Not-very-happy situation at Smallbrook Junction

[Calthrop]

A bit of an aside but I am amazed that the last (from my understanding) Isle of Wight Steam railway train arrives at 1446. That is incredibly early; 1hr15mins before sunset in December, never mind April!

This time of year I'd expect the railway to operate until around 1700, which is the typical closing down time for tourist attractions.

If I understand rightly; last week, and this one -- the railway's "Green" (minimum) timetable, in force: first departure from Havenstreet 1010, last arrival there 1531 (train goes Smallbrook -- Wootton and then back to Havenstreet). From the beginning of May, the somewhat more generous "Blue" timetable comes into action.

 

[Jim]

I am well aware that timetable planning is a complex process, but anyone think multiple pres lines that have "BR Railheads" aren't always the best at planning their services to connect.

Cholsey & Wallingford springs to mind, trains used to depart at XX35 (I think it was) from Cholsey, mainline services from Didcot used to arrive at about XX37 and XX39 from Reading. (again times approx and varied but you get the point).

Make it easy to get business, not difficult!

 

[Gloster]

It is a fair few years since I have used Island Line south of Esplanade, but I have a suspicion, no more, about what may have happened, although it is coloured by my usual cynicism about the human race in general and holidaymakers in particular. If there are no passengers to get off, which there shouldn’t be at the end of IOWSR‘s operating day, the driver may only slow down and be prepared to stop if there is anybody on the platform: if the platform is clear they just speed up again and don’t stop. Passengers who have left the IOWSR’s train to get the Island Line one are quite likely to be in holidaymaker mode as mentioned in #38 and it could be that the driver doesn’t see them because they are somewhere out of view. One reason for not stopping is that a holidaymaker on the Island Line train will decide to get off and have to have the reason why they shouldn’t have done so explained to them: then the parents and seventeen offspring rejoin the train one by one.

 

[43066]

It is a fair few years since I have used Island Line south of Esplanade, but I have a suspicion, no more, about what may have happened, although it is coloured by my usual cynicism about the human race in general and holidaymakers in particular. If there are no passengers to get off, which there shouldn’t be at the end of IOWSR‘s operating day, the driver may only slow down and be prepared to stop if there is anybody on the platform: if the platform is clear they just speed up again and don’t stop. Passengers who have left the IOWSR’s train to get the Island Line one are quite likely to be in holidaymaker mode as mentioned in #38 and it could be that the driver doesn’t see them because they are somewhere out of view. One reason for not stopping is that a holidaymaker on the Island Line train will decide to get off and have to have the reason why they shouldn’t have done so explained to them: then the parents and seventeen offspring rejoin the train one by one.

So it sounds like the stop effectively becomes a request stop at certain times. I’ve had a quick look at their website which does indeed support this:

On days where the Isle of Wight Steam Railway are running trains, Island Line services stop at Smallbrook Junction.

Please note that this station is provided for Steam Railway interchange ONLY.

The timetable shows that only a few trains per day actually call there, however it still seems odd that it isn’t made clear it’s effectively a request stop, so that people know to wait on the platform!

From a crew point of view there must also surely be internal instructions indicating which services must stop, and which are only required to stop if people are visible on the platform, or if the guard has notified the driver that someone has asked to alight.

Rail - Timetable - Island Line

live-departures.info

 

[NorwichRailFan]

I also feel that as it is a small line with a regular frequency, surely if a train failed to stop you could call SWR and request for them to stop an additional train. I mean it is their fault you are stuck there in the first place.

 

[bingleybong]

I also feel that as it is a small line with a regular frequency, surely if a train failed to stop you could call SWR and request for them to stop an additional train. I mean it is their fault you are stuck there in the first place.

Or the Steam Railway could make the call.

 

[NorwichRailFan]

Or the Steam Railway could make the call.

True

 

[Old Shire]

Smallbrook Junction Train Station | South Western Railway

Find information on Smallbrook Junction train station. View live departures and arrivals, station facilities, accessibility information and book cheap train tickets.

www.southwesternrailway.com

The above shows the station details. So if there is no access why does the above says you can get a bus? If there is no access why was the station allowed to be built? If someone is taken ill do they dial 999 or wait for the next train that might not stop. Even combe junction and berney arms have some kind of access

 

[Gloster]

Smallbrook Junction Train Station | South Western Railway

Find information on Smallbrook Junction train station. View live departures and arrivals, station facilities, accessibility information and book cheap train tickets.

www.southwesternrailway.com

The above shows the station details. So if there is no access why does the above says you can get a bus? If there is no access why was the station allowed to be built? If someone is taken ill do they dial 999 or wait for the next train that might not stop. Even combe junction and berney arms have some kind of access

It is purely intended as an interchange station between Island Line and the IOWSR (like Bala Jct and others). The buses and, probably, the toilets (and maybe even Wi-fi) are likely to be just poor editing on SWT’s part. There shouldn’t be anyone on the station (except staff) between the last train to call on one day and the first train on the next IOWSR operating day, so the situation with illness shouldn’t arrive.

