Scotrail HSTs - 4-5 years in

[hexagon789]

I was meaning 6 spare for 15 diagrams, a bit more than a third spare.

They aren't necessarily spare though.

Some will be on maintenance for a start.

 

[Davester50]

So we're at cross purposes then.

 

[hexagon789]

Well, I doubt there are ever six sets just sitting around ready to be used at a moment's notice.

 

[Davester50]

No, but a few diagrammed to be would be nice.

 

[Railperf]

You don’t think that Laira, SPM, Neville Hill and Craigentinny having maintained HSTs for 40 years or more compared with Haymarket having never seen them before (and not seeing diesel-electrics for 30 years) might have something to do with it?

Absolutely it had a lot to do with it. Plus the fact these were being run on premium Intericty services probably meant a much larger maintenance budget was allowed for them. Wasn't Craigentinny one of the better performing depots - but sadly that expertise isn't easily transferred. You can move the trains easily from one part of the country to the other but not necessarily the people.

 

[delt1c]

Absolutely it had a lot to do with it. Plus the fact these were being run on premium Intericty services probably meant a much larger maintenance budget was allowed for them. Wasn't Craigentinny one of the better performing depots - but sadly that expertise isn't easily transferred. You can move the trains easily from one part of the country to the other but not necessarily the people.

Not far from Craigentinny to Haymarket

 

[43096]

Not far from Craigentinny to Haymarket

In mileage terms, no. But in terms of HST knowledge...

 

[Railperf]

Not far from Craigentinny to Haymarket

Out of interest, does anyone know if Scotrail managed to lure any LNER Craigentinny staff to maintain their HST's?
Just talking to a GWR 'Castle ' driver earlier - seems to think they are pretty reliable still on GWR - though Modern Railways stats suggest the figures are far lower than EMT and LNER achieved in their heyday.

 

[John Bishop]

Thanks. So the "spares" are actually being used when possible. If there are six of them I'm guessing it's something roughly like a couple of them on hand at Glasgow and Edinburgh and one at Aberdeen & Inverness.

No. There’s not any spare sets on hand in case of failures generally speaking. If a set fails then it’s replaced by a 158 or 170 for the rest of the day which also means knock on disruption to the following days service.

 

[ld0595]

Out of interest, does anyone know if Scotrail managed to lure any LNER Craigentinny staff to maintain their HST's?
Just talking to a GWR 'Castle ' driver earlier - seems to think they are pretty reliable still on GWR - though Modern Railways stats suggest the figures are far lower than EMT and LNER achieved in their heyday.

I thought they managed to lure some staff from Craigentinny to Haymarket. I'm sure it was mentioned on one of the older HST threads.

 

[Railperf]

Looks like two 5-car rakes of mk3's sitting at Slateford. How long since they last turned a wheel?

 

[hexagon789]

Looks like two 5-car rakes of mk3's sitting at Slateford. How long since they last turned a wheel?

They'll be the ten 'fifth cars' (i.e. Coach E, TSL vehicles) stored at Slateford; there are two others - one each at Haymarket and at Inverness. They have never been used in passenger service with ScotRail.

 

[SarahSanderson]

There was a working 5K99 1635 Haymarket Depot to Haymarket Depot around the Fife Circle tonight. Is this for crew training on type or are they planning to use these sets for peak time workings on the route? Apologies if this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find anyone referencing it.

Images show 43132 leading and 43037 trailing southwards from Thornton South Junction through the typical steady rain we seem to be getting every day!

 

[Dfatcontroller]

There was a working 5K99 1635 Haymarket Depot to Haymarket Depot around the Fife Circle tonight. Is this for crew training on type or are they planning to use these sets for peak time workings on the route? Apologies if this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find anyone referencing it.

Images show 43132 leading and 43037 trailing southwards from Thornton South Junction through the typical steady rain we seem to be getting every day!

Set turned to enable powercar swap.

 

[SarahSanderson]

Set turned to enable powercar swap.

Thank you Dfatcontroller - seems a long way around to turn a set! It never crossed my mind that a set had to be a particular way around to swap a power car. I live and learn!

 

[hexagon789]

HA19 had a PC swapped not that long ago.

43037 has been on a while, but 43132 was swapped for the previous 43183 back on Fri, 28th April.

 

[SarahSanderson]

HA19 had a PC swapped not that long ago.

43037 has been on a while, but 43132 was swapped for the previous 43183 back on Fri, 28th April.

