security guards given police powers @ victoria station

[Shrub Hill]

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/858657-security-guards-given-police-powers

this from the metro, although on the face of it a logical idea, i wonder how long before the power rush goes to there heads! could be even more fun for photographers and spotters, especially if it was to become common place across the major stations!

 

[googolplex]

Aren't these the sort of powers council safety wardens have, as opposed to police powers (even those of a PCSO)?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Aren't these the sort of powers council safety wardens have, as opposed to police powers (even those of a PCSO)?

Yes, it's a sensationalists headline.

 

[nedchester]

Yes, it's a sensationalists headline.

So very little power then?

 

[googolplex]

Yes, it's a sensationalists headline.

I thought it was. Presumably people will draw the same initial conclusion I did until I actually read the article - that the security guards are to be given the power of a constable (which made me wonder how on earth they'd manage it!)

 

[northwichcat]

Shouldn't the thread title say "London Victoria" station to avoid confusion with "Manchester Victoria" where G4S sometimes act like they have Police powers anyway?

 

[Stigy]

I'm accreddited under this scheme, but I'd like to think the power hasn't gone to my head, lol.

I thought it was. Presumably people will draw the same initial conclusion I did until I actually read the article - that the security guards are to be given the power of a constable (which made me wonder how on earth they'd manage it!)

The powers are vertain powers that were originally given to Police Officers, although council wardens etc have got them too, in certain cases. Both RSAS (Railway Safety Accreditation Scheme) and CSAS (Community Safety Accreditation Scheme) were brought in by the Police Reform Act 2002. Southeastern's Railway Enforcement Officers, South West Trains' Rail Community Officers and Southern's Rail Neighbourhood Officers, are all accredited under RSAS.

I find it strange that security staff at London Victoria are to be accredited, assuming they'll be a static presence on the station, as there's already a high number of PCSOs there. Obviously the security company will foot the bill, so I don't suppose the Chief Constable of BTP gives two hoots, lol.

 

[Mojo]

I find it strange that security staff at London Victoria are to be accredited, assuming they'll be a static presence on the station, as there's already a high number of PCSOs there. Obviously the security company will foot the bill, so I don't suppose the Chief Constable of BTP gives two hoots, lol.

Given the number of feral youths causing terror at Victoria every morning, lunchtime and afternoon it'll take a lot more than a few plastic bobbies and security guards to restore order to Victoria so I suppose it's better than nothing.

 

[Stigy]

Given the number of feral youths causing terror at Victoria every morning, lunchtime and afternoon it'll take a lot more than a few plastic bobbies and security guards to restore order to Victoria so I suppose it's better than nothing.

Contrary to popular belief, not all PCSOs or security staff aspire to be Police Officers. My vetting is identical to that of a Police Officer's, the apptitute test is pretty much the same on recruitment and I'd pass the fitness test, therefore it's safe to say if I for one wanted to be a Policeman, I would be.

Sorry, it just grates on me when people use that term.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

So these security guards then, let me use an example for you;

Say I am going down there and I am on the platform getting Clan Line or another steamer leaving with a VSOE Special or a Sussex Belle or anything like that and they come up and spot me looking suspicious or doing anything wrong, does that then mean that they have the right to search me, question me etc?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

So these security guards then, let me use an example for you;

Say I am going down there and I am on the platform getting Clan Line or another steamer leaving with a VSOE Special or a Sussex Belle or anything like that and they come up and spot me looking suspicious or doing anything wrong, does that then mean that they have the right to search me, question me etc?

Read the article; it explains what powers they have (and if these were the 'best' offences that there are - otherwise the Metro wouldn't have used it - there's nothing to worry about):

The guards will have legal power to request a name and address for offences including begging, anti-social behaviour, criminal damage and will be able to confiscate alcohol and cigarettes from under-age teenagers. They will also be able to order cyclists off pavements.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

phew!

 

[Mojo]

Contrary to popular belief, not all PCSOs or security staff aspire to be Police Officers. My vetting is identical to that of a Police Officer's, the apptitute test is pretty much the same on recruitment and I'd pass the fitness test, therefore it's safe to say if I for one wanted to be a Policeman, I would be.

Sorry, it just grates on me when people use that term.

I never said anyone wanted to be a Police Officer. I'm using the term to express my disagreement with the purpose of PCSOs.

The last government told us that is was to have more front line people on the street as they'd be doing less admin and paperwork. Well why not change the law so police staff can do the paperwork and admin and get the police officers back out on the streets?

I also express concern about the civil liberties training PCSOs have to go through. How well are they trained about rights and responsibilities? In my experience, not very well in comparison to police officers.

