Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Party.

[High Dyke]

I'd prefer he stands and loses than gets deselected. More likely to lose the seat than some new rent-a-Tory with a clean record.

Yep, I'd agree with that.

 

[jfollows]

If the media report below is correct, he didn't have much choice:

Adam Tolley KC’s investigation into Dominic Raab found he acted in an “intimidating” fashion with “unreasonably and persistently aggressive conduct” in a work meeting while he was foreign secretary, PA Media reports.

reported at https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rt-rishi-sunak-tories-uk-politics-latest-news
His only get-out would be if in some way this was an isolated incident, explainable for other reasons perhaps, and the implication seems to be very much that it wasn't.

 

[DustyBin]

His resignation letter is stunning. Apparently the investigation into his bullying sets a dangerous precedent in that the threshold for what is bullying has now been set too low

I agree, and I say that as somebody who generally disagrees with PC nonsense (where it actually is nonsense). Patel was another one I had no sympathy for; she was thoroughly unpleasant.

 

[nw1]

I agree, and I say that as somebody who generally disagrees with PC nonsense (where it actually is nonsense). Patel was another one I had no sympathy for; she was thoroughly unpleasant.

Four out of the five Unchained-ers thus seem to have had their reputation stained by now. Only the fifth, Skidmore (who by all accounts is much more middle-of-the-road than the rest) has not.

Does this thus mark the end of the period of Britannia Unchained influence? Maybe. But with the likes of Braverman (worse than Patel, IMO) and Anderson (controversially, worse than Raab IMO) still in senior positions, I'm certainly not celebrating yet.

I suppose cynically Sunak can boast that the era of Truss-Kwarteng-Raab-Patel is over, and some might believe him, but until the government and the Tory party start approaching something like a centre-right party which treats its political opponents (such as those with "woke" views) with respect, many more of us won't be fooled.

 

[Typhoon]

Four out of the five Unchained-ers thus seem to have had their reputation stained by now. Only the fifth, Skidmore (who by all accounts is much more middle-of-the-road than the rest) has not.

He is standing down at the next election and has done widely praised work on Net Zero

The UK’s leadership on tackling climate change has delivered real change at home and led to a global transformation – but more should be done to reap the economic benefits that presents, Chris Skidmore says today.

Mission Zero, his Net Zero Review, makes 129 recommendations covering areas including the greater role that business can be supported to play, making better use of infrastructure and delivering more energy efficient homes. Every one is designed to maximise economic investment, opportunities and jobs – all while working towards achieving legally binding targets to reach net zero carbon emissions by 2050.

He urges ministers to grasp the ‘historic opportunity’, highlighting how the government’s Net Zero Strategy offers the right direction, and the right policies to do so.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ore-to-reap-economic-benefits-of-green-growth

On Friday, the Conservative MP Chris Skidmore published Mission Zero - a wide-ranging review of the UK's net zero plans. Citing recent INET Oxford work, the review’s Executive Summary notes, “Oxford research has shown that a fast transition to net zero based on scaling up key green technologies will continue to drive their costs down, and transitioning to a decarbonised energy system based on green technologies by 2050 can save the world at least $12 trillion, compared to continuing our current levels of fossil fuel use.”
The review recognises that the economy and climate are deeply intertwined and called net zero “the economic opportunity of the 21st century”, suggesting the narrative around the economics of sustainability has substantially shifted on these issues in recent years.

https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/news/mission-zero-inet-oxford-research-features-in-uk-net-zero-review/

 

[nw1]

He is standing down at the next election and has done widely praised work on Net Zero


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ore-to-reap-economic-benefits-of-green-growth

https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/news/mission-zero-inet-oxford-research-features-in-uk-net-zero-review/

Yes, I thought I heard he actually had some good ideas on some issues, in contrast to the other four.

I'm no Conservative (to state the obvious) but wonder why a relatively reasonable Tory MP is standing down? I know the Kingswood constituency is going, I guess that's something to do with it, with the town of Kingswood joining up with a (safe Labour, presumably) new Bristol seat. I guess he'd be in a battle with Rees-Mogg for the new Keynsham (?) constituency and knowing the silly choice Tory members made at Fareham and Waterlooville recently, it wouldn't surprise me if they favour Rees-Mogg.

 

[jfollows]

Guardian opinion article at https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/21/dominic-raab-hardman-rishi-sunak-scandal, I haven't read it but I just love the title:

For all his hardman mantras, Raab forgot rule one: don’t be a massive arse​

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Apr 2023 ==

Alex Chalk (who?) to replace Raab as Justice Secretary. MP for Cheltenham.

