PlusBus

[me123]

Today, I popped over to Livingston North, making use of the wonderful new Airdrie-Bathgate line. Anyone who knows Livingston will know that the station isn't particularly handy for very much, and I was also going to get a "PlusBus" ticket to let me get to the city centre. At £1.35 with my 16-25 railcard, I'd consider that good value.

I arrived at Blairhill in plenty of time, knowing fully well that the staff at Blairhill aren't fantastic at anything other than "a return to Glasgow". I asked for a return to Livingston North, with PlusBus and a 16-25 railcard. He seemed to understand; more than I was initially expecting. He then proceeded to scratch his head for a few minutes and advised me that, much to my surprise, the fare didn't exist. I asked him to try again; it clearly says on the PlusBus website that it's available at Livingston North, and that it's available on all Advance and Walk-Up tickets. He tried again, and couldn't do it. He said he could see the plus bus ticket, but he could get a fare from Blairhill to there. I decided just to give up and buy a return. When I got to Livingston, I was really annoyed to spend a total of £4 on the bus; more than double what it would have been if I'd got the PlusBus fare.

Is it just that the fares haven't been created for the new line, or have I been done (once again) by incompetent staff at Blairhill?

 

[WillPS]

Aren't PlusBus tickets usually issued as a separate ticket, e.g. Nottingham to Nottingham+bus? That's what I always get.

 

[transportphoto]

You seem to have been done again...

It should have been issued as the return to Livingston North & then a separate ticket for the plus bus (issued from: Livingston North to: H833 - LIVINGSTNN+BUS)

Id send off a letter to FSR asking for compensation for (at least) the extra you had to payout for the bus.

Aren't PlusBus tickets usually issued as a separate ticket, e.g. Nottingham to Nottingham+bus? That's what I always get.

Yep, see http://www.plusbus.info/how-issue

 

[radamfi]

Plusbus is normally issued as a separate ticket and does not need to be issued at the same time as the regular train ticket. So it sounded like he knew how to issue the Plusbus so he could easily have done that and issued you a regular train ticket as well.

Maybe the ticket seller on the train could have sold you a Plusbus if you just had a regular ticket.

 

[me123]

A complaint e-mail is on its way. It doesn't surprise me to be honest; I've long known that the staff at Blairhill are totally incompetent. I've never successfully managed to buy a season ticket there (there's always something goes wrong...).

 

[Jordy]

Incompetent seems a bit harsh, he did know of the tickets existence and did try to issue it...!

 

[LexyBoy]

You can also buy PlusBus, as an add-on to your ticket, at your destination, or any other station for that matter.

 

[me123]

Incompetent seems a bit harsh, he did know of the tickets existence and did try to issue it...!

I have had various dealings with them in the past; I'm not basing it just on this one incident! In the past, they've also managed to refuse to sell me a 2 month season ticket (because "that's not how it works"), attempted to sell anytime tickets with my railcard in the off-peak time (because "off-peak tickets can't be discounted"), refused to give me my railcard discount before 10am in August, and refused to sell me a ticket for a later date. And that's when the ticket office is actually open; it's usually closed for "essential station maintenance" (which seems to involve standing under the bridge examining the brickwork under the glow of a cigarette). And they've never issued a season ticket correctly first time around; there's always been something wrong (usually I'd want it to end on a Friday, but they insist on giving me one ending the Sunday after).

In general, I actually go to other stations for anything that isn't being done on the day (eg season tickets).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You can also buy PlusBus, as an add-on to your ticket, at your destination, or any other station for that matter.

Didn't know that at the time, but I will keep that in mind in the future! Most people wouldn't be expected to know that, even if they did know of PlusBus.

 

[Mojo]

The problem is that the +bus needs to be issued as a separate ticket, from LSN to H833.

 

[me123]

The problem is that the +bus needs to be issued as a separate ticket, from LSN to H833.

And the problem is that most travelers won't go up to the ticket office and tell staff to "issue a return to Livingston North, then a separate ticket from LSN to H833". I'll know for the future to tell them to issue it as a separate ticket (and I might actually get somewhere), but it's not my job to know how to issue tickets. Surely it's their job.

 

[jon0844]

To be fair to the member of staff, they USED to be on the same ticket. My season ticker for at least a year (maybe two) was HATFIELD + BUS to HADLEY WOOD, which may well have messed up long station names and even the encoding on the magstrip?

Now I have a regular season ticket without any mention of PlusBus and a separate PlusBus ticket (on a grey season ticket, not gold!) which is easier for bus drivers to read and accept. I did have problems previously as bus drivers tend to check, unlike RPIs who accept anything gold waved in front of them!

