GwR HSTs to be stood down

[HamworthyGoods]

Indeed. I note there are more 10 (instead of 9) car workings to the south west from the TT change, so can only assume that is in readiness to short form more London trains when they are a set short on the "locals". The whole plan would be great if the south west to London trains where exclusively 9 car and therefore couldn't be shortformed, but seeing as that isn't the case then its long distance passengers who face potential disruption. And all because the Daft can see the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Which SX trains have gone over from 9 car to 10 car workings in the May TT change then?

AFAIK the only changes affecting Plymouth are:

17.36 PAD - PLY 5 car vice 9 car
18.36 PAD - PLY 9 car vice 10 car
21.04 PAD - PLY 10 car vice 5 car

The 09.04 and 13.04 PAD - NQY workings remain as 10 car to PLY for 5 forward to Newquay (these trains are currently 10 car workings) and the 17.04 PAD - PNZ remains as a 10 car to PLY with 5 forward to PNZ again as per the current TT. 9 car formations remain the preferred formation for Paddington to WoE workings.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes they are - there are a number of 80x sat not used each day at both Stoke Gifford and North Pole as well as the slack diagramming mentioned in a previous post that will be tightened up.

It has been explained on this thread before the beat rate for the withdrawal of HSTs is not the availability of replacement stock but the ability to train the crews on the replacement 80x.

We'll believe it when we see it I think.

 

[irish_rail]

Which SX trains have gone over from 9 car to 10 car workings in the May TT change then?

AFAIK the only changes affecting Plymouth are:

17.36 PAD - PLY 5 car vice 9 car
18.36 PAD - PLY 9 car vice 10 car
21.04 PAD - PLY 10 car vice 5 car

The 09.04 and 13.04 PAD - NQY workings remain as 10 car to PLY for 5 forward to Newquay (these trains are currently 10 car workings) and the 17.04 PAD - PNZ remains as a 10 car to PLY with 5 forward to PNZ again as per the current TT. 9 car formations remain the preferred formation for Paddington to WoE workings.

OK fair enough, I was looking at the new driver diagrams and there seemed to be ALOT of 802 10 car workings but perhaps Plymouth have just picked up disproportionately more work on the 10s than 9s, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[RPI]

Which SX trains have gone over from 9 car to 10 car workings in the May TT change then?

AFAIK the only changes affecting Plymouth are:

17.36 PAD - PLY 5 car vice 9 car
18.36 PAD - PLY 9 car vice 10 car
21.04 PAD - PLY 10 car vice 5 car

The 09.04 and 13.04 PAD - NQY workings remain as 10 car to PLY for 5 forward to Newquay (these trains are currently 10 car workings) and the 17.04 PAD - PNZ remains as a 10 car to PLY with 5 forward to PNZ again as per the current TT. 9 car formations remain the preferred formation for Paddington to WoE workings.

The 1736 Pad-ply is going to be a 5 car?!?!?!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

OK fair enough, I was looking at the new driver diagrams and there seemed to be ALOT of 802 10 car workings but perhaps Plymouth have just picked up disproportionately more work on the 10s than 9s, thanks for clearing that up.

I’m pretty sure it’s been pointed out before with 5 car 802s on Cardiff / Penzance workings there’s very few units left to work on Paddington to West of England workings aside from the trains which extend on to Newquay and have been 5/10 car combos for some years splitting/joining at Plymouth. There’s only 19 traffic diagrams for the 802 5 cars!

As far as I can see 802s as 10 cars work every 4th ‘fast working’ from Paddington (09.04, 13.04, 17.04 and 21.04) so that is nowhere near “a lot” of the West Country Expresses - the split being 75% 9 car and 25% 5 car but this was all pointed out to you in this thread!

Cross Country HST withdrawals?

I’m not sure I remember any government in recent times giving rolling stock policy for public discussion! Quite. Then again some of the posters on here do seem to love a good conspiracy theory. The suggestion appears to be that there is a moustache twirling villain somewhere in a DfT office...

www.railforums.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 May 2023 ==

The 1736 Pad-ply is going to be a 5 car?!?!?!

So I understand. The 16.36 is 10 and the and 18.07 and 18.36 are 9

 

[RPI]

I’m pretty sure it’s been pointed out before with 5 car 802s on Cardiff / Penzance workings there’s very few units left to work on Paddington to West of England workings aside from the trains which extend on to Newquay and have been 5/10 car combos for some years splitting/joining at Plymouth. There’s only 19 traffic diagrams for the 802 5 cars!

As far as I can see 802s as 10 cars work every 4th ‘fast working’ from Paddington (09.04, 13.04, 17.04 and 21.04) so that is nowhere near “a lot” of the West Country Expresses - the split being 75% 9 car and 25% 5 car but this was all pointed out to you in this thread!

Cross Country HST withdrawals?

