Northern line train evacuation at Clapham Common

[T-Karmel]

I just saw this video posted 15 mins ago showing people smashing out the windows to get out of the Northern line train that is only partially in the platform (presumably the reason that doors weren't opened). Description says there was a fire on the train, location stated as Clapham Common.

I cannot see a similar thread on the forum, so I'm posting this one.

Instagram

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== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 May 2023 ==

TfL status currently states:

Northern Line: Severe delays due to an earlier fire alert at Clapham Common tickets are being accepted on London Trams, Southeastern, Thameslink and Buses via any reasonable route

 

[matt_world2004]

Brake dust but people confused with smoke

 

[Adoarable]

I've scrolled through some videos on Twitter. It appears to be a northbound train that has stopped while leaving the station, with most of the train still platformed. The rear unit is 51661.

 

[JustPassingBy]

How long do the broken windows put the train out of action for?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

How long do the broken windows put the train out of action for?

A depot job I should imagine .......(changing say a main widow on a 321 unit could be done in maybe 30 mins on a platform from my experience) .....

 

[Mojo]

Classic example of mass panic. Not the first example of crowds of people acting inexplicably and won’t be the last.

 

[TUC]

Telegraph report as follows:

'Passengers appear to have been forced to smash the windows of a London Underground train to escape as smoke filled the carriages.

In videos circulating on social media, workmen can be seen outside a train at Clapham Common Station smashing through the windows with hammers to help people get out of the tube.

Witnesses sharing videos on Twitter claimed that the doors would not open as smoke travelled through the carriages, with others criticising the response from station staff.

Jake Sharp, who shared a picture of the chaos, wrote: “Stuck on the train at Clapham Common and carriages filling with smoke, doors won’t open if it wasn’t for workmen on the platform we wouldn’t have got out @‌TfL you should be ashamed!

“The response from station staff was horrific!”

Nick Bonfield, who was travelling to a friend’s stag party, told The Telegraph that the train began leaving Clapham Common Station before stopping abruptly.

He said passengers then began to get agitated when they were unable to open the doors and the lights in the carriages cut out.

He said: “It stank of smoke and there was a lot of panic, it was a chaotic scene.

“As you imagine a lot of people’s worst fear is being trapped in a locked tube, underground, when it is on fire.”

Another passenger told The Telegraph that there didn’t appear to be anyone hurt and people were able to evacuate in an orderly fashion once the doors had been opened.

Others remained on the platform taking pictures of the smashed glass and smoke-damaged carriages.

People leaving the station reported seeing fire engines arriving at the scene.

A Transport for London spokesperson said: “We’re sorry for the distress caused at Clapham Common. The London Fire Brigade attended the station and confirmed there was no fire. We are investigating the details of this incident.”

Watch: London tube passengers smash windows to escape smoke-filled carriages

Workmen outside the train can be seen smashing through the windows with hammers to help people get out

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[FOH]

Classic example of mass panic. Not the first example of crowds of people acting inexplicably and won’t be the last.

Not an ideal station for a train full of passengers to quickly bail out from. I could imagine the crowds pushing towards the opposite platform...

 

[pelli]

I was wondering why nobody pulled the egress handles to open the doors, and then realised that maybe they don't have any! While researching this issue further, I stumbled upon a District Dave's Forum thread discussing a similar incident on the Central Line at Holland Park in August 2013: Tube train departing station comes to a halt halfway in the tunnel, burning smell, passengers urgently trying to escape (one even climbing out the gap between cars!), but in that case they managed to get a door open before someone thought to smash the windows.

What Happened Here? | District Dave's London Underground Site

Dont look good :-S

districtdavesforum.co.uk

RAIB report: https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/unc...don-underground-train-at-holland-park-station

At around 18:35 hrs on 25 August 2013, a London Underground train departing Holland Park station was brought to a halt by the first of many passenger emergency alarm activations, after smoke and a smell of burning entered the train. During the following four minutes, until the train doors still in the platform were opened by the train operator (driver), around 13 passengers, including some children, climbed out of the train via the doors at the ends of carriages.

The investigation found that rising fear spread through the train when passengers perceived little or no response from the train operator to the activation of the passenger emergency alarms, the train side-doors remained locked and they were unable to open them, and they could not see any staff on the platform to deal with the situation. Believing they were in danger, a number of people in different parts of the train identified that they could climb over the top of safety barriers in the gaps between carriages to reach the platform.

