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First Glasgow bans school pupils from local service

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Flange Squeal

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It seems that nobody has actually read what I had posted earlier in the thread.

Many assumptions have been made in the course of this discussion, one of them being that I'm a bus driver; I'm not, but having to deal with obnoxious people is not solely the preserve of bus drivers.

For the avoidance of doubt:
  • I do not condone anti-social behaviour on buses
  • The remedy is to bring the relevant parties together, be it schools, the bus company, police and parents
  • All we know about this situation is what the Clydebank Post has reported; there's bound to be more to this than what we've read so far
I stand by my view that a blanket ban on all pupils from a particular school is unnecessary, unfair and probably unworkable.
  • You cannot assume that everyone is responsible for anti-social behaviour and, therefore, collective punishment is inappropriate.
  • It should not be assumed that someone who is aware of the anti-social behaviour of others is going to "grass" on their peers - surely the implications of this should be fairly obvious
  • Someone attending the school may not necessarily live "nearby" - ie, within walking distance
  • If the bus company applies a ban to one particular route, how are they going to enforce it on another nearby route? How do they identify that the people concerned attend that particular school?
I guess people assumed you were a bus driver because you've been saying how you think things would pan out, rather than listening to bus drivers on how such instances actually tend to go in reality. We also have @PaulMc7 who has said they have first-hand experience of the route as a passenger. I totally agree that the remedy is bringing the relevant parties together (not your previous plan of relying on the public to "deal with it") and them sorting it collectively, but the news article does directly quote a First representative who said they've been liaising with the school for "months" and also campus police. One can therefore probably safely take from that that First Glasgow have actually already tried involving other parties to help resolve the issues but to no avail, hence taking this more drastic approach for a single day. It's clearly not in a business' interest to turn away paying customers, nor attract bad publicity, so it won't have been something done on a whim. The fact it was for one day shows it was probably never intended to be an actual solution to the problem, I'd suspect more to highlight the issue and hope that might help kick start some serious efforts to resolve the issues. It as likely that it would end up in the local press looking bad for them, but that that publicity would inevitably also see the school's name mentioned so perhaps a hope that risk to their reputation might also encourage ramping up of any help to stop things spiralling further.

Clearly we don't know exactly what sort of behaviour has been taking place, but examples of not uncommon things I've had on school buses (or regular routes that carry a school flow on some journeys) can range from more minor annoyances such as the usual school bus mess and students shouting/screaming obscenities to eachother, to more major risks such as playing with the emergency exit door or upper deck rear window and throwing 'missiles' down the bus. In the case of the latter two, if this is the sort of behaviour that has been happening here and as not to inconvenience others they just carried on running the buses with that sort of thing happening, if/when it ever got to the point where a child was injured by a missile or falling from the emergency exit door/window then First would understandably be asked why they let it continue if they knew it was going on. Whatever the case, once can only hope that all parties involved - from students and parents through to the school administration - will now see that it's reached a stage where something needs to be done and First are serious in their need to deal with it once and for all. Hopefully whatever liaisons had been happening previously will step up in seriousness accordingly.

I guess it could loosely be compared to when people decide to throw things at buses to smash their windows as some kind of sport, and the company has to punish everyone in a certain area by diverting the buses for an evening/longer period. Everyone gets punished due to the actions of a tiny minority, but sometimes taking drastic action is the only way to get your point noticed and hopefully attract the attention required to help deal with it.
 
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AlterEgo

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Saga do it by not letting anyone under 50 (except a 40+ companion of a 50+ year old) travel on board their cruise ships, so First choosing to not allow people under a certain age (and at that limited to a certain school, not everyone below a certain age) on board their buses is surely similar in principle?
It’s not. Public transport isn’t a holiday - it’s public transport - and the reasoning for the ban is simply because the behaviour of some parts of a demographic are being mapped onto every member of that demographic. Try a sign saying “no Irish travellers on the bus”. We are a very anti-child society and it’s miserable, even if it is legal.
 