I’m not sure I remember any government in recent times giving rolling stock policy for public discussion! Quite. Then again some of the posters on here do seem to love a good conspiracy theory. The suggestion appears to be that there is a moustache twirling villain somewhere in a DfT office...

www.railforums.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 May 2023 ==



So I understand. The 16.36 is 10 and the and 18.07 and 18.36 are 9

Thats madness! Its heaving, at least as far as Newbury anyway! Annoyingly its one I have to work on a semi-regular basis!

 

[FGW_DID]

The 1736 Pad-ply is going to be a 5 car?!?!?!

Thats madness! It’s heaving, at least as far as Newbury anyway! Annoyingly it’s one I have to work on a semi-regular basis!

1C91 17:36 Paddington - Plymouth is booked for 10 car 802.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

17.36 PAD - PLY 5 car vice 9 car

1C91 17:36 Paddington - Plymouth is booked for 10 car 802.

You two are both my usual trustworthy sources of GWR diagramming information, so which one am I to believe here

 

[irish_rail]

I’m pretty sure it’s been pointed out before with 5 car 802s on Cardiff / Penzance workings there’s very few units left to work on Paddington to West of England workings aside from the trains which extend on to Newquay and have been 5/10 car combos for some years splitting/joining at Plymouth. There’s only 19 traffic diagrams for the 802 5 cars!

As far as I can see 802s as 10 cars work every 4th ‘fast working’ from Paddington (09.04, 13.04, 17.04 and 21.04) so that is nowhere near “a lot” of the West Country Expresses - the split being 75% 9 car and 25% 5 car but this was all pointed out to you in this thread!

Cross Country HST withdrawals?

I’m not sure I remember any government in recent times giving rolling stock policy for public discussion! Quite. Then again some of the posters on here do seem to love a good conspiracy theory. The suggestion appears to be that there is a moustache twirling villain somewhere in a DfT office...

www.railforums.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 May 2023 ==



So I understand. The 16.36 is 10 and the and 18.07 and 18.36 are 9

Well that explains it, as Plymouth don't work much out of London from May, but we do have the 1704 and 2104 so thats probably why it looked to me like a majority of trains! Just glad I'll have a seat at the front when the inevitable short forming occurs!

 

[RPI]

1C91 17:36 Paddington - Plymouth is booked for 10 car 802.

You've just made an old man happy, that and the 1636 are ones we get plonked on every late week we work and are both busy!

 

[Bringback309s]

If anyones wondering about what GWR will replace castles with, turbos and sprinters I suspect, released from branch lines after their recent purchase of 67 carriages! Well thats what they might hope anyway https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7059987237156847616/

GWR are now the proud owner of 67 of these cars, some of which I hope will see new life as Fast Charge-equipped battery trains on branch lines in the future. Meanwhile initial testing of our class leader battery train 230001 and its accompanying Fast Charge system is now wrapping up at Bletchley TMD, and will recommence next month at Porterbrook's Rail Innovation Centre at Long Marston; talk about coming full circle in this strange story!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

If anyones wondering about what GWR will replace castles with, turbos and sprinters I suspect, released from branch lines after their recent purchase of 67 carriages! Well thats what they might hope anyway https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7059987237156847616/

It’s already been explained up thread the Castles are due to be replaced by 80x units.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 May 2023 ==

1C91 17:36 Paddington - Plymouth is booked for 10 car 802.

Interesting! I have it showing as a 5 car 802 from the May TT change formed off an ECS from North Pole. Assume this could be a late change to the formation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 May 2023 ==

You two are both my usual trustworthy sources of GWR diagramming information, so which one am I to believe here

That’s a very good question - it certainly was showing as a 5 car 802 so sounds like it may well be a late change I’ve not seen yet!

 

[RPI]

It’s already been explained up thread the Castles are due to be replaced by 80x units.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 May 2023 ==



Interesting! I have it showing as a 5 car 802 from the May TT change formed off an ECS from North Pole. Assume this could be a late change to the formation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 May 2023 ==



That’s a very good question - it certainly was showing as a 5 car 802 so sounds like it may well be a late change I’ve not seen yet!

Its not a 5 car from North Pole that couples to a 5 car from something else by chance?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Its not a 5 car from North Pole that couples to a 5 car from something else by chance?

Doesn’t seem to be no, as the previous train from platform 11 (which is the booked platform for the 1736 from the May change) is the 16.50 Didcot which is 387s. The next working being 5C91 arrival forming 1C91 departure!

 

[John R]

To be fair, (s)Hitachi's inability to deliver what they are contracted to is also a significant factor. There is an argument that says why should DfT (and consequently taxpayers) pay more for additional trains purely to bail out non-performance by a contractor.

The contra-argument would be that passengers shouldn't have to suffer if a contract signed by the DfT fails to deliver. And that the penalties written into that contract for non-delivery should have anticipated the possibility of needing to source stock from elsewhere in the event of non-provision of the required service, and write those costs (or a proxy for them) into the contract, with possible penalties above that to incentivise delivery rather than failure. That's what most private sector contracts would do.

