Cheapest Ticket: Banbury - Ingatestone?

[phil35]

Travelling this Saturday, wanting to set off morning/early afternoon, returning afternoon on Sunday.

I have a Young Persons Railcard too.

An off peak return is £31.35, which isn't too bad to be honest, but I thought I may as well check to see if splitting makes it any cheaper.

I'd look myself, but I don't know how splitting would affect the tube part of the journey (I'm not familiar with London transport - I don't want to make my ticket invalid!)

Thanks for any help!

EDIT: Oh, and by the way, I realise the outward leg of the journey involves a replacement bus service - this is fine with me.

 

[SS4]

Validity on the tube depends where you split. Essentially if you have a national rail ticket through London it's allowed but if you have one to London it won't be.

You don't stand to save more than about £5 (and you'd have to get a tube ticket) by getting advance tickets, I'd stick with your Off-Peak return for the flexibility and travel through London.

FYI It would be easier for you to go to via Oxford, your off-peak ticket will be valid and you stand to save about 70minutes in time

 

[phil35]

I believe this weekend the only option is to go via Oxford anyway isn't it? Bus replacement to Oxford and then train to Paddington?

The journey planner also comes up with bus to Bicester and bus to London from there, but I really don't want to do two buses (I'm not massively happy with one!).

 

[SS4]

It was suggesting a journey to West Ruislip and then the tube to Liverpool St. I did tick the slower journey box

 

[yorkie]

Birmingham to Ingatestone is £17.15 OPR (Super Off Peak Return) with a Railcard
Route: High Wycombe

Restriction : PV
JOURNEYS TO/VIA LONDON
MARYLEBONE OR PADDINGTON

SATURDAYS, SUNDAYS AND BANK
HOLIDAYS.

By any train.

(Restrictions apply weekdays but not weekends)

 

[phil35]

That is true, but according to the East Coast booking engine at least, that ticket isn't available to select this weekend, even when choosing the specific option Via High Wycombe.

EDIT: As I mentioned in the original post, I believe this is due to engineering works this Saturday. Rather annoying considering I could have had the ticket for nearly £15 cheaper and taking less time! But that's life I guess.

 

[phil35]

I never actually made this journey in the end as my friend cancelled at the last minute. However, we're looking at re-arranging for Friday 8th April in the evening, with me returning in the afternoon on Saturday.

Yorkie's suggestion looks very good then, just want to double check that its valid. If I buy the Birmingham - Ingatestone Super Off peak online, I can collect it from Banbury's TOD machine get on at Banbury, and finish the return journey short at Banbury, so long as I depart on the Friday on any train that arrrives into London after 13:00.

Restriction code is here:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/pdfs/OPR_PV.pdf

So I'm good to go then?

 

[bb21]

Nothing wrong with that. Although if I were you I would collect it beforehand from somewhere convenient if possible in case you run into problems on the day.

 

[LexyBoy]

Or just buy it from the ticket office (assuming you're not leaving after it closes), just in case you have to cancel again!

 

[yorkie]

In theory you can buy it from Banbury station. York would do it. But some stations do not adhere to the rules of impartial retailing and make up their own rules, and obviously this then can take time and effort to deal with. I have no idea how good Banbury station are.

 

[phil35]

I've had no experience with the staff at Banbury either, but I don't want to risk it. Which is exactly why I'd feel safer buying the ticket online and collecting it myself. That way I have no confrontations with the staff about what I'm doing.

I noticed as well, there appears to be no Super Off Peak from Birmingham to Chelmsford which is only 6 minutes up the line from Ingatestone (my friend lives in Ingatestone, we might be going for a night out in Chelmsford on the Friday night). That seems a little peculiar. But hey, when have rail tickets ever been intuitive?

 

[bnm]

I've recently used Banbury ticket office and had no issues whatsoever buying split tickets and a ticket that was used to start short.

I never actually made this journey in the end as my friend cancelled at the last minute. However, we're looking at re-arranging for Friday 8th April in the evening, with me returning in the afternoon on Saturday.

Yorkie's suggestion looks very good then, just want to double check that its valid. If I buy the Birmingham - Ingatestone Super Off peak online, I can collect it from Banbury's TOD machine get on at Banbury, and finish the return journey short at Banbury, so long as I depart on the Friday on any train that arrrives into London after 13:00.

Restriction code is here:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/pdfs/OPR_PV.pdf

So I'm good to go then?

I've found a further saving on Yorkie's quote. Leamington Spa to Ingatestone OPR (Super Off Peak Return) £16.15 with Y-P and more flexible than Birmingham - Ingatestone as it is routed: +Banbury allowing travel into/from either Marylebone or Paddington. Same restriction code: PV meaning you cannot arrive into London Terminals before 1300 on the Friday. No restrictions on the Saturday.

 

[phil35]

That's fantastic, thank you

 

[phil35]

I've got another question. I'm going ahead with the Leamington Spa - Ingatestone Super Off Peak return. The plan for this Friday evening involves a bit of a night out somewhere (no idea where yet, the planning hasn't got that far) in London, and then getting the last train back to Ingatestone (I've already checked - break of journey is allowed).