 

[Bevan Price]

Looking at RTT for 18 April, the 15:00 from Shanklin called at Smallbrook Junction from 15:17 to 15:18, so apart from a 30 minute wait, nobody would have got stranded at Smallbrook.

 

[Falcon1200]

If there is no access why was the station allowed to be built?

It is purely intended as an interchange station between Island Line and the IOWSR

Indeed, and Island Line trains only stop there when the IoWSR is operating.

 

[birchesgreen]

The above shows the station details. So if there is no access why does the above says you can get a bus? If there is no access why was the station allowed to be built? If someone is taken ill do they dial 999 or wait for the next train that might not stop. Even combe junction and berney arms have some kind of access

That is an interesting question, what would happen in an emergency?

 

[Falcon1200]

That is an interesting question, what would happen in an emergency?

As passengers can only be on the station when trains are running, presumably they would be taken by train to an accessible location (Ryde St Johns Road?). More difficult if a person could not be moved, however.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As passengers can only be on the station when trains are running, presumably they would be taken by train to an accessible location (Ryde St Johns Road?). More difficult if a person could not be moved, however.

Presumably ambulance crews would reach them by train. It isn't really much different to only being able to reach them by lift in a tall building.

 

[Paul Hitchcock]

Are there any forum members who are known to work for the Island Line, or who might otherwise be able to answer this definitively? If so, perhaps someone could @ them.

It would be interesting to hear about that from the horse’s mouth, so to speak.

This has happened to me so I confirm these iniquities happen!

 

[Fragezeichnen]

It's rather strange. As I understand it, on a 'Mainland' TOC a driver failing to call at a booked station is serious issue which would lead to an investigation, a entry in the driver's disciplinary record and possibly an implemenation of an performance improvement plan. I can only assume it is official or unofficial Island Line management policy to treat it as an unofficial, unmarked request stop, otherwise, why would any driver take the risk?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's rather strange. As I understand it, on a 'Mainland' TOC a driver failing to call at a booked station is serious issue which would lead to an investigation, a entry in the driver's disciplinary record and possibly an implemenation of an performance improvement plan. I can only assume it is official or unofficial Island Line management policy to treat it as an unofficial, unmarked request stop, otherwise, why would any driver take the risk?

A failure to call is generally treated similarly to a SPAD, yes. I guess these don't get reported due to the nature of Island Line?

That or it's not happening, and a couple of Steam Railway guards are getting het up about one incident about 20 years ago or something.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Having known several drivers who have missed stations unintentionally, and seen the sometimes months of suspension and improvement plans, the idea that any driver could get away with systematically deliberately missing a station, regardless of how quiet it is, is very hard to swallow indeed.

 

[43066]

This has happened to me so I confirm these iniquities happen!

It's rather strange. As I understand it, on a 'Mainland' TOC a driver failing to call at a booked station is serious issue which would lead to an investigation, a entry in the driver's disciplinary record and possibly an implemenation of an performance improvement plan. I can only assume it is official or unofficial Island Line management policy to treat it as an unofficial, unmarked request stop, otherwise, why would any driver take the risk?

I can only think there’s some kind of mismatch between the internal Island Line policy and what’s publicly available. It seems completely bizarre.

A failure to call is generally treated similarly to a SPAD, yes. I guess these don't get reported due to the nature of Island Line?

Fair to say it’s nowhere near as serious as a SPAD in terms of seriousness, but yes, it’s still a safety of the line incident.

 

[Gloster]

I agree that it is highly unlikely that drivers are deliberately missing the stop. My opinion, and I make it clear that this is an opinion, is that the trains slow down to a speed from which they can stop if passengers are seen to be waiting. However, if the guard has said (or dinged) that there are no disembarking passengers and no passengers are seen to be waiting, the train may not actually stop. If the passengers are over on the IOWSR platform gawping at something and completely deaf to the world, the driver may not see them and continue on: they should be waiting on the platform.