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GusB

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I guess people assumed you were a bus driver because you've been saying how you think things would pan out, rather than listening to bus drivers on how such instances actually tend to go in reality.
I've been on this planet for nearly fifty years. During much of that time, my primary means of getting about had been by bus, including my journeys to and from school. Do not insult me by suggesting that I dont know what I'm talking about simply because I'm not the one behind the wheel.
We also have @PaulMc7 who has said they have first-hand experience of the route as a passenger. I totally agree that the remedy is bringing the relevant parties together (not your previous plan of relying on the public to "deal with it") and them sorting it collectively, but the news article does directly quote a First representative who said they've been liaising with the school for "months" and also campus police.
Did you actually read my previous posts in the thread? If so, you'd have read that my view was to engage with the relevant parties.
 

Flange Squeal

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I've been on this planet for nearly fifty years. During much of that time, my primary means of getting about had been by bus, including my journeys to and from school. Do not insult me by suggesting that I dont know what I'm talking about simply because I'm not the one behind the wheel.

Did you actually read my previous posts in the thread? If so, you'd have read that my view was to engage with the relevant parties.
I never said that you don’t know what you are talking about, merely added some first hand experiences as a modern day driver. It may well be that the general behaviour of some school children now is different to when you were travelling as a school child child yourself between thirty to fifty years ago. My apologies if you don’t like hearing other people’s views and experiences should they differ from your own, but my understanding of a forum was to discuss subjects and sharing experiences and differing opinions is surely part of that? It’s a simple fact, whether you like it or not, that verbally asking people to do things simply doesn’t work in many situations, including this scenario, without back up from someone in authority. As described in my post where I had to get an headteacher involved. And yes I did read your previous post, hence my reply to you (even included in your quote) said “I totally agree”.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

It’s not. Public transport isn’t a holiday - it’s public transport - and the reasoning for the ban is simply because the behaviour of some parts of a demographic are being mapped onto every member of that demographic. Try a sign saying “no Irish travellers on the bus”. We are a very anti-child society and it’s miserable, even if it is legal.
But if a child should fall from a moving vehicle having been playing with the emergency door/window or injured by a missile thrown around the bus, I’d be willing to bet people would then criticise the bus company for having not done something to stop it happening. Particularly if trouble on said route was a known issue, as it seems to be here. Or even if the antisocial behaviour is something less serious like just leaving the bus filthy or damaging/graffitiing the inside, people will complain about “the state of X’s buses is disgusting”. They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Note also that it wasn't every member of a demographic - it was just those from a single school. Other children were fine to travel. Unlike Saga where their ban applies to everyone, presumably because they've mapped everyone under that age to not fit in with their expectations.

One can therefore only hope that now First have made the issue public, and the school’s name is also now out there in the media, that the parties concerned may now work harder together to sort the issues after what sounds like “months” of liaising that hasn’t proved fruitful to date. I think that’s something we can all agree on.
 
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Martin1988

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I remember a few years ago being at a bus stop in the Bristol region at the same time as a load of pupils from the nearby school were waiting to board. Not sure what happened but one or two of the passengers had engaged in some sort of misbehaviour (I think they had been abusive to a member of the public) and a member of staff who was there was telling them off and advising them they were going to be reported to the school the next morning.

I don't think outright banning all pupils during the middle of the day was he right option unless a particularly significant incident which warrented it had taken place.
 

NorthernSpirit

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... clearly unruly children seem likely to respond to a verbal request where you are, based on what you say stands a good chance of happening, more so than they are in the various parts of the UK I've had the pleasure of driving buses. What would you say your success rate is with the verbal method in your experience as a driver, and passengers successfully encouraging the person to leave vs starting on you or resorting to getting physical? Genuinely interested if I've just been unfortunate with areas I've worked.
Round my way, notibly Calderdale and Kirklees, some of the kids behave quite feral. We've all heard of that kid that was stabbed and later died outside of a school in Huddersfield but no one has the balls to report the unruly child as they feel that they'll have their windows put through if they did. God knows how the drivers cope having to deal with dreadful behaviour of a few who want to ruin it for others.

I've once had one kid pull a knife out on me and threatened to use it. As an adult I am unable to do anything other than walk away, but what happens if they (the oik) decided to shove me to the ground? I can't fight back unless I want to end up before a judge and it'd be pointless reporting it as once the snotty nosed oik has turned 18, their record is wiped regardless of what they have done prior.

In this instance I cannot blame First Glasgow doing what it has done and would be happy to see this rolled out across the country as it would weed out the feral cleatuses.
 