There was a crossover period I believe where some stations did it the old way, some the new.. but now I am sure everyone does a separate ticket - but what if the person selling tickets missed the memo and only issues one every ten years? I know from (bus) drivers by me that hardly anyone uses them.

 

[bb21]

To be fair to the member of staff, they USED to be on the same ticket.

Yes. They did.

There was a crossover period I believe where some stations did it the old way, some the new.. but now I am sure everyone does a separate ticket - but what if the person selling tickets missed the memo and only issues one every ten years? I know from (bus) drivers by me that hardly anyone uses them.

I guess that the through fares would have been removed from the database then? If they did that then the issuing person had always been briefed to issue plusbus separately.

 

[philjo]

To be fair to the member of staff, they USED to be on the same ticket. My season ticker for at least a year (maybe two) was HATFIELD + BUS to HADLEY WOOD, which may well have messed up long station names and even the encoding on the magstrip?

Now I have a regular season ticket without any mention of PlusBus and a separate PlusBus ticket (on a grey season ticket, not gold!) which is easier for bus drivers to read and accept.

That's interesting. My annual Potters Bar PlusBus ticket has always been issued on Gold Card stock (renewed at the same time as my annual season to Potters Bar)

It is much easier to read than the old WAGN predecessor version prior to Hertfordshire joining the national plusbus scheme - it was all on one ticket issued to POTTERSBARBUSPBR (there was also a PottersBarBusBPK version for train travel to Brookmans Park with the same bus validity!) - that one regularly caused arguments with bus drivers who also never believed the HCC/WAGN maps you showed them!

But it could be improved - e.g. could the PLusBus logo be printed (or PLUSBUS in large letters) at the bottom of the ticket like the LU symbol is printed on travelcards?

 

[jon0844]

A dedicated ticket to print on would certainly help.

Here's the two different types of ticket I've had:

 

[bb21]

A dedicated ticket to print on would certainly help.

Here's the two different types of ticket I've had:

View attachment 4610 View attachment 4611

Isn't the grey one just normal season stock anyway (for any period less than a year and minimum one month)?

That would mean that it was incorrect to issue annuals on them

 

[me123]

Isn't the grey one just normal season stock anyway (for any period less than a year and minimum one month)?

That would mean that it was incorrect to issue annuals on them

Any time I've had season tickets between one month and a year, it's always been light blue (or just plain old orange, but more often than not light blue). I've never seen a grey one before.

 

[bb21]

Any time I've had season tickets between one month and a year, it's always been light blue (or just plain old orange, but more often than not light blue). I've never seen a grey one before.

I'll scan one of my old grey ones on when I get a minute.

Here they are:

 

[jon0844]

Perhaps it is supposed to be on a Gold Card stock, but don't the ticket machines tell the person what type of stock to pick/use?

I'm not really fussed, given the fact I have a Gold Card above that gives me the discounts, and the local bus companies aren't going to give any discounts or benefits!

 

[me123]

I'll scan one of my old grey ones on when I get a minute.

Here they are:

They're dated back in 2006, and my observations were made more recently (2009 onwards). Things may have changed.

 

[bb21]

Fair enough. Could have changed.

 

[142094]

Isn't the grey one just normal season stock anyway (for any period less than a year and minimum one month)?

That would mean that it was incorrect to issue annuals on them

Half the time I think they just look at any blank ticket with the word season on it and issue it on that.

 

[me123]

Half the time, they just issue them on the orange stock. Besides, no-one really cares anyway. Passengers aren't likely to notice (Gold Card aside), and given that there's so much inconsistency the guards/TEs probably don't worry too much about it either.

EDIT: Found this post that shows you the colours. Seems like it was gray and has changed to light blue. Notice there also used to be a different colour for Advance tickets (perhaps a good thing to bring back, to help make the difference more noticable!), rail rovers (I've never seen one printed on anything other than orange stock nowadays) and excess fares.

 

[reb0118]

With regard to plusbus, as it has been previously stated, all plusbus tickets have to be issued as a separate ticket. There are a quite a few valid reasons for this inc making it easier for bus drivers to check but probably to stop people using the rtn portion of a SOR/SVR + BUS as a monthly season on the bus - yes it did happen!

You can also always buy plusbus tickets from the guard (or your case TE) on the train if you hold/or purchase a rail ticket from him

I don't work as far as Blairhill* - only to Bathgate and then only on the diesels but I can sell up to two or three plusbus tickets per train because I ask the pax "are you travelling further by train or bus?" when selling tickets.

