Contemporary buses you wish you'd traveled on

[Fleetmaster]

Which buses or bus services that existed in your era but which are now gone, do you wish you had traveled on?

My twenties coincided with Harris Bus running Friday night London super club specials using their relatively new Lakeside Link standard deckers. They were fittingly pretty cool kit iirc, something Optare or similar. I'd been on them in ordinary service, but with me having ready access to cars and trains and mate's flats to crash in, I never had the need to use them for going clubbing. It was most likely not nearly as sketchy or as spontaneously wild a ride as you might have hoped, and I'm quite sure they only did an up service not a down. But it would have been nice to find out.

I was a little less inclined to want to ride in the other club bus that seemed to be knocking around at the same time. An elderly ECW Olympian I think, it was in a mostly black livery including blacked out windows. The giant Club Class lettering rather gave the game away regarding its eventual destination. Most definitely sketchy.

I also never got to ride an ftr, although I have bagged enough ordinary artics. That almost makes it worse, given all the hype about it having a smoother tram like ride.

I'm quite annoyed at myself that those cute little Dennis Dominos and other early "midibuses" types all evaded me. No doubt it was because at the time they were around I was yet to learn of their significance.

 

[asw22]

I wish I'd have tried the 553/554/555 services that Huntingdon and District ran when under Blazefield ownership - I saw them regularly between 1999 and 2002. Looking back I could have used them from Cambridge to Huntingdon, then trains to Peterborough then Leeds instead of train via Ely.

 

[ChrisPJ]

I also never got to ride an ftr

You didn’t miss much, noisy with hard seats and definitely nothing like a tram ride. Nice and shiny when new but that was about it.

Are any left now?

 

[RELL6L]

I wish I had travelled on these buses:

• Bristol VRL
• Guy Wulfrunian
• Daimler Roadliner (I did travel on one hired in by London Country but have no memory of its unique vocal characteristics)
• Albion Viking

All of these were just still around when I started using buses.
I also under-appreciated some of the older models around then, Bedford OB, Bristol LS/MW/SC/SU, Leyland Tiger Cub and preferred more modern vehicles.
I barely rode on a Leyland Panther, I'd like to do that again.
Not sure I ever rode on a Guy Arab or a Crossley although a few were still around, Daimler CVG6s were getting pretty rare too.
Nor did I ever (as far as I know) use an RTL or RTW, they were just generic and very common RT types.

More modern but rare I never rode on a Dennis Domino or the obscure rear-engined Bedford JJL of which there were very few. Nor the Iveco double decker that ended up with Filers in Devon. I did ride a Neoplan, between Ellesmere and Oswestry of all places!

I am pleased I did use:

• Metro Scanias and Metropolitans - lots and lots
• Seddon Pennine RUs
• FRM1
• Fodens
• Rolls Royce engined Dennis Dominators in South Yorkshire
• Bristol REs!

Regarding places I have managed to travel almost anywhere and everywhere I've wanted but never managed the Cumbrian coast between Whitehaven, Millom and Barrow on a bus. Its very scenic on a train but there really isn't a bus option now.

 

[Fleetmaster]

Rolls Royce engined Dennis Dominators in South Yorkshire

I might have been on one as a youth without even knowing it! Maddening.

There's no other types I missed apart from really rare stuff, I just must have been very lucky with work and family travel. I've definitely missed more modern types as the electric stuff brings in new models and even marques.

 

[GusB]

I'm lucky enough in that there was much more variety when I was a bit younger, in terms of chassis types anyway (Alexander was as ubiquitous then as it is now!)

My local Scottish Bus Group company had Ford (R-series), Albion Viking, Leyland (Leopard, Tiger, National, Olympian), MCW (Metroliner), Daimler (Fleetline), Bristol (FLF). I'd loved to have had a run on the M-type coaches, particularly the Seddon and Bristol REMH varieties. I was just a bit too late for the Royal Tigers (original version) and the Leyland Cubs. AEC Reliances had gone, although I did manage a day trip on one just after it had been secured for preservation.

Sadly, I never had the chance to travel on one of the rear-engined Royal Tigers, despite there being two in the fleet. Another model I managed to avoid was the Duple 425, which looked very futuristic at the time.

 

[JD2168]

You didn’t miss much, noisy with hard seats and definitely nothing like a tram ride. Nice and shiny when new but that was about it.

Are any left now?

One is preserved at South Yorkshire Transport Trust in Rotherham along with a Leyland DAB bendy as well.

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I might have been on one as a youth without even knowing it! Maddening.

There's no other types I missed apart from really rare stuff, I just must have been very lucky with work and family travel. I've definitely missed more modern types as the electric stuff brings in new models and even marques.

One of the pleasures of being from South Yorkshire is have been on plenty of Dominators both with Rolls Royce & Gardener engines. One type I missed out on was a Bristol VR along with an original type Routemaster in normal passenger service in London.

 

[asw22]

There are several VRs in preservation that attend running days. Keighley and District pretty much moved their VRs on to other operators by 1990 so even though I probably travelled on some, I was too young to remember.

