes from the Demographia World Urban Areas report which is here: http://www.demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf
 

ARIC

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I'd be very surprised if diagramming, rostering and route knowledge weren't highlighted, not as the root cause of TPE's woes, but as the reason why their "behind the scenes" problems are transferred so completely and harshly onto passengers.

When you fragment routes into tiny parts, passing through stations where unplanned platform occupations would cause chaos, the caution you have to exercise in letting a train leave it's origin is so insanely high. It can be a challenge to get two train crew and a maintained train in the right place at the right time. TPE have set themselves up so that the planets need to align for anything more than a Huddersfield stopper to run. This is, from a frontline POV, a massive issue.

"Lack of train crew" is a genuine problem, but the real reason for so many cancellations, delays and problems is that, at TPE, it's more like "not enough train crew to run a service using the methods we doggedly cling to in pursuit of potential (but never achieved) efficiency and cost savings" - if running a train service was a video game, TPE have been playing on the hardest mode when they know they can barely get through the first level in one piece.

How much will be changed after the changeover, I'm not sure. But there's potential for these cultural problems to be identified and worked on. I know that at Northern the "first 100 days" led to some quite deep exploration of what was going wrong. I pray for the same for TPE.
 
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