A burning smell from the train had been reported when the train was at the previous station, Notting Hill Gate, and although a request had been made for staff at Holland Park station to investigate the report, the train was not held in the platform for staff to respond. A traction motor on the train was later found to have suffered an electrical fault, known as a ‘flash-over’, which was the main cause of the smoke and smell.

A factor underlying the passengers’ response was the train operator’s lack of training and experience to deal with incidents involving the activation of multiple passenger emergency alarms.

 

[Mikey C]

A nightmare scenario really, masses of panicking people trying to escape onto the awful island platform

 

[Towers]

Classic example of mass panic. Not the first example of crowds of people acting inexplicably and won’t be the last.

I don’t think it’s inexplicable for people to have a compulsion to escape from a sealed environment in a perceived emergency?

A lack of egress equipment very obviously fails to take into account an emergency requiring rapid escape on a partially platformed train, and taking windows out is likely a safer option than a trainload of people stampeding to exit through the cab and ending up in a heap on the track.

 

[matt_world2004]

I don’t think it’s inexplicable for people to have a compulsion to escape from a sealed environment in a perceived emergency?

A lack of egress equipment very obviously fails to take into account an emergency requiring rapid escape on a partially platformed train, and taking windows out is likely a safer option than a trainload of people stampeding to exit through the cab and ending up in a heap on the track.

If there is what looks like smoke filling up the carriage, fire alarms going off and messages telling people to evacuate the train immediately it is not irrational to assume there is a fire.

 

[bramling]

I just saw this video posted 15 mins ago showing people smashing out the windows to get out of the Northern line train that is only partially in the platform (presumably the reason that doors weren't opened). Description says there was a fire on the train, location stated as Clapham Common.

I cannot see a similar thread on the forum, so I'm posting this one.

Instagram

www.instagram.com

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 May 2023 ==

TfL status currently states:

Northern Line: Severe delays due to an earlier fire alert at Clapham Common tickets are being accepted on London Trams, Southeastern, Thameslink and Buses via any reasonable route

Does make one wonder what all that lot would have done had the train stopped in the tunnel, where getting out through windows wouldn’t have been an option.

On LU the advice for “fire” is to move to another car. Failing that, the way out is through a driving cab, though if the driver at the front has his key in then it wouldn’t be possible to open the cab side doors.

 

[Mojo]

I don’t think it’s inexplicable for people to have a compulsion to escape from a sealed environment in a perceived emergency?

At least one of the videos that are circulating on Twitter has people asking others in the carriage asking others who are panicking what is going on and why they are panicking. It's also interesting that the people who are climbing through smashed windows appear to be in the rear car and thus would be right next to a door with a 'break glass in emergency' signed door.

 

[Towers]

Does make one wonder what all that lot would have done had the train stopped in the tunnel, where getting out through windows wouldn’t have been an option.

On LU the advice for “fire” is to move to another car. Failing that, the way out is through a driving cab, though if the driver at the front has his key in then it wouldn’t be possible to open the cab side doors.

But presumably escape is via the cab end door, which I imagine is unlocked at all times for precisely this reason?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 May 2023 ==

At least one of the videos that are circulating on Twitter has people asking others in the carriage asking others who are panicking what is going on and why they are panicking. It's also interesting that the people who are climbing through smashed windows appear to be in the rear car and thus would be right next to a door with a 'break glass in emergency' signed door.

You’re looking at this from a far more rational viewpoint than a trainload of people who think that their tube train is on fire!

 

[Sm5]

Does make one wonder what all that lot would have done had the train stopped in the tunnel, where getting out through windows wouldn’t have been an option.

On LU the advice for “fire” is to move to another car. Failing that, the way out is through a driving cab, though if the driver at the front has his key in then it wouldn’t be possible to open the cab side doors.

This would indeed be a very scary scenario, especially in rush hour.
breaking windows may not achieve much in a tunnel, and the third rail may be live too.

 

[Towers]

An awful lot on LUL seems to rely on a solid belief that there simply won’t be a fire - no extinguishers within the cars, no egress equipment, etc. All of that is fine, as long as there isn’t a fire. If people believe that there is, whether or not that belief is founded, the resulting mass panic to get out is inevitable!

 

[Edsmith]

Classic example of mass panic. Not the first example of crowds of people acting inexplicably and won’t be the last.

Hardly acting inexplicably, train filling with smoke and they can't get out.

 

[bramling]

But presumably escape is via the cab end door, which I imagine is unlocked at all times for precisely this reason?

Yes and yes (though good luck trying to open the door on a Jubilee Line train!).