This is not my site but a number are in preservation.

VRs in Preservation

 

[Statto]

Me, i's the Metro Scanias, Metropolitans, & and Bristol VRTs brought by Merseyside PTE, i never got the chance to go on them in service with the PTE as i was too young to travel then, all were withdrawn by d, reg, some Bristol VRTs stayed local as they were brought by Fareway, & still never went on them, didn't realise the Bristols were ex MPTE.

Another note, some bus routes i whish i went on
North Western who briefly extended the 342, 552, 362, 372, St Helens to Chorley group of services, to become St Helens to Preston
North Western, Ribble joint service 761, 762 Liverpool to Blackpool
Crosville Wales Coastliner X1 Chester to Caernarfon, briefly X1 was extended at both ends to become Wrexham to Porthmadog, with an X4 Wrexham to Holyhead

In the early 90s their was a MTL, GM Buses bus war, Merseybus created some monster routes that i whish i went on
10 Liverpool to Manchester via St Helens, Ashton, Bolton
62 St Helens to Manchester via Wigan, & Leigh
510 Liverpool to Bolton via Wigan, & Atherton

 

[Tetchytyke]

I also never got to ride an ftr, although I have bagged enough ordinary artics. That almost makes it worse, given all the hype about it having a smoother tram like ride.

The FTR was just an Eclipse Fusion under all of the go-faster stripes. It was a nice bus just like the Eclipse Fusion was, but you’ve not missed much. The “lounge” area at the back was mostly irritating.

There aren’t many modern-era buses I’ve not been on. I’ve never been on a Temsa Avenue but I’m not sure I’m in any rush to.

I’ve never been on a Leyland Titan or a Scania Metropolitan and wish I had. But that’s about it. Yorkshire Rider Halifax swallowing up a load of GM rejects in the early 90s definitely helped tick off the buses.

 

[Flange Squeal]

I’ll probably get sectioned for this but I quite like niche vehicles, including things many would describe as not a proper bus such as the diddy little (usually) free-to-use town/city centre shuttle buses you see across mainland Europe. Usually penetrating into tight streets normal buses can’t reach, or just an inner-city loop link.

Along these lines, Merseyside enjoyed (endured?) some funky looking tri-axle Technobus Pantheon battery minibuses in the early 2000s which I wouldn’t have minded travelling on for the novelty. I believe one may be preserved locally to their St Helens stomping ground, although whether it sees use or is just a static exhibit I don’t know. They were even left hand drive!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There aren’t many modern-era buses I’ve not been on. I’ve never been on a Temsa Avenue but I’m not sure I’m in any rush to.

I think you'd be surprised. They're not the worst buses I've ever travelled on - certainly no looker but not bad.

I’ve never been on a Leyland Titan or a Scania Metropolitan and wish I had.

The Scania Metropolitan is one that has been mentioned a few times and they escaped me; probably the most obvious example

As for the Titan, depends which one you mean? The half cab version or the overly engineered one that London took in numbers but no one else did?



For me, the ones that I never travelled on but really should have were in Darlington... Seddon RUs and Ward Dalesmans.

 

[Fleetmaster]

Scania Metropolitan is another that I know I've been on as a kid but well before I was interested in how it rode or sounded.

The Titan B.15 was exactly as advertised, you could tell exactly where the extra money and design effort had gone (ride, power, smoothness of acceleration and box). The fact that in the right hands they lasted twenty plus years without becoming blue smoke belching rust buckets like many of their younger stable mates, shows this was an opportunity missed, or rather dashed by deregulation and industrial relations.

 

[LUYMun]

The Titan B.15 was exactly as advertised, you could tell exactly where the extra money and design effort had gone (ride, power, smoothness of acceleration and box). The fact that in the right hands they lasted twenty plus years without becoming blue smoke belching rust buckets like many of their younger stable mates, shows this was an opportunity missed, or rather dashed by deregulation and industrial relations.

It's more of a case where Leyland got too far in touch with London Transport, resulting in specific mechanical parts making up the Titan, something that municipal (non-London) operators did not have the luxury of. It's no surprise that the Titan barely sold, if any, to non-London operators when new - a stark contrast to the National model and the Olympian chassis, both of which sold like hotcakes. A shame really, as the Titan is a really nice bus on itself.

 

[Tetchytyke]

As for the Titan, depends which one you mean? The half cab version or the overly engineered one that London took in numbers but no one else did?

Definitely the later Titan, I’m far too young to consider the original Titan a “contemporary” bus!

It also turns out I was wrong, as I’ve actually been on a roofless Titan in the Lake District up to Seatoller.

 

[Geordie driver]

I am not a bus enthusiast but even I can remember the Scania metropolitan from when I was a child, it was like something from the future, so smooth and fast.

If you have never been on one, it's worth seeking out.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The fact that in the right hands they lasted twenty plus years without becoming blue smoke belching rust buckets like many of their younger stable mates, shows this was an opportunity missed, or rather dashed by deregulation and industrial relations.