AdamWW

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Saga do it by not letting anyone under 50 (except a 40+ companion of a 50+ year old) travel on board their cruise ships, so First choosing to not allow people under a certain age (and at that limited to a certain school, not everyone below a certain age) on board their buses is surely similar in principle?

Saga don't register their cruises as public transport though, do they?

Despite bus deregulation there is still regulation. Once a scheduled route and timetable is registered I believe there is an obligation to run it. Can the operator then start making their own rules on who is allowed on the bus?
 

Flange Squeal

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Saga don't register their cruises as public transport though, do they?

Despite bus deregulation there is still regulation. Once a scheduled route and timetable is registered I believe there is an obligation to run it. Can the operator then start making their own rules on who is allowed on the bus?
RE Saga, no they obviously don't. It was more just giving an example of where an outright blanket ban on people of a certain age was widely accepted.

RE the single day First Glasgow ban of the school's students, I wouldn't have thought it was formally allowed in regards to publicly registered bus services, no. Even the company's own Conditions of Carriage (reproduced below or available by clicking here) make no mention or threat of such action - just action against individuals responsible for behaviour deemed unacceptable to them (which is fair enough). Most likely this was just a case of trying to do something to highlight the issue and get it taken more seriously, out of some sort of last ditch desperation. The level of notice - between dropping them off and then refusing to pick them up in the afternoon - makes me wonder if the final straw was something that happened that morning. It's a shame there was no elaboration of what exactly the problems have been to give some sort of perspective and understanding. I'd imagine the local Traffic Commissioner is most likely aware from the publicity though, so I guess we'll see in time if any formal regulatory action (or legal if pursued by any other affected party?) follows as a result of them doing this.