However there’s a big but - egress through this door would not be easy in a station platform when positioned over the suicide pit. Likewise extremely dangerous with the traction current live.

Really the best bet is to wait for staff to use the butterfly cocks, though at many locations where platforms aren’t routinely manned this would take potentially a good couple of minutes or more to happen.

 

[c1995]

I was on a northbound train presumably behind this one just south of Clapham Common station. We were held in the tunnel for around 40 minutes with the traction current switched off. What added to confusion was there was also a fire alert at Morden 15 minutes prior and we were held at South Wimbledon pending the issue at Morden being resolved.

 

[bramling]

An awful lot on LUL seems to rely on a solid belief that there simply won’t be a fire - no extinguishers within the cars, no egress equipment, etc. All of that is fine, as long as there isn’t a fire. If people believe that there is, whether or not that belief is founded, the resulting mass panic to get out is inevitable!

Personally, I’ve always thought LU are - one day - going to get caught out by this. Trains don’t catch fire, but other things do, either something that someone has brought on to the train, or certainly there’s the potential for grease, dirt or detritus on the underside of the train to ignite, which has indeed happened. Also worth noting that breathing in the dust from brakes hanging on isn’t particularly healthy.

 

[Mojo]

Hardly acting inexplicably, train filling with smoke and they can't get out.

Except at the point the numerous videos were taken of people trying to force doors open, smash windows and climb through windows, there was no smoke evident.

This is not to say blame individuals involved, there have been numerous studies into the behaviour of crowds and this is something trained to people who work in key roles at locations such as festivals, football stadiums and indeed mass transit. Events in London in recent memory which highlighted this were the Uber driver on Exhibition Road that crashed into a bollard, the unknown incident on Oxford Street, and the fight at Bank station in Aug 2019 all of which people in their heads turned into terrorist attacks and caused people to do very silly things, without even realising why they were doing it.

 

[distinctratio]

Except at the point the numerous videos were taken of people trying to force doors open, smash windows and climb through windows, there was no smoke evident.

I really don't think people are going to wait until they see smoke to evacuate. The behaviour seen seems to be similar to fight or flight. Watching videos of the incident unfold may not seem as serious. But I can bet you if either of us was in that situation, I'm sure as hell we wouldn't be staying put there.

 

[SECR263]

I really don't think people are going to wait until they see smoke to evacuate. The behaviour seen seems to be similar to fight or flight. Watching videos of the incident unfold may not seem as serious. But I can bet you if either of us was in that situation, I'm sure as hell we wouldn't be staying put there.

RAIB should look at this incident and report soonest. They hopefully will look at what would have happened in the event of this really being a fire, look at TFL response on the day by staff, fire evacuation procedures, passenger behaviour, lack of recognition of escape actuation of doors etc etc. It's to serious to ignore. On another matter also how do you get out on to platforms with doors. I have seen no notices anywhere how to operate platform doors in an emergency.

 

[Chris M]

On another matter also how do you get out on to platforms with doors. I have seen no notices anywhere how to operate platform doors in an emergency.

On the track-side of every platform edge door there is a clearly marked emergency handle that can be used to open the door.

 

[petergb]

After an emergency stop the train doors are unlikely to line up with the platform doors, though.

 

[TRAX]

After an emergency stop the train doors are unlikely to line up with the platform doors, though.

The sections between the doors on platform screens are also doors, with an emergency exit bar to be pushed to open them.

 

[petergb]

The sections between the doors on platform screens are also doors, with an emergency exit bar to be pushed to open them.

Ah - thank you. That makes sense.

 

[Edsmith]

Except at the point the numerous videos were taken of people trying to force doors open, smash windows and climb through windows, there was no smoke evident.

This is not to say blame individuals involved, there have been numerous studies into the behaviour of crowds and this is something trained to people who work in key roles at locations such as festivals, football stadiums and indeed mass transit. Events in London in recent memory which highlighted this were the Uber driver on Exhibition Road that crashed into a bollard, the unknown incident on Oxford Street, and the fight at Bank station in Aug 2019 all of which people in their heads turned into terrorist attacks and caused people to do very silly things, without even realising why they were doing it.

What do you expect them to do, wait until the train fills with smoke? It could have been something very serious, fortunately it wasn't and hopefully some lessons will be learnt.

 

[Domh245]

Except at the point the numerous videos were taken of people trying to force doors open, smash windows and climb through windows, there was no smoke evident.

Visible smoke, sure, but you cannot see smells. I've been on a few northern line trains that have smelt smoldery and put me (and several others in the car) on edge.