The Titan's fate wasn't dashed by deregulation. It was beset by poor productivity at Park Royal so firms that had placed large orders simply went elsewhere. West Midlands PTE had 80 on order but only received 5. Merseyside didn't get any of their 50. Can't remember how many Greater Manchester expected but only received 15.

It's goose was cooked by 1981 as the Olympian had many of the same features but was notably cheaper and was lowbridge so appealed to the NBC provincial fleets.

 

[GusB]

The Titan's fate wasn't dashed by deregulation. It was beset by poor productivity at Park Royal so firms that had placed large orders simply went elsewhere. West Midlands PTE had 80 on order but only received 5. Merseyside didn't get any of their 50. Can't remember how many Greater Manchester expected but only received 15.

It's goose was cooked by 1981 as the Olympian had many of the same features but was notably cheaper and was lowbridge so appealed to the NBC provincial fleets.

The Greater Manchester order was for 190 Titans with only 15 delivered.*

Productivity improved vastly once it moved to Workington (Eastern Coach Works was briefly considered), but it was definitely too late by then. As you say, the Olympian was less expensive and was available with low-height bodies. Let's also not forget that many operators had long-standing relationships with certain body manufacturers and, at the time, integral construction wasn't as popular as it is now.

* Doug Jack, "Beyond Reality - Leyland Bus, the Twilight Years", p.84

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Greater Manchester order was for 190 Titans with only 15 delivered.*

Productivity improved vastly once it moved to Workington (Eastern Coach Works was briefly considered), but it was definitely too late by then. As you say, the Olympian was less expensive and was available with low-height bodies. Let's also not forget that many operators had long-standing relationships with certain body manufacturers and, at the time, integral construction wasn't as popular as it is now.

* Doug Jack, "Beyond Reality - Leyland Bus, the Twilight Years", p.84

Thanks for that added info - I knew it was a sizeable order. By the time production had moved to Workington, they'd missed their opportunity. Think the bad press was a factor as some of the potential major customers still hadn't settled on their replacement for ordering Atlanteans and indeed, Merseyside and GM continued to receive them for a few more years.

The bodybuilder argument is also important with many local political considerations. GMPTE was a shareholder in Northern Counties (and even took Metrobuses with NC bodies), West Midlands supported MCW because of the Washwood Heath factory. Scottish operators tended to purchase Alexander (though a good few ECW bodies also headed North of the years). CH Roe was at Crossgates in Leeds so that was West Yorkshire's preferred choice. Arguably, it was London Transport who dealt a blow with the dual sourcing of Metrobuses and Titans. Had they just gone for Titans, production delays would've meant they'd never have had enough new buses and were probably cautious after the DMS debacle.

 

[Ken H]

Thanks for that added info - I knew it was a sizeable order. By the time production had moved to Workington, they'd missed their opportunity. Think the bad press was a factor as some of the potential major customers still hadn't settled on their replacement for ordering Atlanteans and indeed, Merseyside and GM continued to receive them for a few more years.

The bodybuilder argument is also important with many local political considerations. GMPTE was a shareholder in Northern Counties (and even took Metrobuses with NC bodies), West Midlands supported MCW because of the Washwood Heath factory. Scottish operators tended to purchase Alexander (though a good few ECW bodies also headed North of the years). CH Roe was at Crossgates in Leeds so that was West Yorkshire's preferred choice. Arguably, it was London Transport who dealt a blow with the dual sourcing of Metrobuses and Titans. Had they just gone for Titans, production delays would've meant they'd never have had enough new buses and were probably cautious after the DMS debacle.

Charlie Roes was part of Park Royal. Post WW2 there was an attempt of an AEC /Park Royal Roe joint venture.
Quite a few Leeds buses were Park Royal, despite the original order being with Roe.

Lets not forget the Tilling Bristol/Eastern Coach Works (Lowestoft) where most of the Tilling buses were made. The MW's, Lodekkas, RE's and VR's

 

[PG]

Definitely the later Titan, I’m far too young to consider the original Titan a “contemporary” bus!

Same here. One thing I've always been curious about is why the rather small lower deck rear window was offset to, IIRC, the nearside instead of being centred? Presumably dictated by the underbonnet mechanicals...

 

[Statto]

One bus type i never traveled on were the batch of Neoplan N4009s that MTL Merseybus had. They were originally bought for the Smart cross Liverpool City Centre services that Merseytravel launched in the early 90s. The tender went to Arriva in 98 (this was before Arriva bought MTL), so the Neoplans were transferred to the 18A route, which is where they mostly stayed, although a few did stray onto other routes until Arriva withdrew the Neoplans.

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One route i never went on when i had the chance to go on it, & wish i did go on it, was Crosville Cymru 100 Conwy to Talacre known as the Happy Dragon, a seasonal service that ran April to September, & in March, if Easter fell in March, normally allocated to open top buses on not so rainy days, frequency was every 30 minutes with buses taking just over 2 hours