I will be arriving (if all goes to plan) into Marylebone. If there wasn't the break of journey then I would have taken the Bakerloo line, changed onto the Central Line to Liverpool and gone from there - I know my ticket would be valid for that.

But, if this night out ends up being somewhere else in London, how far away from the (aforementioned) tube route is my ticket valid? Is there some sort of Routeing guide for the tube?

I have an Oyster Card, and I can easily top it up with PAYG, so it isn't really a problem. I just want to make sure I don't pay anything I don't need to.

I know it would be a lot more helpful if I actually knew where I will be going, but unfortunately I'm probably not going to know until I actually get there :P

 

[MikeWh]

Your ticket is valid for one tube journey in each direction (including changes while 'in' the tube system). You can leave en-route within zone 1, AFAIK, but if you then want to carry on later you would need to pay with the Oyster card. Your ticket may not work the barriers at your alternative exit station, but you should be let out by the barrier staff.

 

[phil35]

You can leave en-route within zone 1, AFAIK, but if you then want to carry on later you would need to pay with the Oyster card.

So you're saying, for example, that if I travelled Marylebone to Oxford Circus (valid on my NR ticket) and left at Oxford Circus for a few hours, I would have to pay on Oyster for the Oxford Circus to Liverpool Street leg? That doesn't seems right. It's just a regular break of journey.

Unless you mean, If I travel Marylebone to Oxford Circus and leave for a few hours, but resume my journey at, for example, Victoria and travel to Liverpool Street along the Circle line then I'd have to pay on OYster? That does make sense. Then my NR ticket would take over once I'd arrived at Liverpool Street. Am I right in my thinking here?

If so, then I have one last question. Hypothetically, using my example above, if I left at Oxford Circus for a few hours, but then joined the tube at a station further down the line my NR ticket is valid for (in my case, Bank on the Central Line for example), would I still be allowed through the barrier? All I would have done is missed a stop or two out of the route I would have taken anyway.

Thanks for your help. As you may have gathered, I don't visit London often

 

[button_boxer]

So you're saying, for example, that if I travelled Marylebone to Oxford Circus (valid on my NR ticket) and left at Oxford Circus for a few hours, I would have to pay on Oyster for the Oxford Circus to Liverpool Street leg?

Yes, exactly. Your NR ticket lets you into the underground system once (and only once), at Marylebone. Once you're in the system the same ticket will let you out anywhere in zone one but not back in again later.

 

[phil35]

Ouch, I had no idea. I just assumed that as break of journey was allowed, so long as I stuck to the valid tube route then I could break as much as I wanted.

Well as I originally said, I'm not particularly bothered, I just wanted clarification - and now I know. Thanks for your help!

 

[LexyBoy]

Ouch, I had no idea. I just assumed that as break of journey was allowed, so long as I stuck to the valid tube route then I could break as much as I wanted.

LU isn't part of the NR network so the conditions and restrictions on your ticket don't apply - there is a simple "one size fits all" policy for connections by LU AFAIK.

I'm pretty sure your ticket will only operate the barriers at Underground stations which serve NR stations - so be prepared to explain that you're allowed to exit at an intermediate station in case the gateline staff aren't aware of this.


edit:

A ticket which entitles you to travel on the London Underground and/or Docklands Light Railway does not entitle you to break and resume your journey at any of the stations on these networks unless it is a Season Ticket or a Travelcard.

LU do allow exit though - see this thread for discussion.

I imagine the case is the same for other non-NR connections - for example would a SDS from Bristol to Minehead be valid to break the bus journey at Watchet for example? I would expect not.

 

[phil35]

I'm pretty sure your ticket will only operate the barriers at Underground stations which serve NR stations - so be prepared to explain that you're allowed to exit at an intermediate station in case the gateline staff aren't aware of this.

Is there a specific condition somewhere in the terms and conditions that explicity says this that I could print? I've tried explaining to rail staff in London before (I know that's massively generalising, it was just a bad experience) that I'm allowed to leave the station when the barrier wouldn't let me through. They told me I wasn't allowed no matter how many times I explained. They soon let me through when I whipped out the T&C I'd prepared earlier from my bag though
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A ticket which entitles you to travel on the London Underground and/or Docklands Light Railway does not entitle you to break and resume your journey at any of the stations on these networks unless it is a Season Ticket or a Travelcard.

I interpret that to mean I'm not even allowed to leave early at an intermediate station. But, does it mean breaking is not allowed and resuming is not allowed, or breaking AND resuming is not allowed, i.e. breaking on its own IS allowed?

 

[LexyBoy]

Is there a specific condition somewhere in the terms and conditions that explicity says this that I could print? I've tried explaining to rail staff in London before (I know that's massively generalising, it was just a bad experience) that I'm allowed to leave the station when the barrier wouldn't let me through. They told me I wasn't allowed no matter how many times I explained. They soon let me through when I whipped out the T&C I'd prepared earlier from my bag though

See here -

You can ‘break your transfer journey' and leave the Underground at any intermediate station, e.g. if you travelling between Victoria and Euston you can exit at Oxford Circus. However, if you subsequently wish to continue your journey by Underground you will have to purchase another ticket.