It is almost like being back in the steam days where the pointy end is hopefully going forwards. Do the power cars stay with the sets? The images I have taken recently suggest they change fairly often with different power cars working in tandem.

 

[hexagon789]

It is almost like being back in the steam days where the pointy end is hopefully going forwards. Do the power cars stay with the sets? The images I have taken recently suggest they change fairly often with different power cars working in tandem.

Granted, just seemed quite recent was all.

Looking through allocations, while obviously PC swaps do occur of course, they don't always happen that frequently.

Though HA19 seems to have had more frequent changes than some sets albeit 43037 had been with HA19 since 14/03/23, 43183 since 07/03/23.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Thank you Dfatcontroller - seems a long way around to turn a set! It never crossed my mind that a set had to be a particular way around to swap a power car. I live and learn!

If your only "good" powercar is facing a certain direction, the bad one might need to be turned to enable the swap to take place.
It is quite a distance, but the safest one when it comes to changing ends for the Driver. The triangle at Haymarket Central Jn/Gorgie Jn/Haymarket West Jn doesn't have the requisite safe walking route for the Driver to change ends.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 May 2023 ==

It is almost like being back in the steam days where the pointy end is hopefully going forwards. Do the power cars stay with the sets? The images I have taken recently suggest they change fairly often with different power cars working in tandem.

No - that's why its being swapped.

 

[InvHst]

I can tell you now regarding spare sets the only place your likely to get a set come out at short notice is Edinburgh. Glasgow theirs no paths down from cadder, Aberdeen and Inverness hold no spare sets as such only Inverness and Haymarket do exams so if an extra set in Inverness expect that to be the exam set

 

[Gaelan]

The triangle at Haymarket Central Jn/Gorgie Jn/Haymarket West Jn doesn't have the requisite safe walking route for the Driver to change ends.

Do HSTs not have a gangway between the power cars and the passenger cars, to allow walking through on the train?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Do HSTs not have a gangway between the power cars and the passenger cars, to allow walking through on the train?

Walking through the engine room of a running power car is ill advised / forbidden. Anyone who has even been in an engine room will know how limited the space is.

 

[Gaelan]

Walking through the engine room of a running power car is ill advised / forbidden. Anyone who has even been in an engine room will know how limited the space is.

And briefly shutting down the train isn’t an option?

Just surprised, an entire trip around the Fife circle seems a rather extreme (if scenic) measure!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

And briefly shutting down the train isn’t an option?

Just surprised, an entire trip around the Fife circle seems a rather extreme (if scenic) measure!

You can only start up / shut down each power car from that power car’s cab.

A bit problematic as you can’t be in all both cabs at once.

It’s worth nothing the railway doesn’t generally do things for the sake of doing things… it would do this kind of long winded move if there was an easy alternative.

 

[Gaelan]

Thanks for the explanation!

It’s worth nothing the railway doesn’t generally do things for the sake of doing things… it would do this kind of long winded move if there was an easy alternative.

Yes, I assumed there was something wrong with my “easy” alternative - was just curious what it was!

 

[43096]

You can only start up / shut down each power car from that power car’s cab.

Not true. Both engines will start from one cab if not already running, assuming both power cars are prepped. If you want to start just one there is a local engine start facility in the engine room. Likewise, “engine stop” will stop both engines - hence there is a local engine stop button on the cab desk. Previously this was done using “Fire Alarm Test” which stops the local engine - some might remember hearing the fire alarm sound briefly on an arrival at a terminus station.

 

[John Bishop]

You can only start up / shut down each power car from that power car’s cab.

A bit problematic as you can’t be in all both cabs at once.

It’s worth nothing the railway doesn’t generally do things for the sake of doing things… it would do this kind of long winded move if there was an easy alternative.

Wrong. You can start the rear power car from the front power car and vice versa. You can only shut the local engine down from that power car though.

 

[Falcon1200]

Whether it would be possible is another thing of course, but having two Drivers on board, on in each cab, would mean the triangles at Haymarket or Niddrie (depending on route knowledge) could be used. Less time-consuming than a scenic tour of Fife!

 

[D6130]

Whether it would be possible is another thing of course, but having two Drivers on board, on in each cab, would mean the triangles at Haymarket or Niddrie (depending on route knowledge) could be used. Less time-consuming than a scenic tour of Fife!

....and less fuel-consuming!

 

[43096]

Wrong. You can start the rear power car from the front power car and vice versa. You can only shut the local engine down from that power car though.

In simple terms you can start or stop both power cars from either end or start/stop the local power car. You cannot start/stop only the other power.