Formal offer to ASLEF by RDG

[RAPC]

Well that's 2 big travel dates of mine scuppered by the strike action.

That said, based on the offer made, I still support this action by ASLEF as a paying punter. Until they make a serious, good faith offer, this will rumble on.

 

[778]

I am going to be travelling to Wolverhampton on 12th May. I was going to use London Northwestern to get to Birmingham. Will LNWR run any trains at all on the Friday?

 

[GardenRail]

The Network Rail offer (that got accepted) of 9% wasn't brilliant. Why would the RDG (set of Muppets) think for one second that drivers would accept less than that? From a purely money point of view. Circus.

 

[ChrisC]

Well Wembley is the biggest ground in the country, and part of the FA Cup tradition, so there will be a lot of fans that disagree. But either way the union are going out of their way to disrupt key events that the general public enjoy, and that a lot of people will want to travel to. And whilst disruption is the point of these strikes, hitting things like this do nothing for public support of the dispute. Meanwhile the government don't give a stuff, and won't budge an inch as a result meaning that the only people that suffer are football fans, the travelling public, and ASLEF members who lose a little more money...

Just like last summer it will hit people’s plans for travel to and from holidays. I haven‘t used the railways for long distance holiday travel since I travelled down to Cornwall at the beginning of May last year. For the past year I’ve taken holidays a little bit closer to home and used my car, or booked last minute, or travelled by train on days when there hasn’t been any disruption. It has meant paying higher prices either by booking hotels at more expensive cancellable rates or higher prices booking close to the date of stay. Just when I had decided to try again and I had booked a hotel up in Aberdeen there‘s a strike on Wednesday 31st May, the day I was due to travel back. With a bank holiday on Monday 28th and an another strike on Saturday 4th June it won’t be easy to make other arrangements avoiding busy trains. I think I’m going to book holidays again for this summer in locations where I will use my car instead of the train. It avoids all the planning of places to visit during a holiday followed by disappointment when it all has to be cancelled.

 

[EC54]

Based on the industry policy for every previous strike day, you'd be permitted to use your ticket the day before, and up to a few days after, the strike day.

So how does this work if the following day the train is already fully booked and most with reserved seats?

 

[43066]

So how does this work if the following day the train is already fully booked and most with reserved seats?

The same as during any severe overcrowding; first might be declassified and/or reservations abandoned.

 

[Carlisle]

The Network Rail offer (that got accepted) of 9% wasn't brilliant. Why would the RDG (set of Muppets) think for one second that drivers would accept less than that? From a purely money point of view. Circus.

The NR deal potentially involves a lot more night shift work does it not? That’s not the case with most drivers as far as I understand.

 

[Dan G]

4%+4% with some reforms seems par for the course. I'm not hearing anyone explain what else can help make up for rail revenue being down 20% since 2019.

Choosing FA Cup Final day suggests ASLEF aren't concerned about public support, because they've just guaranteed pushing down public support for railway industrial action from its current, already rather low, ~40%.

 

[GalaxyDog]

This is pretty much what RMT was initially offered and it was soundly declined....

 

[GardenRail]

The NR deal potentially involves a lot more night shift work does it not? That’s not the case with most drivers as far as I understand.

I speak as a Signaller, not maintenance. We got the same deal.

 

[Bertie the bus]

The Network Rail offer (that got accepted) of 9% wasn't brilliant. Why would the RDG (set of Muppets) think for one second that drivers would accept less than that? From a purely money point of view. Circus.

The 9% covered 2 years. 5% for this year and 4% for next. So not brilliant at all. Lower paid staff got a higher % but I don't think drivers would qualify as lower paid employees, unless they were being compared to Premier League footballers.

As for why RDG / the government thought drivers would accept this offer. I doubt they did think that.

 

[GardenRail]

4%+4% with some reforms seems par for the course. I'm not hearing anyone explain what else can help make up for rail revenue being down 20% since 2019.

Choosing FA Cup Final day suggests ASLEF aren't concerned about public support, because they've just guaranteed pushing down public support for railway industrial action from its current, already rather low, ~40%.

Unions do not strike to gain public support. The public need to be disgruntled, as this puts extra pressure on the government

 

[gazzaa2]

4%+4% with some reforms seems par for the course. I'm not hearing anyone explain what else can help make up for rail revenue being down 20% since 2019.