First Glasgow (No.1) Limited and First Glasgow (No.2) Limited, 100
Cathcart Road, Glasgow, G42 7BH
LIABILITY AND COMPLAINTS
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CONDITIONS OF TRAVEL
Page 1 of 19
ISSUE DATE: MARCH 2021
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for travel on our services. This only applies where advertised locally and subject
to any specific local conditions.
SAVER, MULTI-JOURNEY AND SEASON TICKETS
4.34. We offer a wide range of discounted tickets to suit our customers’ needs for
variable periods of travel.
4.35. These tickets, and any passes, permits and tickets issued by us, other operators
or other issuing authorities are accepted by us subject to their conditions
of issue and use. Where the use of a ticket requires the presentation of an
accompanying photographic identification card, we will not accept the ticket
as valid for travel unless you also present that accompanying photographic
identification card.
4.36. If misuse or fraud is suspected, a Customer may be asked for proof of identity
and his/her ticket or pass may be withdrawn, in which case the Customer may
be required to pay the Standard Fare. In addition, we may charge the value of
any period of misuse. No refund will be made in respect of any outstanding
value in the withdrawn ticket or pass.
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CHILD AND STUDENT FARES
4.37. Up to two children under five years old will be carried free-of-charge provided
that they do not occupy a seat required by an adult passenger and are
accompanied by a fare-paying Customer who is responsible for them. Additional
children, or children under five occupying a seat required by an adult, may be
charged as if they were aged five or over.
4.38. Fare schemes for children aged five or over and students vary and full details
can be found on our website. Individuals who are unable to provide proof of
their age and/or student status on request from the driver or a Company official
may be required to pay the applicable adult fare. Any valid documentation
bearing a photograph of the Customer, including valid proof of age ID cards
(available free of charge in many areas), will be accepted in these circumstances.
UNPAID FARES: CHILDREN & VULNERABLE ADULTS
4.39. Children aged under 16 and those people who, in the reasonable opinion of the
driver, are vulnerable, at risk or in distress, and are unable to pay their fare will
be carried at all times. They may be asked to provide their name and address in
order that the fare due could be collected at a later date. In these circumstances,
the driver will issue a single ticket for one journey allowing the individual to
travel to their home or the nearest stop thereto.
5 WHEELCHAIRS, MOBILITY SCOOTERS AND PUSHCHAIRS
GENERAL
5.1. We will always try to use low-floor and/or wheelchair accessible vehicles
wherever possible. However, there may be occasions when we cannot do so
for technical, operational or other reasons. We reserve the right to substitute
without notice a low-floor or wheelchair accessible vehicle with another type of
vehicle, at our absolute discretion.
5.2. Provided they meet the size and weight limits set out below and there is
sufficient space, we are able to accommodate one wheelchair or mobility
scooter on buses built to the Public Service Vehicle Accessibility Regulations
2000 (PSVAR). On some of our vehicles, it may be possible to accommodate an
additional mobility scooter in a designated buggy/scooter space. Signage on the
vehicle will make clear where there is a designated buggy/scooter space. We
cannot accommodate wheelchairs or mobility scooters on vehicles that do not
have the appropriate facilities.
5.3. We cannot carry wheelchairs or mobility scooters which, combined with the
weight of the occupant, are heavier than the safe working limit of the wheelchair
ramp (in general, the safe working limit is 300kg of total weight although the
driver will always have the discretion to evaluate and determine whether the
maximum weight limit is likely to be exceeded in the circumstances).
5.4. Our drivers are required (and trained) to provide reasonable assistance to
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wheelchair users or disabled Customers. Inconsiderate car parking or other
factors may prevent the vehicle from being positioned sufficiently close to the
kerb to allow a wheelchair user to get on or off safely. In this case the driver will
try to identify a safe place to pull in as close to the bus stop as possible.
5.5. It is the Customer’s responsibility to ensure that their wheelchair, mobility
scooter, pram or pushchair is safely positioned within the designated area and
that they adhere to any notices applicable to that area and ensure that it does
not obstruct or block any exit or gangway.
5.6. In the unlikely event that your wheelchair or other mobility equipment or
assistive device is damaged or lost as a result of our negligence during the
course of the journey, we will provide compensation up to the cost of repair or
replacement in accordance with EU Regulation 181/2011.
WHEELCHAIRS
5.7. Wheelchair users have priority over everyone else for the use of the designated
wheelchair space, since this is the only place in which they can travel safely.
Non-wheelchair users, unlike wheelchair users, will normally have a choice
about which part of the bus to sit or stand in. Common decency and respect
for wheelchair users should mean that Customers without disabilities make
way for them wherever reasonable to do so. Customers are required to offer
reasonable cooperation in allowing proper use of the designated wheelchair
area. If someone in a wheelchair wishes to get on and there is space elsewhere
