TfGM Bus franchising

[pokemonsuper9]

with TfGM adding that “rigorous testing” will be undertaken beforehand.

Anyone wanna guess how many hours it'll last before breaking day 1?

 

[Goldfish62]

Anyone wanna guess how many hours it'll last before breaking day 1?

Has Ticketer Tap-on, Tap-off "broken on Day 1" anywhere else?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Has Ticketer Tap-on, Tap-off "broken on Day 1" anywhere else?

The main problem with it, I find, is that operators don't publicise it so you first find out it exists when getting off after you've slowed the bus down by making a conventional ticket purchase!

 

[Goldfish62]

The main problem with it, I find, is that operators don't publicise it so you first find out it exists when getting off after you've slowed the bus down by making a conventional ticket purchase!

Agreed, but it works when it is used as far as I’m aware.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed, but it works when it is used as far as I’m aware.

Yeah, I've never heard a suggestion it doesn't, just not yet had an opportunity to actually use it because it's not present on my local buses and whenever I board another operator I'm just sold a ticket rather than directed to it so I never know to use it!

 

[johncrossley]

They need to have a separate tap on reader, probably on the left hand side when you get on the bus, and reserve the one on the ticket machine for paper ticket sales.

 

[Goldfish62]

They need to have a separate tap on reader, probably on the left hand side when you get on the bus, and reserve the one on the ticket machine for paper ticket sales.

The usual format is tap-on on the one on the ticket machine and tap off on one to the left of the doors as you alight. I don't see any advantage to having a separate one for boarding. More cost and no benefit.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The usual format is tap-on on the one on the ticket machine and tap off on one to the left of the doors as you alight. I don't see any advantage to having a separate one for boarding. More cost and no benefit.

The benefit is that the person tapping in is doing so further in while the driver is providing advice to another person, though if you can get entirely away from on board sales as London has it works fine.

 

[Goldfish62]

The benefit is that the person tapping in is doing so further in while the driver is providing advice to another person, though if you can get entirely away from on board sales as London has it works fine.

That would only work if you had two-stream boarding, and for that you'd need more than one door.

 

[johncrossley]

The usual format is tap-on on the one on the ticket machine and tap off on one to the left of the doors as you alight. I don't see any advantage to having a separate one for boarding. More cost and no benefit.

Firstly, putting the card flat on the machine is unnecessarily tedious when the passenger could just tap the reader on the side almost without breaking stride.

It also avoids confusion for the driver who might think that it is a ticket that the driver has to process. When tap in tap off is in operation, you would only expect a small percentage of passengers to need the driver's input.

 

[Goldfish62]

Firstly, putting the card flat on the machine is unnecessarily tedious when the passenger could just tap the reader on the side almost without breaking stride.

It also avoids confusion for the driver who might think that it is a ticket that the driver has to process. When tap in tap off is in operation, you would only expect a small percentage of passengers to need the driver's input.

Have you not seen Ticketer tap on, tap off in action? It's almost instantaneous, just as quick if not quicker than London Oyster readers. No driver intervention is required.

I don't see any need for a separate tap-on reader, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That would only work if you had two-stream boarding, and for that you'd need more than one door.

You don't need more than one door, a normal door is wide enough.

 

[WatcherZero]

Tap on reader is next to the driver so they can see that people are paying, they dont need to have the tap off reader in the same position allowing people to board and alight at the same time, having it on the left side facing into the bus should allow people to use it while exiting at the same time as people are tapping in next to the driver or stood talking to the driver

 

[johncrossley]

Have you not seen Ticketer tap on, tap off in action? It's almost instantaneous, just as quick if not quicker than London Oyster readers. No driver intervention is required.

I know that there is no driver intervention required, but you shouldn't need to place the bank card face down. I've used it in Brighton and Bristol and it is definitely slower there compared to London because of that. The drivers often seemed surprised that I was using the card in this way and seemed to be expecting me to talk to them. Other places outside the UK have standalone readers which are even quicker than London.

 

[py_megapixel]

I'm more interested in the real time information side of things. Presumably this refers to signs and auto announcements on board the buses. I assume, as with a lot of buses in this country, it'll be a text-to-speech job. Nothing wrong with that if implemented properly and done with a voice that sounds reasonably natural, but a lot aren't.

In particular, they need to standardise stop names. Each stop, or pair of stops opposite each other serving the same routes, should use the same name everywhere - timetables, websites, apps, Google Maps if possible, prominently displayed on a sign at the stop, as well as on buses. In terms of length, it needs to be concise and easy to remember (parks, major buildings and other landmarks are generally better than "Somewhere, Some Street, opposite Some Avenue" ) but not ambiguous (a stop called "Somewhere Station" when said station has 6 stops nearby is unhelpful, as is a stop named after a local area which has multiple stops in it).

 

[dodecahedron67]

I know that there is no driver intervention required, but you shouldn't need to place the bank card face down. I've used it in Brighton and Bristol and it is definitely slower there compared to London because of that. The drivers often seemed surprised that I was using the card in this way and seemed to be expecting me to talk to them. Other places outside the UK have standalone readers which are even quicker than London.

You don't need to place the card face down? One of my most hated myths about contactless - people thinking a card must face a certain way

 

[johncrossley]

You don't need to place the card face down? One of my most hated myths about contactless - people thinking a card must face a certain way

I mean you have to place it so it lies on top (or just above) the reader. That's more fiddly compared to an Oyster reader which you can swipe easily as you walk past it.

 

[GusB]

Unless there's relevance to the situation in Manchester, further discussion of the ins and outs of contactless transactions is off topic.