Choosing FA Cup Final day suggests ASLEF aren't concerned about public support, because they've just guaranteed pushing down public support for railway industrial action from its current, already rather low, ~40%.

I'd imaging the train driver dispute is a fair bit less anyway as drivers are perceived as being very well paid. RMT probably have a lot of the public support due to Mick Lynch bombast and the perception of more working class jobs.

 

[Watershed]

I am going to be travelling to Wolverhampton on 12th May. I was going to use London Northwestern to get to Birmingham. Will LNWR run any trains at all on the Friday?

Based on the last ASLEF strike, no, they won't. You could probably get there by using GWR from Paddington to Newport, TfW from Newport to Shrewsbury and then on from Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton - those are all services that ran (albeit GWR at a reduced frequency and not early/late) during the last ASLEF strike.

So how does this work if the following day the train is already fully booked and most with reserved seats?

You might have to stand. Much as the likes of LNER would like to pretend they run an airline on rails, there is no concept of "fully booked" on the railway, or rather - there's nothing stopping you getting on a fully reserved service. If you can physically fit on, you can travel.

 

[Dougal2345]

I am going to be travelling to Wolverhampton on 12th May. I was going to use London Northwestern to get to Birmingham. Will LNWR run any trains at all on the Friday?

I'm a bit confused about LNWR too - they are not mentioned in the list of companies affected on the ASLEF page, but already have their own strike page for these dates...

Personally I am/was booked to travel up from the south coast to the Liverpool area on 12th May, having a ticket for the afternoon Eurovision show on the 13th.

There are times when, however just the cause may be (and frankly I can't say I'm all that interested in the details), it is difficult not to feel extreme annoyance at the strikers and the disruption they cause. People paid twice what I am paid, are going to cost me money as I try to salvage my travel plans.

When Extinction Rebellion et al block roads and bridges, you can't help thinking that they are not doing it for their personal gain, and the disruptive impact they have is minuscule by comparison with this sort of strike action. And yet they are considered as dangerous freaks by most of the population.

Sorry, just being honest!

 

[Russel]

So, as a passenger, just trying to get to work to earn a living, when do I find out what kind of service will be available to me on the 12th May?

 

[GardenRail]

People paid twice what I am paid, are going to cost me money

Sorry, just being honest!

As a striker, the next phrase was thrown at us from all angles until our dispute was settled.

"If you are unhappy with your job, pay or employer, find another".

I absolutely guarantee, the Driver's just want to preserve what they have gained, and not race to the bottom.

 

[Watershed]

I'm a bit confused about LNWR too - they are not mentioned in the list of companies affected on the ASLEF page, but already have their own strike page for these dates...

Personally I am/was booked to travel up from the south coast to the Liverpool area on 12th May, having a ticket for the afternoon Eurovision show on the 13th.

There are times when, however just the cause may be (and frankly I can't say I'm all that interested in the details), it is difficult not to feel extreme annoyance at the strikers and the disruption they cause. People paid twice what I am paid, are going to cost me money as I try to salvage my travel plans.

When Extinction Rebellion et al block roads and bridges, you can't help thinking that they are not doing it for their personal gain, and the disruptive impact they have is minuscule by comparison with this sort of strike action. And yet they are considered as dangerous freaks by most of the population.

Sorry, just being honest!

LNR is one of two brands (the other is WMR) used by West Midlands Trains Ltd., which is the legal entity and hence the employer that ASLEF refer to.

You're going to find it rather tricky to travel from the south coast to the Liverpool area on the 12th, though it'll probably be possible if you can get to Brighton or Hove - you'd go via Victoria/London Bridge, across to Paddington, then via Newport and Chester.

So, as a passenger, just trying to get to work to earn a living, when do I find out what kind of service will be available to me on the 12th May?

Around 3-5 days in advance, in all likelihood. But there's not much point in waiting - the simple answer is that will be no trains on 90% of routes, and certainly none at Windermere (Keswick) or Lichfield stations. You can get a pretty good idea of what will run by looking at the last ASLEF strike day (3 February) on Charlwood House Rail - e.g. see Lichfield Trent Valley here.

 

[Bantamzen]

Unions do not strike to gain public support. The public need to be disgruntled, as this puts extra pressure on the government

The public are disgruntled, and at the government. But not necessarily because of the rail strikes. The public may also become disgruntled at the rail industry because whilst the cost of living crisis continues, what many see are well paid train drivers demanding more when many of the public have little to no chance of even getting close to 4%. And this hands a potential weapon to the government, especially as a general election on the horizon.

