Trains that can be used on services as a substitute

[ATW Alex 101]

What trains do you guys reckon can be used as a replacement train on long distance services?? Any stories or pictures would help.

I thought of: No 350 available for crewe-euston, 2x323
170 insead of a 185 on liverpool TPE services
3x170 manchester-bournmouth
170 used on a liverpool-birmingham
142 pacer chester-crewe/manchester
175 used on holyead-birmingham

any other suggestions?

 

[lm321412]

What trains do you guys reckon can be used as a replacement train on long distance services?? Any stories or pictures would help.

I thought of: No 350 available for crewe-euston, 2x323
170 insead of a 185 on liverpool TPE services
3x170 manchester-bournmouth
170 used on a liverpool-birmingham
142 pacer chester-crewe/manchester
175 used on holyead-birmingham

any other suggestions?

There is no way that 2x 323s will substitute 350s on Crewe - Euston. None of the relevant crews are train on 323s and the LM fleet of 323s haven't been up to Crewe for about 5 years or so now.

Furthermore, All of ATWs 142 fleet are in use at the Valleys down South Wales. None of the North Wales staff are trained to operate on Pacers.

I am also inclined to say that 170s on Manchester - Bournemouth and Birmingham - Liverpool are unlikely to happen. Yes, XC have used 170s from Birmingham - Manchester once or twice, but it is exceptionally rare.

LMs 170s do not have First Class, so there chances of going up to Liverpool are slim and once again these have not been up from Birmingham in about 4 or 5 years.


Although I must admit, SL did provide a pair of 150/1s on a Euston - Birmingham run way back in 2004, when a power failure completely messed up the WCMLs OHLE.

 

[northwichcat]

No 350 available for crewe-euston, 2x323

Too slow. It's a 100mph path.

142 pacer chester-crewe/manchester

ATW's Chester crews don't sign 142s. Northern crews don't sign Crewe-Chester.

142s can't fill in for 323s unless the services are retimed to leave earlier, the paths are too tight on the WCML.

 

[ChrisCooper]

As well as the mentioned problem of crew training, there is also the issue of timekeeping. A substitute train may not be able to keep to time, which can effect pathing. It's not just top speed, but acceleration (especially when a DMU substitutes for an EMU). Depends on the sort of service and how tight timings are. In some cases clearance can be a problem, as a type may not be cleared on a certain route.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Is it just me who doesn't really see the point of this?

No?

 

[ainsworth74]

Nope I also don't see the point of this.

 

[Yew]

I think a weekend where the ecml is full of pacers, and pacer routes full of nice high speed trains, Would result in increased investment to branch services

 

[mumrar]

Three 170s would be overkill to replace a 220 or 221. I believe 4 car 170s have almost the capacity of a 221. Imagine the nightmare of three units but no gangway connection as well.

As mentioned, two have been used before on Birmingham-Manchester, I managed to shoot a pair (170519+520) on a Sunday near Norton Bridge:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=286207

 

[jopsuk]

Imagine the nightmare of three units but no gangway connection as well.

I suppose it isn't great for crewed trains, but in the wilds of the south east it's quite common (Networkers, 321s, 357s).

 

[TDK]

What trains do you guys reckon can be used as a replacement train on long distance services?? Any stories or pictures would help.

I thought of: No 350 available for crewe-euston, 2x323
170 insead of a 185 on liverpool TPE services
3x170 manchester-bournmouth
170 used on a liverpool-birmingham
142 pacer chester-crewe/manchester
175 used on holyead-birmingham

any other suggestions?

153 vice 158 - Crewe to Cardiff
150 vice 175 - Manchester Cardiff
150 vice 175 - Cardiff Holyhead
175 vice 153 - Crewe to Salop local
168 vice 67 & DVT Marylebone to Salop
150 vice 153 on Heart of Wales
455 vice 377 Victoria to Brighton
319 vice 455 Victoria to Epsom Downs

all these I have either seen or worked.

 

[northwichcat]

153 vice 158 - Crewe to Cardiff
150 vice 175 - Manchester Cardiff
150 vice 175 - Cardiff Holyhead
175 vice 153 - Crewe to Salop local
168 vice 67 & DVT Marylebone to Salop
150 vice 153 on Heart of Wales

all these I have either seen or worked.

I think ATW timetable their routes for up to 75mph running then if it's a faster unit used it arrives early or makes up for lost time. Certainly in the ATW ORR application for Manchester Airport services they stated 175s as the usual traction but stated they may use 150s, 153s and 158s as well.