-----

I interpret that to mean I'm not even allowed to leave early at an intermediate station. But, does it mean breaking is not allowed and resuming is not allowed, or breaking AND resuming is not allowed, i.e. breaking on its own IS allowed?

That would make sense. The way the BoJ rules are phrased pretty badly IMO.

 

[button_boxer]

Is there a specific condition somewhere in the terms and conditions that explicity says this that I could print?

Not exactly in the T&C but it's explicitly stated on http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/crossing_london.html which seems pretty official to me...

"You can ‘break your transfer journey' and leave the Underground at any intermediate station, e.g. if you travelling between Victoria and Euston you can exit at Oxford Circus. However, if you subsequently wish to continue your journey by Underground you will have to purchase another ticket."

So not specifically "anywhere in zone 1" but anywhere on a reasonable route for your through journey (i.e. you might have an argument on your hands if you tried to exit at Victoria or Charing Cross but anywhere on the Central line between Oxford Circus and Liverpool Street is definitely OK. Tottenham Court Road would be OK, Leicester Square would be debatable under this definition).

 

[phil35]

Printed. Thanks for all your help.

 

[RJ]

Could somebody point me to where this "any station in Zone 1" rule is stated please? I'm sceptical that it exists as a rule, given that some of the stations recognised as transfers are not in Zone 1, such as Stratford and Upminster...

 

[yorkie]

I'm pretty sure your ticket will only operate the barriers at Underground stations which serve NR stations

I'm unsure about places like Barking, Wimbledon etc, it is possible but I would be surprised (and it wouldn't be valid in my opinion!) however it is unclear how 'serve NR stations' is defined but if you mean 'are recognised interchange stations' then I'd agree, e.g. Aldgate, Tower Hill.

 

[LexyBoy]

I'm unsure about places like Barking, Wimbledon etc, it is possible but I would be surprised (and it wouldn't be valid in my opinion!) however it is unclear how 'serve NR stations' is defined but if you mean 'are recognised interchange stations' then I'd agree, e.g. Aldgate, Tower Hill.

Sorry yes, that's what I meant (I was just thinking of the obvious ones such as Victoria, Waterloo etc) - and as RJ points out they aren't necessarily in Z1.

I'm not sure how an "intermediate station" is defined (and whether LU staff would know which stations you're connecting between) but it would be best to stick to reasonable routes (which should still give you plenty of choice - Circle/District or Bakerloo+Central or maybe Bakerloo+southern District. I would think that ticket would be valid to Stratford on the Central line too).

I think the ticket will let you out at any of the listed interchange stations, but wouldn't advise trying it somewhere it's obviously not valid!

 

[phil35]

And what list of interchange stations would that be? Is there a link? I'm getting confused again now - I thought my ticket would only let me out at station that has a NR station? But using your example of Aldgate, according to here:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/standard-tube-map.pdf

Aldgate has no NR station. I think I'm missing something but if you could explain why I would be let out at Aldgate then that would be great

 

[LexyBoy]

And what list of interchange stations would that be? Is there a link? I'm getting confused again now - I thought my ticket would only let me out at station that has a NR station? But using your example of Aldgate, according to here:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/standard-tube-map.pdf

Aldgate has no NR station. I think I'm missing something but if you could explain why I would be let out at Aldgate then that would be great

The list of recognised interchange stations is on the National Rail page "Crossing London":
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/crossing_london.html#travelling_connect

Note that it does say "List of London Tube / DLR Stations between which single/return tickets valid for travel ‘via London' may be used -subject to route of the through journey being made." - however in my experience a ticket with the ‘†' marker will work the barriers at any of these (which isn't the same as it being valid!).

Note that the ticket working at interchange stations is distinct from the facility to break your journey at an intermediate station between Marylebone* and Liverpool St, where you will probably have to be let out manually but is definitely valid (unless you're taking a really convoluted route, or couldn't possibly be connecting between NR stations, e.g. trying it at Hampstead).

Oh, and Aldgate is for Fenchurch St station BTW.

*Your ticket would also be valid to Paddington or Waterloo, so any reasonable Tube route from these stations would be fair game too.

 

[phil35]

I saw that list as well - I got the impression the list you were referring to was somethign different.

Okay, well I'm only going to stick to what my ticket is valid for, and only attempt to break at an intermediate station between Marylbone and Liverpool Street as you said.

However, you mentioned Waterloo. This confuses me. I realise that I could instead arrive into Paddington from Banbury and travel Paddington - Liverpool Street instead, but why would Waterloo be a valid station for me to arrive into? I don't even know how I'd get there from Banbury!

EDIT: I should note that I'm not particularly bother about paying any extra to make my trip across London. I'm just rather uninformed on the subject, and I'm trying to get my head around how it works, what's valid / what isn't etc. Hence all the questions

 

[Paul Kelly]

You can change at Reading for a South West Trains service into Waterloo.