Lots of maps/info to download on the www.plusbus.info site

* I've always found the chap at Blairhill very nice. Might have been the relief man though?

 

[me123]

* I've always found the chap at Blairhill very nice. Might have been the relief man though?

AFAIK, there's two chaps at Blairhill and a girl. The girl's really nice and helpful, one chap (the guy I bought it from) is actually very nice although doesn't seem to be very knowledgeable. The other guy really does have an attitude problem though; he doesn't seem to know how to do much else than a "return to Glasgow" and he once even refused to sell me a two month season ticket, and wasn't particularly nice about it. Although, to be fair, I did slightly aggravate him when I went down to Sunnyside, bought it there, and went back to show it to him.

 

[jon0844]

Out of interest, if you got your annual plusbus ticket on Gold Card stock, would you then be able to claim the 1/3 discount on the rail network, as having a Gold Card?

That then begs the question; can you get an annual plusbus ticket separate to a season ticket (or, in other words, NOT get the normal rail ticket). I say this because it's processed separately, so what would prevent it from being issued? I don't know if I was only able to get the plusbus add on after buying my rail season, or if the ticket is now a season ticket completely in its own right (not everyone necessarily knows this, but you can use the plusbus within the area covered, even if it's not to/from the station and you're not taking the train). Sure, it might breach some T&Cs somewhere, but nobody would know or enforce it as you could always argue you've come form, or are ultimately going to, your nominated train station.

If you do get an annual train ticket and an annual plus bus, then go and cancel your rail ticket - does your annual bus ticket become invalid? Surely not, if you've paid £380 for it?

I haven't done the maths, but £380 for a bus pass that you might be able to use locally - with 1/3 off rail fares, with no minimum charge, could be better than the trick of finding an annual season ticket somewhere that's very cheap to get Gold Card benefits.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Plusbus seasons can only be issued up to the expiry date of your rail season ticket, so if you had a yearly plusbus, you'd have a yearly season (from outside the plusbus area) with it.

 

[jon0844]

I thought that was the case, but what happens if you buy a season ticket - get the plusbus (issued separately) then cancel the rail ticket a day or tow later, get a refund (less admin fee).

Would they even know you got the plusbus portion? I don't have to show the rail ticket to the bus driver, so the question is whether anyone would accept a Gold Card bus ticket for the Gold Card discounts.

All of this is theoretical I might add, as I do actually need the rail ticket - or else there would be no point having the bus season!!

 

[reb0118]

I thought that was the case, but what happens if you buy a season ticket - get the plusbus (issued separately) then cancel the rail ticket a day or tow later, get a refund (less admin fee).

Would they even know you got the plusbus portion? I don't have to show the rail ticket to the bus driver, so the question is whether anyone would accept a Gold Card bus ticket for the Gold Card discounts.

All of this is theoretical I might add, as I do actually need the rail ticket - or else there would be no point having the bus season!!

It is my belief that the plusbus ticket is only valid if you hold a valid rail ticket. However you do not have to use your rail season ticket to make the plusbus valid just hold one.

 

[LexyBoy]

It is my belief that the plusbus ticket is only valid if you hold a valid rail ticket. However you do not have to use your rail season ticket to make the plusbus valid just hold one.

I'm pretty sure this is correct (though not explicitly stated), though as jonmorris0844 points out no-one would ever know if you did cancel the rail ticket after acquiring the PlusBus (unless a suspicious-minded railway employee was moonlighting on the buses, perhaps).

The system is clearly designed to prevent using PlusBus solely to get cheaper bus travel, which is why the rail ticket must have its origin or destination outside of the PlusBus area - so for example, Reading-Tilehurst wouldn't qualify (though oddly PB isn't available at Tilehurst, despite being covered by the Reading area).

 

[jon0844]

I'm not sure that the PlusBus season is much cheaper than a season ticket with the bus operator, but I guess that the PlusBus is the 'any permitted' equivalent that means you can use any, and every, operator - but only within the coverage area set out from the train station (which might be smaller than what Arriva, First or whoever might offer). So, swings and roundabouts.

Personally, I would have thought that the annual bus ticket that also gets you 1/3 off rail fairs with no minimum is what could be the clincher. Perhaps this is why my ticket was issued on a standard season ticket, not a Gold Card?

From the railway industry point of view, I doubt they'd care if you used them to get a cheap bus ticket. They must get a cut, presumably the TOC that 'owns' the station you get the ticket for, so even if you never set foot on a train - they've made some money from you. Why wouldn't they want to let you do this, or turn a blind-eye to it?