Many of the real troublemakers seem to laugh at the PCSOs as they know they aren't willing to get involved in certain things and that if they just walk off they know they won't get hassled over it.

 

[strange6]

I never said anyone wanted to be a Police Officer. I'm using the term to express my disagreement with the purpose of PCSOs.

The last government told us that is was to have more front line people on the street as they'd be doing less admin and paperwork. Well why not change the law so police staff can do the paperwork and admin and get the police officers back out on the streets?

I also express concern about the civil liberties training PCSOs have to go through. How well are they trained about rights and responsibilities? In my experience, not very well in comparison to police officers.

Many of the real troublemakers seem to laugh at the PCSOs as they know they aren't willing to get involved in certain things and that if they just walk off they know they won't get hassled over it.

PCSO's wouldn't go into a 2 foot deep pond to rescue a chap who had blacked out, near to me, for health and Safety reasons. The chap died.
All the PCSO does in times of trouble is just radio for a regular to come and attend. Absolutely useless for front line crime fighting they are

 

[ralphchadkirk]

PCSO's wouldn't go into a 2 foot deep pond to rescue a chap who had blacked out, near to me, for health and Safety reasons. The chap died.
All the PCSO does in times of trouble is just radio for a regular to come and attend. Absolutely useless for front line crime fighting they are

And correct they were. In first aid, using DRABC the first letter is danger. You don't put yourself in danger, otherwise you may end up creating more causalties. Ponds whilst may be shallow can have very nasty, sinking, mud and trapping weeds. It's why FRS have a Special Water Rescue service.
Sorry, but this subject grates with me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Contrary to popular belief, not all PCSOs or security staff aspire to be Police Officers. My vetting is identical to that of a Police Officer's, the apptitute test is pretty much the same on recruitment and I'd pass the fitness test, therefore it's safe to say if I for one wanted to be a Policeman, I would be.

Sorry, it just grates on me when people use that term.

I don't think it is safe to say that. Many, many, PCSO's do not get promoted to real coppers. I personally agree with Mojo. If the government had done it properly, then there would be police officers out on the street, with civilian staff doing the paperwork. There would be no need for PCSO's.

 

[EM2]

All the PCSO does in times of trouble is just radio for a regular to come and attend. Absolutely useless for front line crime fighting they are

Because that's not what they are for. The S stands for Support.

 

[strange6]

Because that's not what they are for. The S stands for Support.

Well if ever I find myself unable to get out of water and am drowning, I could do without their 'support' lol
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And correct they were. In first aid, using DRABC the first letter is danger. You don't put yourself in danger, otherwise you may end up creating more causalties. Ponds whilst may be shallow can have very nasty, sinking, mud and trapping weeds. It's why FRS have a Special Water Rescue service.

Where have the hero's gone? All hail Elf n Safety for saving us from the dangers of boating lakes ! lol

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Where have the hero's gone? All hail Elf n Safety for saving us from the dangers of boating lakes ! lol

Probably all drowned through trying to be a hero.

 

[transportphoto]

And correct they were. In first aid, using DRABC the first letter is danger. You don't put yourself in danger, otherwise you may end up creating more causalties. Ponds whilst may be shallow can have very nasty, sinking, mud and trapping weeds. It's why FRS have a Special Water Rescue service.
Sorry, but this subject grates with me.

Not in a rude way, hopefully to help you - the C was dropped a good 3/4 years ago (see St John Ambulance, St Andrews Ambulance & British Red Cross' First Aid Manual)... other training providers may still use the old method but officially this has been dropped.

It is now just

Danger
Response
Airway
Breathing
Circulation

HTH

TP

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Not in a rude way, hopefully to help you - the C was dropped a good 3/4 years ago (see St John Ambulance, St Andrews Ambulance & British Red Cross' First Aid Manual)... other training providers may still use the old method but officially this has been dropped.

Not in a rude way, but I was taught by paramedics and they still use that. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. Although A and B are the priorities. C comes after everything else.

 

[transportphoto]

Not in a rude way, but I was taught by paramedics and they still use that. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. Although A and B are the priorities. C comes after everything else.

Wow - it must be local variations then as I know many paramedics and other high level First Aiders around here (and also the FA Manual) who have been taught not to use C sorry mate

Back on topic

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Wow - it must be local variations then as I know many paramedics and other high level First Aiders around here (and also the FA Manual) who have been taught not to use C sorry mate

Back on topic

I'll PM you

 

[jon0844]

It is now just

Danger
Response
Airway
Breathing
Circulation

Doesn't it seem very drab without the C?