 

[rail-britain]

What trains do you guys reckon can be used as a replacement train on long distance services?? Any stories or pictures would help

I suspect the OP is referring to a hypothetical scenario
In the past there was a major issue when the IC225 sets had to be suspended from passenger use

However, if such an event happened now most TOCs would simply swap the available units and bustitute everything else
Probably the worst to be affected would be AXC and VT, if the Voyagers had to be suspended from use

 

[scotsman]

220 for Edinburgh/Glasgow - Inverness

 

[LexyBoy]

Entertaining answers which come to mind are 57+sleeper stock on an Oxford-London morning commuter service, and a (steam?) special taking pax from Victoria to Dover when SET were fubared by the snow.

Generally of course it has to be something which can do the required timings and which the drivers sign, which means that it's usually something which turns up fairly often anyway.

 

[AndyJB]

What trains do you guys reckon can be used as a replacement train on long distance services?? Any stories or pictures would help.

I thought of: No 350 available for crewe-euston, 2x323
170 insead of a 185 on liverpool TPE services
3x170 manchester-bournmouth
170 used on a liverpool-birmingham
142 pacer chester-crewe/manchester
175 used on holyead-birmingham

any other suggestions?

168's (Chiltern) on the Birmingham Moor Street - London (and would, presumably, therefore be suitable for long-distance subsitution)

 

[Anon Mouse]

I am sure that TPE have a booked turn that brings a 170 to Liverpool. It would be a Manchester job so I'm not 100%. It certainly wont be a Scarborough - Liverpool as Scarborough, York and Newcastle Men don't sign 170's

 

[142094]

Is it just me who doesn't really see the point of this?

No?

Nope I also don't see the point of this.

Ditto. I thought after the last time things would have changed. Seems like they haven't.

I don't mind people coming on here asking serious questions but when silly threads pop up it gets tedious.

 

[GNERman]

Some Northern one's... (and i've seen each of these...)

Class 321 - Aire Valley Services (eg Skipton/Bradford-Leeds)
Class 144 - Skipton - Bradford/Leeds
Class 158 - Leeds - Morecambe
Class 150 - Leeds - Carlisle, Blackpool North - York

 

[ainsworth74]

I am sure that TPE have a booked turn that brings a 170 to Liverpool.

I'm fairly confident that this is an early morning run from Hull.

 

[MCR247]

I'm fairly confident that this is an early morning run from Hull.

And there is/was a 20xx Liverpool - Hull

 

[Anon Mouse]

I'm fairly confident that this is an early morning run from Hull.

That sounds very familiar!

 

[Caped Crusader]

In December, when the snow hit, Southern ran a couple of 171's on the mainline as emergency trains, not timetabled services. Probably Uckfield line units based at Selhurst.
I'm pretty sure 171's are restricted to which platforms they can use at Victoria as the exhaust fumes have been known to set the fire alarms off!

 

[route101]

Ok what about 156s on the GLQ to Edinburgh Waverley via Falkirk or FSR 170s Glasgow to AYR?

 

[scotsman]

In December, when the snow hit, Southern ran a couple of 171's on the mainline as emergency trains, not timetabled services. Probably Uckfield line units based at Selhurst.
I'm pretty sure 171's are restricted to which platforms they can use at Victoria as the exhaust fumes have been known to set the fire alarms off!

Doubt it, ScotRail and Network Rail seem to do well at Waverley, Glasgow Central, Glasgow Queen Street, Aberdeen and Inverness...

 

[MCR247]

IIRC Uckfields used to go to Victoria but were moved to LBG because of fumes..?

 

[bnm]

Probably the worst to be affected would be AXC and VT, if the Voyagers had to be suspended from use

It has happened, I'm racking my brains trying to remember an incident in 2004 or 2005 that saw the entire Voyager fleet suspended for half a day while urgent safety checks were carried out. I think a unit had caught fire after an incorrect engine overhaul.

I was working as a Customer Service temp for FGW at Bristol Temple Meads at the time and it was chaotic to say the least. Fortunately CrossCountry destinations are, in nearly all cases, possible to get to by rail (eventually!) using alternate routes and TOCs. The local DMU's to Worcester (for Birmingham) that morning were rammed and I remember FGW (EDIT: No, it were Wessex Trains!) quickly summoning up a relief service. We were also advising passengers to travel to Birmingham via Newport and Hereford. With some being sent via London!

North-East and North-West destinations were easier to manage, sending passengers via London.