 

[FGW_DID]

Its not a 5 car from North Pole that couples to a 5 car from something else by chance?

Doesn’t seem to be no, as the previous train from platform 11 (which is the booked platform for the 1736 from the May change) is the 16.50 Didcot which is 387s. The next working being 5C91 arrival forming 1C91 departure!

Comes off North Pole as the 10 (IW959 & 968), works C91 then goes to Laira as a 10.

Thats LTP, has it been amended STP?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Comes off North Pole as the 10 (IW959 & 968), works C91 then goes to Laira as a 10.

Thats LTP, has it been amended STP?

Thanks for clearing that up, it must have been a late change to the LTP plan compared to the set of workings I had. I knew there was going to be some changes such as the IET on a Bristol/Worcester circuit and this must have been changed around a similar time.

Good to see it staying as a ‘long train’

 

[Dan G]

Can I just ask -- what was/is the stopping pattern and traction for the "Bristol superfasts"?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Can I just ask -- what was/is the stopping pattern and traction for the "Bristol superfasts"?

Off Peak 5 car 80x - Paddington, Bristol Parkway, Bristol Temple Meads

Peak 9/10 car 80x - Paddington, Chippenham, Bath Spa, Bristol Temple Meads

Some of these extended to Weston / Taunton.

 

[Annetts key]

Can I just ask -- what was/is the stopping pattern and traction for the "Bristol superfasts"?

On the service that I traveled on in the past a couple of times, it ran as a stopping service south of Bristol Temple Meads, then after that, IIRC, ran non-stop to London Paddington via the line through Filton/Stoke Gifford/Chipping Sodbury.

 

[Dan G]

Thank you

 

[brad465]

Richard Clinnick reporting that 43088 has been withdrawn, with 43158 soon to follow:

https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1656028949510606849

43088 has been stood down by @GWRHelp, the latest Castle power car to be withdrawn. 43158 is next, due to be removed from service later this week.

 

[50031]

What is currently to replace them is 5-car 80x cascaded through non-introduction of the Off-Peak Bristol Super Fasts and the post Covid Withdrawal of Peak South Wales/Bristol Super along with removal of Paddington to Bedwyn services. This frees up enough 80x. There’s no West Regional DMUs involved in the HST replacement nor any thinning of services in the West - this has been discussed at length on this thread.

The current planned pause in the total withdrawal of HSTs is to provide some slack in the DMU fleet whilst the turbo refresh continues, one of the 80x planned for HST withdrawal is from the May timetable change covering Bristol to Worcester services.

I presume that's why the all day IET Bristol-Worcester diagram is listed as reverting to DMU in September?

 

[170UTD]

Richard Clinnick reporting that 43088 has been withdrawn, with 43158 soon to follow:

https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1656028949510606849

How many is that stood down now and how many remain? I'm losing track.

 

[50002Superb]

Does anyone have a rough idea how long 43122, 43153 and 43154 have left in terms of miles / hours please?

Also, has anything happened to 43187? Not seen it out for a while

 

[Class91Joe]

Is there a full list of diagrams circulating anywhere for the Castles (new May timetable) please?

 

[50002Superb]

There is a comment on Twitter that 43188 is being stood down soon post the SVR Gala, can anyone confirm whether this is true please?

 

[Train Boy]

There is a comment on Twitter that 43188 is being stood down soon post the SVR Gala, can anyone confirm whether this is true please?

Have to admit, I've not kept up with this as of late. I note the same speculative information on Facebook groups additionally with others who appear to be in the know stating it isn't happening because 188 returned to service earlier this year - so a topic of debate it seems.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Is there a full list of diagrams circulating anywhere for the Castles (new May timetable) please?

These are the Monday to Friday workings (7 diagrams)

2C09 06:50 BRI PNZ
2P13 11:50 PNZ PLY
2C27 14:18 PLY PNZ
2U32 16:50 PNZ CDF
2C96 22:30 CDF BRI

2C00 05:33 PLY PNZ
2U14 07:40 PNZ CDF
2C79 14:00 CDF PNZ

2U12 06:40 PNZ CDF
2C77 13:00 CDF PNZ
2M77 19:15 PNZ BRI

2C61 05:00 BRI TAU
2U04 06:11 TAU CDF
2C69 09:00 CDF PNZ
2P20 15:15 PNZ PLY

2C11 10:15 PLY PNZ
2U24 12:50 PNZ CDF
2C89 19:00 CDF PLY

2U10 05:40 PNZ CDF
2C75 12:00 CDF TAU
2U22 15:13 TAU CDF
2C87 18:00 CDF PNZ

2C05 05:40 BRI PNZ
2U20 10:50 PNZ CDF
2C85 17:00 CDF TAU
2U30 19:14 TAU CDF
2C95 22:00 CDF BRI

 

[The_Train]

There is a comment on Twitter that 43188 is being stood down soon post the SVR Gala, can anyone confirm whether this is true please?

Not heard this one but Mr Clinnick is reporting that 43170 has been stood down