 

[strange6]

Doesn't it seem very drab without the C?

I can't see very much danger of dragging a chap out of a 2 foot deep boating lake.

 

[EM2]

I can't see very much danger of dragging a chap out of a 2 foot deep boating lake.

Well, there must be some danger, otherwise he wouldn't need dragging out in the first place...

 

[Stigy]

I don't think it is safe to say that. Many, many, PCSO's do not get promoted to real coppers. I personally agree with Mojo. If the government had done it properly, then there would be police officers out on the street, with civilian staff doing the paperwork. There would be no need for PCSO's.

You've completely missed my point. Many, many PCSOs don't want to be Police Officers, which is also why the don't get 'promoted' as you put it. I'm having to be polite now, because apparently speaking your mind isn't allowed here unless you're speaking it to a mere mortal member...:roll:

 

[strange6]

Well, there must be some danger, otherwise he wouldn't need dragging out in the first place...

You're assuming that the cause of his fall was the lake itself! it was not; he had had a fit.
Still, if that was a close relative of yours, and somebody could have made the effort to get their knees wet and they didn't, I think some of the views expressed in this thread would change somewhat. I think some of this elf n' safety legislation takes us all for fools in that we can't think or act for ourselves based on a personal assessment of a situation. At the end of the day, it was all brought in for @rse covering due to the compensation culture. Sad society we now live in
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You've completely missed my point. Many, many PCSOs don't want to be Police Officers, which is also why the don't get 'promoted' as you put it. I'm having to be polite now, because apparently speaking your mind isn't allowed here unless you're speaking it to a mere mortal member...:roll:

You make a very good point there. Some posters on these forums would argue that the moon is made of blue cheese simply to wind you up. Don't fall for it but just have a wee chuckle to yourself! :-0

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I think some of the views expressed in this thread would change somewhat.

Mine wouldn't. I don't expect anyone to put themselves in any more danger than I would. The fact that they regularly do is something to be grateful for, not to demand more. Of course, some expect everyone else to do it except them.

You make a very good point there. Some posters on these forums would argue that the moon is made of blue cheese simply to wind you up. Don't fall for it but just have a wee chuckle to yourself! :-0

:roll: So are you saying I should change my views 'in case they wind someone up'? The answer to that would end in off.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You've completely missed my point. Many, many PCSOs don't want to be Police Officers, which is also why the don't get 'promoted' as you put it. I'm having to be polite now, because apparently speaking your mind isn't allowed here unless you're speaking it to a mere mortal member...:roll:

Personally, I think they were a silly thing to implement. The money would have been better spent on training of more regular officers. They have very little power, and everyone knows that, and thus people just laugh at them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You make a very good point there. Some posters on these forums would argue that the moon is made of blue cheese simply to wind you up. Don't fall for it but just have a wee chuckle to yourself! :-0

About 3 posts ago you were arguing against PCSO's. Now you're almost agreeing with him about them. People don't like those who jump on the bandwagon.

 

[me123]

Not in a rude way, hopefully to help you - the C was dropped a good 3/4 years ago (see St John Ambulance, St Andrews Ambulance & British Red Cross' First Aid Manual)... other training providers may still use the old method but officially this has been dropped.

It is now just

Danger
Response
Airway
Breathing
Circulation

HTH

TP

If we're going to go down this road, I can assure you that the C remains, although it may have been dropped in some First Aid courses. Assessing circulation is crucial, but I believe some courses have removed it because people have difficulty assessing a pulse (carotid in particular) and they just tell them to go onto compressions straight away now.

As for the "Danger" element, it has long been established that a rescuer should never put themselves in excessive danger to rescue another. There are very good reasons for this; in particular, if something goes wrong, you've potentially got extra casualties to deal with. This has been known for some time, and is not (as some would call it) "health and safety gone mad".

 

[GB]

I can't see very much danger of dragging a chap out of a 2 foot deep boating lake.

You can see the depth of a lake and the dangers lurking underneath just by looking at it can you?

You're assuming that the cause of his fall was the lake itself! it was not; he had had a fit.

Did the PCSOs know that at the time?

Still, if that was a close relative of yours, and somebody could have made the effort to get their knees wet and they didn't, I think some of the views expressed in this thread would change somewhat.

Things always look different when you are directly involved.

I think some of this elf n' safety legislation takes us all for fools in that we can't think or act for ourselves based on a personal assessment of a situation.

Agreed

At the end of the day, it was all brought in for @rse covering due to the compensation culture. Sad society we now live in

Compensation culture has a lot to answer for but just remember that not everyone is born a hero and not everyone is trained to be a hero.