York - London Family Returns

[bennorthyork]

I'm looking to buy tickets for 2 adults and 3 children with a family railcard to travel from York - London on Sunday 6th August, departing some time between 17.00 and 20.00 and returning on Wednesday 9th August departing some time between 15.00 and 18.00. I can see some advance LNER tickets available but none of the LNER family returns. Does anyone know if they are released later please? Or is it the case that there won't be any? If I look for equivalent trains in June then there are plenty of the family returns available. Thanks!

 

[Wallsendmag]

Try searching without the railcard , not sure if it’ll make a difference. Also I think these move to singles on Sunday so that may be a factor.

 

[Darandio]

I was going to suggest the same given the railcard discount cannot be used. From what I can see there are no family returns that far ahead.

 

[swt_passenger]

Theres an LNER website news item saying following the pilot their singles only scheme is being rolled out on “most of their routes” from 11 June?

From 11 June, after a successful trial, we're removing return tickets from most LNER journeys. Our simplified tickets will make it easier to find the best value ticket for your journey.

This new simplified ticket structure will allow customers to buy a single ticket for each leg of their journey. By removing the outdated practice where a single ticket can cost just a little less than a return ticket, giving customers better value fares, a return journey would never cost more than two single tickets.

Single tickets will also help reduce overcrowding, making more seat reservations available for those that want one

Please note, you will still see and be able to purchase return tickets available for other train operators, as well as a small number of LNER journeys.

Tickets & Savings | LNER

Looking for cheaper train tickets? Check out our top savings tips, as well as finding the best ticket type to book for your journey.

www.lner.co.uk

I’m not sure if this requires its own discussion thread, as it’s been expected for some time…

 

[Darandio]

There are still family returns available well after that date though. Maybe they will be the only returns to remain?

 

[kkong]

Is there someone able to provide clarity on exactly what "a small number of LNER journeys" means?

Does it include any flows starting/ending either north or west of Edinburgh, for example?

 

[Haywain]

I’m not sure if this requires its own discussion thread, as it’s been expected for some time…

It probably does - I've started a new thread.

 

[bennorthyork]

I've tried without railcard and it doesn't make any difference. I'm surprised at the cost of the fares 3 months in advance, even given that it's the summer holidays.

 

[mangyiscute]

Is there someone able to provide clarity on exactly what "a small number of LNER journeys" means?

Does it include any flows starting/ending either north or west of Edinburgh, for example?

Yes I'd imagine it means tickets that are set by other operators, so ones in scotland are a good example since they'll be mainly set by Scotrail.
If you want to ask more questions about this theres a thread here for it: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/lner-removing-return-tickets.248455/

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 May 2023 ==

I've tried without railcard and it doesn't make any difference. I'm surprised at the cost of the fares 3 months in advance, even given that it's the summer holidays.

LNER advances sell out very quickly, its shocking. Often a split ticketing website can find cheap options splitting at somewhere like Grantham or Newark since the advances to these places don't sell as fast

 

[island]

Is there someone able to provide clarity on exactly what "a small number of LNER journeys" means?

Does it include any flows starting/ending either north or west of Edinburgh, for example?

Yes, and perhaps journeys like Stevenage to London Terminals where Great Northern is the fare setter.

 

[Watershed]

Yes, and perhaps journeys like Stevenage to London Terminals where Great Northern is the fare setter.

Indeed. LNER wouldn't possibly want to give up their ability to undertake ORCATS raids, now, would they?!

We can also be fairly sure that it will include any LNER-owned flows where they set Day Return fares. Can't exactly see a £22.65 Off-Peak Day Single being introduced for Peterborough to Retford, for instance. That would open up far too many splitting opportunities.

The fact that this so-called "complexity" will undoubtedly remain undermines any argument that this is really about making things simpler. It's just the same as when operators such as XC introduced blanket time restrictions to "simplify" things. It's just a revenue grab.

 

[Gaelan]

Indeed. LNER wouldn't possibly want to give up their ability to undertake ORCATS raids, now, would they?!

Is there even any point in an ORCATS raid these days? Open access operators, sure, but otherwise isn't the money going to the DfT either way?

 

[Watershed]

Is there even any point in an ORCATS raid these days? Open access operators, sure, but otherwise isn't the money going to the DfT either way?

I'm referring to LNER's ORCATS raid on GTR between London and Stevenage, which is an example of a flow where they almost certainly won't be offering half-price singles.

Similarly, and in fact even worse, are their dedicated LNER only fares from Edinburgh to Aberdeen. They're almost in the category of 10p price war, given the miniscule saving on offer (e.g. LNER only SVR for £56.10 vs the Any Permitted at £58.10) and the huge restriction on the number of trains you can take.

The fact that the money goes to the DfT either way doesn't seem to have affected operators' actions. They are still individually acting as separate bodies, as if they each had their own interests. You'd be forgiven for thinking we were still in the heady days of "proper" franchising, were it not for the DfT's cost cutting!

 

[Gaelan]

The fact that the money goes to the DfT either way doesn't seem to have affected operators' actions. They are still individually acting as separate bodies, as if they each had their own interests. You'd be forgiven for thinking we were still in the heady days of "proper" franchising, were it not for the DfT's cost cutting!

Right, fair enough.

Similarly, and in fact even worse, are their dedicated LNER only fares from Edinburgh to Aberdeen. They're almost in the category of 10p price war, given the miniscule saving on offer (e.g. LNER only SVR for £56.10 vs the Any Permitted at £58.10) and the huge restriction on the number of trains you can take.

Yes, that's quite silly - I live on that route, and if I knew there was an LNER service coming up, I would just buy an advance for that train (LNER offers day-of advances, ScotRail doesn't), which is a far bigger price saving. There are very few cases where the LNER-only flexible ticket is a sensible buy.

 

[Hadders]

I doubt we'll see LNER introduce half price singles between Stevenage and London. LNER does set their own walk up fares between Stevenage and London which are effectively useless (there's any Anytime Day Return even though there isn't a LNER train from Stevenage to London before 09:00 and the LNER only Off Peak Day Return has evening peak restrictions, even though the GTR priced Any Permitted Off Peak Day Return has no evening restrictions).

No need for LNER to bother with ORCATS raids, in a typical GTR-style mess up the GTR operated ticket machines at Stevenage station actually give more prominence to the LNER only fares than the Any Permitted fares (which are shown as Route . [dot] on the screen. This encourages passengers to inadvertently purchase the wrong ticket for their journey while simultaneously gifting revenue to LNER.

There will be single leg pricing between Stevenage and London in the future but this will be as part of Project Oval.