Or a professional work environment.
But when you're left with the dregs of the Tory party, who knows what you'll end up with.
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Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Party.
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Or a professional work environment.
But when you're left with the dregs of the Tory party, who knows what you'll end up with.
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SuspectUsual
Established Member
- Joined
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As did/does every other Secretary of State and minister
But remember it's the BBC with a bias problem...
As suggested in #2306. I think I need to put 'Lottery ticket' on the shopping list.
Actually Rees-Mogg was defending him when I logged on today. Fortunately that has disappeared. There is, however:
Other lawyers are quoted as well. None pro-Raab.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...p&cvid=35be86e0237c4c7186a1c51bd44c956f&ei=66
It's not just about Brexit. Admittedly I am on the opposite side of the debate to Raab, but I just don't particularly like the man, his attitude, or his politics in general on a range of issues.
I'm generally on the same "side" as Labour or the Lib Dems on many things but wouldn't try to defend a Labour or Lib Dem MP who was acting obnoxiously.
I suspect that impulsive angry people who don't think through the consequences of their actions are likely to defend other impulsive angry people who don't think through the consequences of their actions. It's not a tribal thing as such - just a lot of common features to the question
Maybe she has got a heart after all!
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/oth...p&cvid=b2ce17e2da184c34a5c870d095205b74&ei=32
A young child's one in a jar on her desk, I would have thought.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
A good friend of mine’s been in the Civil Service for a long time and has worked under a lot of Ministers, of both colours. Raab is the only one they actively despised.
The likes of Peter Mandelson were also very challenging, very exacting, but managed to remain unfailingly polite and he always took time to compliment their shoes/hair/etc.
Funnily enough, Peter Mandelson got a lot more stuff done.
Yes, a lot of bleating from Raab. No acknowledgement that there have been Ministers for centuries that haven't caused large scale complaints from the Civil Service.
Typical Tory belief in their right to rule, regardless, just like when the lettuce Lady decided to institute a radical economic policy without bothering to put it in a manifesto.
Typical Tory belief in their right to rule, regardless, just like when the lettuce Lady decided to institute a radical economic policy without bothering to put it in a manifesto.
birchesgreen
Established Member
Its probably some elaborate grift
Mandelson may have learnt that lesson* but there are a hell of a lot of people in managerial positions, in and out of politics, who haven't.
I once witnessed a middle manager bawling out an employee in front of those the employee was responsible for.
Later on he was promoted so he became my line manager; he needed my help in a disciplinary case (I was in my last week of employment there). I never seemed to have time to write the glowing report he requested. Funny that.
Most employees just want to get through to the end of the week sane and with more money in the bank. They have no hidden agenda; but if they are shouted at, name-called or humiliated, they may soon develop one!
* - for political balance, I think it has been stated up-thread, Gove is another. I suspect Cable might have been too,
I certainly have no time for managers who abuse or humiliate their employees. Even constant nit-picking criticism of small, trivial issues coupled with a lack of recognition of the employee's strong points is bad managerial practice IMO; it can make the employee feel undervalued and give them a sense that they are not respected.
Really, someone acting in an abusive manner should not be in a managerial job at all. Whoever manages them should move them on to a non-managerial job, straight away, and if it means they take a cut in pay, so be it. They're not the best person for the job.
With the risk of going off thread, I worked for an organisation that played to your strengths. People knew what my strengths were, and what my weaknesses were, so I might be given support to do those tasks I struggled with if it couldn't be done by someone else. I knew I was asked to do something because I was better placed to do it than others. We accepted that. It is what I understand by team-work. We were effectively taken over by an organisation (the one described above) where they played on your weaknesses. In meetings you wanted to be the person furthest from the person that was having the finger pointed at them. I can remember a meeting with the ultimate boss who wanted to know what a particular job role involved so that we could be given a job description. I managed on more than one site, most didn't, one chap had to arrange for maintenance on his site, I didn't, another was, uniquely, first call on security matters. We were threatened with demotion because we could not agree. The person who had little responsibility and no added extras said the job was easy and was promoted. That is why I left.
What doesn't seem to happen in politics is ministers are not necessarily appointed by their strengths. They are moved around like pieces on a draughts board. In addition to a basic knowledge, certain Ministers need particular skills; if you are in an outward facing ministry, such as Foreign Office or International Trade, diplomatic skills should be at the forefront. Other ministries involve being able to pick up a basic knowledge of fairly technical detail quickly, most (but not all) involve a high level of communication skills, others may need organisational skills. A minister seems to be appointed because it is the next step up or because they nominated the new leader, not on their ability.
To be honest, Sunak's appointments have been significantly better than those of Truss or Johnson. I hope Starmer is taking note.
Completely agree. Thankfully I haven't had any terrible bosses though I did have one who was of the nit-picking minor-criticism not-playing-to-your-strengths type, but no outright abuse such as threat of demotion.
Allies of the leadership would be another factor, or fear of back-stabbing. Perhaps both played a part in Raab's various appointments over the years.
Bringing things back on topic, I'm not convinced of that. I consider Braverman and Anderson absolutely appalling appointments, and as a result, Sunak a weak man who is in thrall to the hard-right of the party (or, alternatively, he is right-wing himself). In terms of appointments I'd actually say Sunak is at least as bad as Truss or Johnson - and with things like the Illegal Migration Bill I still consider that the Sunak government is every bit as right-wing as those of Johnson and Truss. Indeed, with its cuts-oriented agenda (running down the railways being a good example), it's perhaps to the right economically of Johnson, so perhaps, dare I say it, it's worse than the Johnson government. Perhaps not surprising: it could well be that Sunak is a conviction right-winger whereas Johnson just jumps on whatever bandwagon will get him power, and in fact as Mayor of London he was, IIRC, an EU-supporting cuddly liberal.