And please note this is not my opinion, I understand the issues at hand here. But as I have said all along you have to pick your fights well. Strikes aren't always successful and sometimes can end up making the situation worse ,see what is happening with the nurses and courts ruling against their strikes).

 

[778]

Based on the last ASLEF strike, no, they won't. You could probably get there by using GWR from Paddington to Newport, TfW from Newport to Shrewsbury and then on from Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton - those are all services that ran (albeit GWR at a reduced frequency and not early/late) during the last ASLEF strike.


You might have to stand. Much as the likes of LNER would like to pretend they run an airline on rails, there is no concept of "fully booked" on the railway, or rather - there's nothing stopping you getting on a fully reserved service. If you can physically fit on, you can travel.

I live in a town with a direct National Express coach service to Birmingham.

I have only used then once before. Are they reliable?

 

[Moonshot]

So, as a passenger, just trying to get to work to earn a living, when do I find out what kind of service will be available to me on the 12th May?

I would not count on a service being provided......you may as well make alternative arrangements now.

 

[JonathanH]

I live in a town with a direct National Express coach service to Birmingham.

I have only used then once before. Are they reliable?

Reliable in that they will run the service scheduled? Yes, most likely. However, they can't do anything about traffic delays if they occur on their routes.

 

[43096]

Unions do not strike to gain public support. The public need to be disgruntled, as this puts extra pressure on the government

You're contradicting your own argument! The union does need public support, or the disgruntlement is with the union for striking rather than the government. If the union loses the PR battle - and it's rather hard to win a PR battle about pay for a highly paid group of workers - then the government can just sit it out, knowing where the blame will go.

 

[Dougal2345]

Oh dear, now the RMT on 13th May - EuroVision seems to be the target! And I thought the negative reaction to that EuroVision-liveried train on here was a bit extreme

Perhaps they should have held that in Ukraine after all - it may be a war zone, but at least the trains are running there...

 

[matthewjohnson]

Nice of them to wait for us mid table nobody football league clubs to finish our season anyway, although if you're hoping to watch a club in the play offs you're in trouble

 

[dk1]

So, as a passenger, just trying to get to work to earn a living, when do I find out what kind of service will be available to me on the 12th May?

Normally the week before but you may have already a rough idea if you can recall any previous ASLEF only strike days as will be pretty much a carbon copy.

 

[Tezza1978]

Oh dear, now the RMT on 13th May - EuroVision seems to be the target! And I thought the negative reaction to that EuroVision-liveried train on here was a bit extreme

Perhaps they should have held that in Ukraine after all - it may be a war zone, but at least the trains are running there...

"But the union said accepting the offer would have meant no further strike action could take place"

Whether you are in favour of the strikes or against them - surely the above statement is not exactly news - if you agree a deal you can't then call more strikes (!!)

 

[ComUtoR]

Nice of them to wait for us mid table nobody football league clubs to finish our season anyway, although if you're hoping to watch a club in the play offs you're in trouble

I will be watching my club in the playoffs. Life doesn't revolve around the train service. I've heard the car is popular. I'll hopefully convince someone to drive as I need beers to get through a tense 90 (+4) minutes.

 

[matthewjohnson]

"But the union said accepting the offer would have meant no further strike action could take place"

Whether you are in favour of the strikes or against them - surely the above statement is not exactly news - if you agree a deal you can't then call more strikes (!!)

Yes I'm puzzled by that as well

 

[Krokodil]

Heard its a packet of ready salted and a can of vimto

More like salt&shake with conditions that mean you'll only be allowed to add the salt in your own time.

Nothing *needs* to be put to the members. The union can gauge feeling without a formal vote.

And there I was wondering why I didn't get my referendum papers on the Critical Benchmarks (References and Administrators' Liability) Act 2021. It's almost as if we (whether union members or the general public) are in a representative democracy, not a direct one like Switzerland.

Until the government provides more money, the RDG can’t offer any more money. There isn’t any to offer. The only way to get a payrise is pay for it through productivity, which quite rightly is a no-go to aslef. Stalemate continues ad infinitum.

But the conditions the government wants to impose won't actually improve productivity.

Perhaps they should have held that in Ukraine after all - it may be a war zone, but at least the trains are running there...

This is the difference though - the Ukrainian government clearly sees its railway system as worthy of investment. They've electrified a considerable mileage even while the war has been ongoing.