on the vehicle, Customers will be required by the driver to vacate the space
provided it is reasonable for them to do so, including repositioning small prams
or mobility scooters where possible and folding any buggies and storing these
in the luggage space where available. However, no-one already travelling will be
asked to get off the bus in order to accommodate a wheelchair user.
5.8. The dimensions of the wheelchair space permit the carriage of a wheelchair no
longer than 1200mm and no wider than 700mm (the dimensions of a standard
‘reference’ wheelchair as specified in the Public Service Vehicle Accessibility
Regulations 2000).
MOBILITY SCOOTERS
5.9. We are committed to the CPT Code for Mobility Scooters and adhere to its
requirements throughout our UK Bus business. Mobility scooters are carried
subject to the requirements of the CPT Code. In particular, users will not be
permitted to bring their mobility scooter onto the vehicle unless they show the
driver a valid ‘permit to travel’ issued under the CPT Code.
5.10. We accept Class 2 mobility scooters (as designated by the Department for
Transport) provided the mobility scooter does not exceed 1000mm long and
600mm wide with a maximum turning circle of 1200mm.
PUSHCHAIRS AND PRAMS
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5.11. When not occupied by a wheelchair or mobility scooter user, the wheelchair
space on most vehicles can accommodate up to two small prams or normalsized unfolded pushchairs. Some vehicles also have additional pushchair
capacity in a dedicated ‘buggy area’. The driver will be able to tell you where
a pushchair or pram can be safety accommodated. You should follow their
instructions.
5.12. Empty pushchairs or pushchairs carrying luggage must be folded and
accommodated in appropriate luggage areas where safe to do so and with
consideration for other Customers and their belongings. We will not accept
liability for loss of or damage to pushchairs and prams.
6 CONDUCT OF CUSTOMERS
6.1. When travelling on our vehicles, you are subject to these Conditions. Failure
to comply with the Conditions (or the general law) may result in us refusing to
permit you to travel or continue to travel. In particular, you must not:
(a) behave in a manner which may reasonably be expected to cause any
person to be alarmed, upset, offended or annoyed, or which may reasonably
be expected to cause a nuisance or inconvenience to any Customer, driver or
company official (including, without limitation, the use of obscene or offensive
language or behaving in a manner that is abusive or threatening).
(b) speak to the driver whilst the bus is in motion, stand forward of the cab area,
obstruct the driver’s vision or otherwise cause the driver to be distracted while
driving, except in an emergency or for reasons of safety;
(c) obstruct any emergency or other exits,
(d) stand on the upper deck or any step leading to the upper deck of any
doubledeck vehicle while it is in motion (except for the purposes of getting on or
off the vehicle);
(e) use any door for a purpose other than as indicated by a notice, unless
directed to by the driver or a Company official;
(f) throw or trail any article from the vehicle;
(g) remain on the vehicle when directed to leave by the driver, or a Company
official;
(h) smoke at any time in any part of the vehicle or carry any lit pipe, cigar,
cigarette (including ‘electronic cigarettes’), match or lighter on the vehicle;
(i) play or operate any musical equipment or instruments (including radios,
mobile phones, MP3 devices etc) on vehicles at a volume that is likely to cause
annoyance to other Customers;
Page 11 of 19
(j) wear soiled clothing which might stain or damage the vehicle fittings or other
Customers’ clothing;
(k) deliberately interfere with any equipment fitted to the vehicle; or
(l) carry any bulky or cumbersome article, or any article or substance which is
likely to cause annoyance or risk of injury to any person on the vehicle, or risk
of damage to the vehicle or to the property or clothing of any person on the
vehicle.
6.2. If you are in breach of any of the above Conditions you will be required to give
your name and address to a Company official (including the driver) and may
be removed from the vehicle by a Company official (including the driver), a
police officer or a community support officer. You will be refused further travel
without refund.
6.3. In addition, you must:
(a) comply with all reasonable instructions given by the driver (and any other
member of the Company);
(b) comply with all notices and legal signage displayed on the vehicle (including,
without limitation, in relation to limits on numbers of permitted standing and
total passengers and signage imposing stricter conditions then those specified
in condition 6.1 above, such as a total prohibition of food consumption where
specified);
(c) have due regard at all times for the needs of our elderly, young, or disabled
Customers and Customers with reduced mobility and, in particular, vacate seats
and spaces designed for the elderly, disabled and Customers with reduced
mobility when requested; and
(d) take reasonable care to ensure that persons, animals or property within your
control do not cause loss, injury or damage to property or persons.
And you must not:
(e) obstruct the vehicle entrance next to the driver, gangways, or any part of the
vehicle where standing is not allowed (signs are in place to indicate standing
capacity and restrictions) or other locations on the bus in any way that would
inhibit safety;
(f) lean out of the vehicle;
(g) deliberately damage or deface any part of the vehicle;
(h) take part in any form of criminal activity while on the vehicle;