Please take it to another thread, but make sure there isn't already an existing one before starting a new topic.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

40759 is in Yellow livery now, making it the 5th vehicle treated so far. (Picture below)

The first of the yellow bus stops I've seen have popped up. The only changed bit is the yellow at the top. (Images below)

beenetwork.com redirects to https://tfgm.com/live-updates/

 

[Bletchleyite]

That stop flag is obviously done using vinyls, and looks cheap and nasty to me. Like Northern's cheapo vinylling of all their station nameboards in Rail Alphabet 2, they'd really have been better off just doing it slowly as a programme of proper replacement.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

they'd really have been better off just doing it slowly as a programme of proper replacement.

Proper replacement with what? I don't see a reason for a more expensive and slower replacement when they're fine already.

I'm not sure of the full extent of where they've re-yellowed the stops, but it's certainly not all of them.

 

[Goldfish62]

Proper replacement with what? I don't see a reason for a more expensive and slower replacement when they're fine already.

Indeed. Looks fine to me. Low cost solution but does the job.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Proper replacement with what? I don't see a reason for a more expensive and slower replacement when they're fine already.

I'm not sure of the full extent of where they've re-yellowed the stops, but it's certainly not all of them.

With new flags, ideally modular London-style ones so they don't start looking awful over time with layers of vinyls stuck all over them as services change.

Indeed. Looks fine to me. Low cost solution but does the job.

Looks horribly, horribly cheap. At least make the vinyl cover the whole thing!

 

[duncombec]

Looks horribly, horribly cheap. At least make the vinyl cover the whole thing!

I can't really see what you're complaining about. From memory, Manchester uses a standard stop flag with vinyl overlays for the route numbers and location details, anyway, so aside from the new logo, I doubt many people will see any difference other than "oh look, new logo". For people who have the obsession with route numbers on bus stops, it's a much cleaner solution than vinyling the entire stop, using plastic "e-plates" or just not bothering to update the stops for years.

At least the vinyls are between the printed lines - it's not as though they've been slapped on any old how!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't really see what you're complaining about. From memory, Manchester uses a standard stop flag with vinyl overlays for the route numbers and location details, anyway, so aside from the new logo, I doubt many people will see any difference other than "oh look, new logo". For people who have the obsession with route numbers on bus stops, it's a much cleaner solution than vinyling the entire stop, using plastic "e-plates" or just not bothering to update the stops for years.

I certainly do support bus numbers and key destinations on stops, but the best way is indeed the separate plates.

 

[Leyland Bus]

40759 is in Yellow livery now, making it the 5th vehicle treated so far. (Picture below)

The first of the yellow bus stops I've seen have popped up. The only changed bit is the yellow at the top. (Images below)

beenetwork.com redirects to https://tfgm.com/live-updates/

There are a couple near the former Atherton depot that have been treated too, probably done quite random to start to get the image out and about.

 

[domcoop7]

I can't really see what you're complaining about. From memory, Manchester uses a standard stop flag with vinyl overlays for the route numbers and location details, anyway, so aside from the new logo, I doubt many people will see any difference other than "oh look, new logo". For people who have the obsession with route numbers on bus stops, it's a much cleaner solution than vinyling the entire stop, using plastic "e-plates" or just not bothering to update the stops for years.

At least the vinyls are between the printed lines - it's not as though they've been slapped on any old how!

They are all vinyls. Near me I think they revinyled the last GMPTE flag (which had a red logo on one side and a smaller black and white one on the other) with TfGM (all black and white) about 3 years ago. I expect if you peeled off the layers you'd get the 1974 to 2010 version GMPTE logo (the 'm' letter with curved serifs at the bottom)

However, from where I'm sitting re-vinyling all the bus stop flags with a (tiny) brand name and a new website that just redirects to TfGM - particularly a flag which reads "bus stop not in use" is yet another example of profligate money wasting. People have managed to catch buses of varying different coloured liveries at Greater Manchester bus stops without any problem since 1986, so it isn't clear why now they need to use money to make (part) of the sign the same colour as the buses.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

particularly a flag which reads "bus stop not in use" is yet another example of profligate money wasting.

the stop I took a picture of and sent here is used as a diversion stop on the (Rare) occasion that the road through the town centre is closed, it was only put there within the last few years when the diversion was most recently used.
I do wonder what they'll do with stops that haven't seen service for years, such as the ones around Hag Fold on the old 583 + school bus routes, as well as the much older 59X (I don't remember if it was 3 or 4) that also had a unique route through the town.

 

[johncrossley]

However, from where I'm sitting re-vinyling all the bus stop flags with a (tiny) brand name and a new website that just redirects to TfGM - particularly a flag which reads "bus stop not in use" is yet another example of profligate money wasting. People have managed to catch buses of varying different coloured liveries at Greater Manchester bus stops without any problem since 1986, so it isn't clear why now they need to use money to make (part) of the sign the same colour as the buses.

Rebranding or even replacing bus stop flags has been done by deregulated operators, but when they do it is acceptable and even lauded as good marketing.

 

[Goldfish62]

However, from where I'm sitting re-vinyling all the bus stop flags with a (tiny) brand name and a new website that just redirects to TfGM - particularly a flag which reads "bus stop not in use" is yet another example of profligate money wasting. People have managed to catch buses of varying different coloured liveries at Greater Manchester bus stops without any problem since 1986, so it isn't clear why now they need to use money to make (part) of the sign the same colour as the buses.

It's called branding. That thing that the thrusting, dynamic private sector is an expert at.