Or, again as said, it is just as likely is that there was an incident when people were inconvenienced twenty years ago. It has gone down in IOWSR lore and the story has grown, “Only last week a hundred, no, a thousand Island Line trains sped past crowds many million strong with the driver hurling coal from the tender at the passengers and trying to throw them all onto the 50 Megawatt third rail.”

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree that it is highly unlikely that drivers are deliberately missing the stop. My opinion, and I make it clear that this is an opinion, is that the trains slow down to a speed from which they can stop if passengers are seen to be waiting. However, if the guard has said (or dinged) that there are no disembarking passengers and no passengers are seen to be waiting, the train may not actually stop. If the passengers are over on the IOWSR platform gawping at something and completely deaf to the world, the driver may not see them and continue on: they should be waiting on the platform.

If this is true, there should be clear signage stating it is a request stop, and not an assumption.

 

[InkyScrolls]

If this is true, there should be clear signage stating it is a request stop, and not an assumption.

Indeed.

 

[Paul Hitchcock]

I agree that it is highly unlikely that drivers are deliberately missing the stop. My opinion, and I make it clear that this is an opinion, is that the trains slow down to a speed from which they can stop if passengers are seen to be waiting. However, if the guard has said (or dinged) that there are no disembarking passengers and no passengers are seen to be waiting, the train may not actually stop. If the passengers are over on the IOWSR platform gawping at something and completely deaf to the world, the driver may not see them and continue on: they should be waiting on the platform.

Or, again as said, it is just as likely is that there was an incident when people were inconvenienced twenty years ago. It has gone down in IOWSR lore and the story has grown, “Only last week a hundred, no, a thousand Island Line trains sped past crowds many million strong with the driver hurling coal from the tender at the passengers and trying to throw them all onto the 50 Megawatt third rail.”

Sorry but none of these "explanations" applied to the instance when Island Line left me stranded. Nowadays I return to Ryde via Wootton and the bus.``````````````````````````````

 

[43066]

Sorry but none of these "explanations" applied to the instance when Island Line left me stranded. Nowadays I return to Ryde via Wootton and the bus.``````````````````````````````

What happened!?

 

[Paul Hitchcock]

What happened!?

I waited on the Island Line platform at Smallbrook in full sight of the driver who just didn't stop. Since then I have never trusted Island Line to stop for the last IOWSR service so I go to Wootton and take the bus. This was a while ago now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could a reasonable mitigation here be a help point on the platform so if the appointed service doesn't stop for any reason the next one can be given a stop order?

 

[InkyScrolls]

Could a reasonable mitigation here be a help point on the platform so if the appointed service doesn't stop for any reason the next one can be given a stop order?

If that is the solution then every station should receive it. Smallbrook Jct. is not a request and it is not unreasonable to expect the trains will stop as booked!

 

[Bletchleyite]

If that is the solution then every station should receive it. Smallbrook Jct. is not a request and it is not unreasonable to expect the trains will stop as booked!

It's an unusual case by having no safe or legal exit from the station other than by train, so in the event of a problem there is a need to call for help. Is there any other such station in the UK that is currently open? I don't think so - even "silly" ones like Dyfi Junction, Berney Arms, Altnabreac and the likes have footpath access.

 

[PTR 444]

Are there still active proposals to build a new garden village on the fields in-between the railway and the A3055 road south of Smallbrook Lane? If so, the houses would be very close to Smallbrook Junction so it would make sense for the station to serve this new community, even if public access is only by foot and no car parking is provided.

Even without this development, there should still be an emergency access path to provide a passenger escape route from the station, or failing that, close it and extend the steam railway to St John’s Road.

 

[Gloster]

Are there still active proposals to build a new garden village on the fields in-between the railway and the A3055 road south of Smallbrook Lane? If so, the houses would be very close to Smallbrook Junction so it would make sense for the station to serve this new community, even if public access is only by foot and no car parking is provided.

Even without this development, there should still be an emergency access path to provide a passenger escape route from the station, or failing that, close it and extend the steam railway to St John’s Road.

The Pennyfeathers development is still being bounced about: after sixteen years it got refused again earlier this month, but the developers don’t seem to be prepared to give up. However, with another large estate at the top of the hill looking set to be given permission soon, it might have to wait a bit. Using it as a station for Pennyfeathers would not be cheap as it would require a bridge, additional facilities on the platform, separation of the IOWSR and possibly a rebuilt platform. At Network Rail prices that will be quite a few million and a chance to shut the line for several months for a fourth time, so it will probably be approved.

Using it for Pennyfeathers residents will cause lots of ticketless travel, disruption and other problems: it is not a good idea. Anyway, there is a quarter-hourly bus service along the main road.