(i) consume any type of alcohol while on the vehicle;
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(j) carry or consume any items of food or drink which in the opinion of the driver
may make other Customers’ journeys unpleasant or otherwise cause offence, or
which is likely to cause a spillage of any food or drink inside the vehicle;
(k) leave rubbish or discarded items on the vehicle;
(l) wear roller skates, roller blades or unsuitable footwear, or use scooters or
skateboards on the vehicle;
(m) carry any soiled items which might stain or damage the vehicle fittings or
other Customers’ clothing;
(n) allow small children to be uncontrolled at any point when using our vehicles;
(o) sell, or offer for sale, any item, or collect for charity without our prior written
consent;
(p) distribute/display printed or similar matter of any description or distribute
any article for the purpose of advertising, or otherwise approach other
Customers for any commercial or similar purpose without our prior written
consent;
(q) canvass or survey any Customers without our prior written consent;
6.4. If you are in breach of any of these further Conditions (or the general law) you
will be asked to give your name and address to a Company official (including the
driver) and may be asked to leave the vehicle or removed from our premises
by a Company official (including the driver), or removed from vehicle by a
police officer or a community support officer. You will be refused further travel
without refund.
6.5. We also reserve the right to take any other measures we consider necessary to
protect the safety and comfort of our Customers and staff including temporarily
or permanently banning you from travelling with us following an incident of
misconduct. Intending passengers who in the opinion of the driver appear likely
to behave in an inappropriate manner or to be under the influence of alcohol,
drugs or solvents may not be permitted to travel.
6.6. Whilst we will do everything that we reasonably can to control the conduct of
other Customers on our buses, we cannot be held responsible for their conduct.
7 LUGGAGE
7.1. Where permitted, luggage is carried free of charge at the driver’s discretion.
In the interests of safety and for the comfort of all our Customers, we reserve
the right to refuse or restrict the size, amount and type of luggage or other
belongings that you can bring on our buses. In particular, the driver may refuse
to accept any item being brought onto the bus or coach and/or may refuse travel
Page 13 of 19
to any passenger if he/she believes that:
(a) there is insufficient space available for carriage of your luggage and/or you
are carrying excessive amounts of luggage (to be determined at the driver’s
discretion);
(b) you are carrying items which may cause inconvenience, or present a danger
or discomfort to other passengers or cause damage to their property or to the
vehicle; or
(c) you are carrying items which may block any designated wheelchair or
pushchair space, gangway or exit.
7.2. Subject to our statutory obligations (including, without limitation, pursuant to
EU Regulation 181/2011 and associated national legislation), we cannot be held
liable for any inconvenience or loss caused to a Customer if they are refused
travel under these circumstances or if their luggage or belongings are damaged
or lost whilst on the bus.
7.3. On certain long distance services operated by coaches, larger bags and suitcases
may be carried in the rear or underfloor lockers as necessary and as space
permits. Any such baggage should be clearly labelled.
7.4. You remain responsible at all times for the safe carriage, stability and handling
of any items you bring on board. Fragile items such as electronic goods, portable
televisions, computers, radios etc will only be carried if they are of reasonable
size and securely packed. Luggage is carried at your risk and we accept no
liability for any loss or damage to you or any third party, however caused.
7.5. We will not carry explosive or combustible material (including unsealed heavy
batteries and petrol), accumulators, explosives, ammunition, weapons, paint in
either unsealed containers or containers exceeding 3 litres, dangerous, illegal,
offensive or otherwise hazardous items under any circumstances. The above list
is not exhaustive and the carriage of items is at the sole discretion of the driver.
7.6. We will permit the carriage of a single portable oxygen cylinder or unit for
personal medical reasons.
7.7. Where we accept the carriage of oxygen cylinders, paint, chemicals or any other
liquids or substances on our vehicles, you must ensure that such substances
are in proper containers which are sealed and are kept upright and secure
throughout the journey. You will be liable for any damage caused to the vehicle
or other Customer’s belongings due to spillage or leakage of any liquid or
substance carried.
7.8. Folding bicycles and non-motorised folding scooters are permitted on board our
buses, provided that they are stowed safely and that they do not block the aisles
or access to seats. Electric scooters are not permitted to be brought on board
(but see paragraphs 5.9-5.10 above for mobility scooters). While we will make
every effort to carry folding bicycles, there are instances when this may not be
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possible, including:
(a) if there is insufficient space on the bus; or
(b) if your folding bicycle is likely to make the inside of the bus or its seats dirty,
and/or could cause discomfort to other Customers.
7.9. Due to space and safety considerations, standard non-folding bicycles cannot be
carried inside our buses.
8 DOGS AND OTHER ANIMALS