A good Tory leader would have sent Braverman to the backbenches where she belongs and kept the reactionary, thuggish Anderson - an utterly inappropriate person to be an MP, let alone one in high office - there.
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On reflection, I think 'significantly' may have overstated it but Truss and Johnson had some appalling appointments. 'Better' is after all used as a comparison. It shows a chink of light after the gloom of Johnson, who seemed to only appoint those that were more useless than him.
Johnson originally brought Raab in, Patel, Hancock, Leadsom, Truss, Coffey, Williamson, he originally brought Rees-Mogg in to adopt a horizontal position, Kwarteng, Lewis, also Cox and McVey attended cabinet. How could I forget Dorries. Also the awful Lord Frost.
Truss originally brought Braverman (and Badenoch) in, Coffey Deputy PM, Lewis, Rees-Mogg (who did nothing), Kwarteng, Malthouse, Jenkyns and Gullis at Education, Clarke and Smith completely out of their depth (at least Smith seems to realise it now), did Trevelyan actually do anything?
Some of Sunak's appointments that I think are good are Stride (safe pair of hands at DWP), Mercer (Veterans Affairs - attends Cabinet). Mitchell (knowledgeable in the field), Merriman at Transport and Halfon at Education likewise, Ghani (Industry). I expected better from Barclay. The best I can say about Anderson is that he is not actually in charge of anything!
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
The Party Chairman has always been a symbolic role designed to make someone feel important without actually doing anything. I’d be more worried if 30p Lee got given a proper job in government.
I don’t understand Braverman as Home Secretary, she’s another one who screams and shouts and stamps her feet because she’s incapable of communicating coherently. I also genuinely can’t believe Jeremy Hunt is Chancellor, it feels like Sunak’s trolling
Beyond that I do generally think Sunak’s chosen the best of a bad bunch, given all the sensible intelligent Tories were deselected by Johnson.
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Nether the cabinet not the shadow cabinet give much comfort, do they.....
OK, I see where you're coming from there - but Braverman was to my mind a catastrophic error and even though Anderson doesn't do anything useful besides live the good life on the back of the taxpayer, he is still a figurehead and very public face of the Tory party, and the image he portrays is not good. And he has retained the inept Coffey of course (though not sure whether Malthouse, Jenkyns, Gullis et al are still ministers - I've lost track).
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
I do think the shadow cabinet are in a better shape, in particular Rayner and Reeves. But Labour are similarly struggling to replace the sensible people that Corbyn and Momentum drove out.
I struggle to name many people in the shadow cabinet, besides Starmer himself, Rayner and Reeves, as you say. But arguably bland is good. They do not have any outrageous figures like Braverman in senior shadow cabinet positions, which speaks volumes.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Johnson actually appointed Braverman to her first cabinet post, as Attorney General.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
And this gave her the QC (now KC) status she bangs on about, despite her not otherwise being qualified to obtain such status.
Man_with_beard
Member
The word on the street is Rishi will prerogue parliament (shut it down) after the local elections in May, and call a general election. They know The Tories are tanking support. All established parties are working to a global agenda where corporations will thrive, the small and medium sized businesses will be crushed and our NHS is in tatters. Both parties are on the same trajectory so they might as well let Labour pick up the slack.
The excess deaths, the young suddenly having heart attacks, rapid stage 4 cancer will continue to unfold. This gives me no pleasure writing this but we have been completely betrayed and sold out to faceless controllers who hold the real power
The data on the excess deaths, injuries from the roll out, the failure of The West in Ukraine, causing unnecessary deaths and destruction In a war they cannot win, the overspending of The government on the military industrial complex is into multi billions, the enormous debt, the fake race to get to planet zero, is getting worse and worse. Westminster is finished as a bastion of democracy.
The excess deaths, the young suddenly having heart attacks, rapid stage 4 cancer will continue to unfold. This gives me no pleasure writing this but we have been completely betrayed and sold out to faceless controllers who hold the real power
The data on the excess deaths, injuries from the roll out, the failure of The West in Ukraine, causing unnecessary deaths and destruction In a war they cannot win, the overspending of The government on the military industrial complex is into multi billions, the enormous debt, the fake race to get to planet zero, is getting worse and worse. Westminster is finished as a bastion of democracy.
Intercity110
On Moderation
I’m sorry, what? You lost me at
and the fact you say
must mean this is complete satire, so good joke! Can we get back to serious politics?
i don’t think so as sesame street has some sanity.
birchesgreen
Established Member
Are you disappointed most of the population didn't become zombies at 3pm on Sunday?
Why would Sunak want to commit political suicide?
I can see why, say, Truss would want that to happen. If it is a heavy defeat, she could claim that if they had only stuck with her madcap policies we would be in the sunlit uplands right now. If the Conservatives lose next time round, unless it is really close, Sunak is on borrowed time. And a heavy defeat means they are gone for a long time, The longer he can stick it out 'something may turn up' - we know that inflation is likely to fall, some of his other promises may work out. If local election results are bad, just make things tougher for local government, squeeze their revenue raising powers.
What I believe about Sunak, unlike his predecessors, is that he is in touch with reality
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