8.1. We will carry Assistance Dogs (or other legitimate assistance animals) of any size
free of charge at any time on our vehicles, both when accompanying a registered
disabled person and when being trained by a trainer bearing the appropriate
valid identification.
8.2. Except in the case of a registered disabled person, or trainer, accompanied by an
Assistance Dog or other assistance animal, only one dog or small animal may be
carried per Customer (at the driver’s discretion).
8.3. All dogs must be kept on leads at all times and dogs must be muzzled where
they are likely to be dangerous or where this is legally required in accordance
with the Dangerous Dogs Act or other equivalent legislation. Small animals
must be caged, boxed or kept on a lead. Any animal carried must remain under
control and must not be allowed to sit on the seats.
8.4. Customers are responsible for the behaviour of their animals at all times, and
for any damage or injury they may cause to any person, or the property of any
person (including Company property), on the vehicle. In cases where animals
cause a nuisance or inconvenience to other Customers, Customers may be
asked to leave the vehicle. A charge will be made for cleaning the vehicle if any
animal should soil the vehicle and for repairs should any damage be caused. We
cannot be held liable for any inconvenience or loss caused to a Customer if they
are refused travel or asked to leave under these circumstances.
9 CCTV
9.1. We may fit our vehicles and other property with CCTV to provide added
security, monitor the conduct of customers, monitor service quality, to assist
us in the process of deterring smoking, vandalism, fraud, theft, anti-social
behaviour and attacks on our employees and other individuals, and in support
of relevant criminal and civil legal proceedings and complaint investigation. All
CCTV equipment and its operation complies with the General Data Protection
Regulation and the Data Protection Act 2018 (including the ICO’s CCTV Code of
Practice) and any subsequent amendments (“Data Protection Legislation”).
9.2. Images of you may be provided to the police, DVSA, the Traffic Commissioner or
any other enforcement agency at their reasonable request, whether to be used
as evidence in prosecuting criminal activity or in assisting the identification of
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individuals or otherwise.
10 SECURITY
10.1. Customers must advise the driver immediately if any suspicious article or
package is seen on or near a vehicle, if any Customer is observed acting
suspiciously or if any person is seen to tamper with the vehicle.
11 LOST PROPERTY
11.1. If you find property left on a vehicle by another Customer, please hand the
item(s) to the driver as soon as it is safe to do so. The driver will on request
supply you with his or her staff number.
11.2. If you have lost your property on one of our vehicles or at our premises, you
should contact the local Customer Services team or Lost Property team for the
region in which the item was lost. Contact details can be found on our website
(https://www.firstbus.co.uk/help-and-support/lost-property).
11.3. All lost property found or handed in by drivers or Company officials or by a third
party is recorded, labelled and stored at the local lost property office. If the lost
property is contained in a package, bag or other container, we may open it and
examine it in order to trace the owner or identify the nature and value of the lost
property.
11.4. Any lost property found on our vehicles, providing the item is not perishable
will be kept for 1 month. All unclaimed property is donated to charity at the end
of the calendar month following the one in which it was handed in. Perishable
items, including but not limited to foodstuffs, and soiled items will be held for a
maximum of 48 hours and if deemed necessary will be disposed of immediately.
In the case of debit and credit cards, any payment cards that are handed in are
securely destroyed. If you have lost your payment card, please contact your
bank immediately.
11.5. When claiming lost property, you must supply a full description of the item,
including its contents if applicable, and give details of where and when lost, in
order to reasonably satisfy us that you are the rightful owner of the property.
11.6. Once lost property has been identified you will be given details of how and
where to collect the item. Under normal circumstances, you will need to collect
the lost property from the office or depot at which the lost property is being
stored during office hours. On collection you will be asked to fill out your name
and address and supply proof of identity. You will need to pay the cost of
postage and packaging in advance if we agree to post the property back to you.
We reserve the right to charge a small fee for administration of the lost property
service.
Page 16 of 19
12 COMMENTS AND SUGGESTIONS
12.1. Each of our UK Bus regions is supported by a dedicated Customer Services team
responsible for handling suggestions and complaints efficiently and effectively. You
can find contact details by going to our website at (https://www.firstbus.co.uk/helpand-support). This will provide you with telephone contact details, as well as the
facility to contact us online by completing a ‘Contact Us’ form. You can also tell us
about your journey by visiting (http://www.firstbusfeedback.com/s3).
12.2. Information on how to contact your local operator is also available on all buses,
in our timetables and, where possible, in information leaflets.
12.3. Where a response is required, complaints will be investigated and dealt with,
provided, where relevant, they are received within a reasonable period following
the date on which the journey was made or incident occurred. We will always
aim to acknowledge your correspondence within 7 days of receipt by us, even
if this is initially to explain what investigation needs to take place and how long
this will take, and will aim to respond to your comment or complaint more
substantively within 14 days of receipt by us and will keep you up to date on the
progress.
12.4. When comments or complaints are about matters outside our control, we
reserve the right to forward them to the relevant organisation and explain that
we have done this.
12.5. If you have any questions about enforcement of your rights under the Bus and
Coach Passenger Rights Regulation 181/2011, you should contact Bus Users
UK (www.bususers.org) or Bus Users Scotland (BUS) (www.bususers.org), as
appropriate.
12.6. If you are not satisfied with our final response to your complaint, and in
accordance with your rights to Alternative Dispute Resolution under the
Consumer Rights Act, you can write to the relevant bus appeals body. The
appropriate body will depend on the location of the service you wish to complain
about:
(a) England & Wales: Bus Users UK (www.bususers.org)
(b) Scotland: Bus Users Scotland (BUS) (www.bususers.org)
We will always provide you with their contact details on request.
13 DATA PROTECTION
13.1. If we collect or otherwise process your personal data, we will always do so in
accordance with the Data Protection Legislation.
13.2. The Data Protection Legislation creates a number of rights, including allowing
you to request a copy of the data we hold on you. For more information on your
rights and how to use them, please go to the First Bus Privacy Policy (https://
Page 17 of 19
www.firstbus.co.uk/terms-and-conditions/privacy-policy). If you would like to
exercise any of your rights relating to personal data, including a request for us to
provide you with a copy of your data, please contact the Data Protection Officer,
First Bus, 8th Floor, The Point, 37 North Wharf Road, London W2 1AF, or via the
other contact methods set out in the Privacy Policy.
14 LEGAL NOTICE
14.1. Save as otherwise stated herein, these Conditions constitute the entire
agreement between the Company and its Customers. None of our employees is
entitled to alter or vary any of the provisions of these Conditions.
14.2. The contract between the Company and any Customer is limited to travel upon
the Company’s own services and liability (if any) will be limited accordingly.
The Company will not be liable for any loss, consequential loss, damage, or
inconvenience arising from the communication of information in good faith by
any of the Company’s employees.
14.3. The restrictions of liability contained in these Conditions are considered by the
Company to be reasonable in all circumstances. However, should any provision
of these Conditions be deemed to be invalid or unenforceable this shall not
affect the validity and enforceability of the remaining provisions.
14.4. Without prejudice to all rights and claims otherwise available to the Company, in
the event that Customers breach any of the Conditions, or any other condition
implied or duties owed as a matter of law (howsoever such conditions or duties
arise) the Company has the right to recover compensation for all loss, injury and
damage suffered by the Company as a result of such breach, including but not
limited to costs incurred in repairing or replacing damaged property and loss of
revenue.
14.5. The governing law for these Conditions shall be the laws of England and Wales
and the Courts of England and Wales shall have exclusive jurisdiction except
where your journey commences and terminates wholly within Scotland in which
case the laws of Scotland shall apply and the Courts of Scotland shall have
exclusive jurisdiction.
Page 18 of 19
15 SPECIAL MEANINGS
Expression Meaning
A dog which has been specifically trained to assist a person with
a disability and which has been certified by one of the charitable
organisations registered as members of Assistance Dogs (UK), or
is in training for such certification and accompanied by a trainer
bearing the appropriate valid identification.
An individual using a bus service provided by the Company.
Assistance Dog
An individual employed by or on behalf of the Company such as
an inspector or supervisor (but not a Driver).
The Confederation of Passenger Transport code for the use and
acceptance of mobility scooters on low floor buses (available at
Company official
These Conditions of Travel.
A bus driver employed by or on behalf of the Company.
A higher fare that can be charged in circumstances set out in
these Conditions, in particular where passengers are unable to
produce a valid ticket or valid pass for the journey being taken.
 

whoosh

Established Member
Joined
3 Sep 2008
Messages
1,892
Of course, there's always another option up First's sleeve should discussions with the school not remedy the issues. An option which does not ban anyone of any age or school from their buses.

Run the 6 and 6A as X6 and X6A missing out stops in the vicinity of the school for a period at school home time.

In fact, I'd go to the school with a copy of the new timetable in my hand, that I was ready to send off to register.
"If I send this off, you'll have so many days before it kicks in, and then there'll be so many days before I can change it back. If I want to change it back that is."
 

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
18,931
Location
Devon
We’re going to call it day for now. If and when there’s anymore information we’ll look at reopening it at some point.

Thanks everyone
 
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