 

[edwin_m]

Alex Chalk (who?) to replace Raab as Justice Secretary. MP for Cheltenham.

Hoping he'll be Chalk and cheese?

 

[Typhoon]

Yes, I thought I heard he actually had some good ideas on some issues, in contrast to the other four.

I'm no Conservative (to state the obvious) but wonder why a relatively reasonable Tory MP is standing down?

Maybe he wants to concentrate on Net Zero? There are all sorts of bodies that would take him on, some for his links with government (even if it is of a different persuasion). And he won't have to worry about constituents.

Sometimes there is something that you find you are spending more and more time to the detriment of others. Most of his parliamentary interactions seem to be on energy, Net Zero and climate change. In government he signed UK's pledge on Net Zero; in typical government stupidity, within days he was moved to the Department of Health (by Johnson); less than two months later he is off to Education (ditto). He has also served as a Minister for the Constitution. We can't have a Minister who actually knows what he is talking about, can we? (Actually, Sunak seems been better than most on that; I knew Merriman was at Transport but hadn't picked up that Halfon was at Education.) He also appears to have a young family.

Hoping he'll be Chalk and cheese?

Are you also predicting a return of Truss, then?

(Incidentally, he was previously Solicitor General, so may make sense.)

 

[nw1]

Hoping he'll be Chalk and cheese?

Cheltenham is a seat which many are predicting will swing Lib Dem, so seems odd to appoint someone liable to lose their seat at the next election.

 

[takno]

Cheltenham is a seat which many are predicting will swing Lib Dem, so seems odd to appoint someone liable to lose their seat at the next election.

Pretty much just means that Sunak's replacement will have to pick again for the shadow post. No biggie

 

[MikeWM]

Having just scanned through the report (which can be found here) it appears to be almost entirely a nothing-burger. There are three groups of complaints:

- One from the 'Brexit' department, which finds no particular conclusions whatever ('[Raab's] conduct cannot be characterised as offensive, malicious or insulting. It was experienced as intimidating, in the sense of excessively demanding. I could not make a finding as to whether it was in fact intimidating in this sense. There was no evidence to suggest any abuse or misuse of power.)

- One from Justice, which is effectively dismissed ('The participants in the MoJ Group Complaint deserve credit for their courage in coming forward. But its composition and content make it unsuitable as a basis for any findings about [Raab's] conduct.')

- And one from the Foreign Office, which is the only one with any meaningful findings. There's little detail provided but the conclusions are '...he acted in a way which was intimidating, in the sense of unreasonably and persistently aggressive conduct in the context of a work meeting.' and 'On a separate occasion, [Raab] referred to the Civil Service Code in a way which could reasonably have been understood as suggesting that those involved had acted in breach. This had a significant adverse effect on a particular individual who took it seriously.'


I'm no fan of Raab in the slightest, and I've been aware for some years that people in the civil service don't like him (as opposed to say Gove, who believe it or not is quite well-liked). And I don't believe bullying in the workplace is ever acceptable or should be tolerated.

But from the details supplied here, I'd bet that just about anyone who has worked on high-visibility, or time-critical, projects in the private sector has encountered individuals acting *significantly* worse than this. Perhaps there is more to this than there is included in the report, but based on what we have here, it seems to be a massive fuss about very little.

 

[takno]

Having just scanned through the report (which can be found here) it appears to be almost entirely a nothing-burger. There are three groups of complaints:

- One from the 'Brexit' department, which finds no particular conclusions whatever ('[Raab's] conduct cannot be characterised as offensive, malicious or insulting. It was experienced as intimidating, in the sense of excessively demanding. I could not make a finding as to whether it was in fact intimidating in this sense. There was no evidence to suggest any abuse or misuse of power.)

- One from Justice, which is effectively dismissed ('The participants in the MoJ Group Complaint deserve credit for their courage in coming forward. But its composition and content make it unsuitable as a basis for any findings about [Raab's] conduct.')

- And one from the Foreign Office, which is the only one with any meaningful findings. There's little detail provided but the conclusions are '...he acted in a way which was intimidating, in the sense of unreasonably and persistently aggressive conduct in the context of a work meeting.' and 'On a separate occasion, [Raab] referred to the Civil Service Code in a way which could reasonably have been understood as suggesting that those involved had acted in breach. This had a significant adverse effect on a particular individual who took it seriously.'


I'm no fan of Raab in the slightest, and I've been aware for some years that people in the civil service don't like him (as opposed to say Gove, who believe it or not is quite well-liked). And I don't believe bullying in the workplace is ever acceptable or should be tolerated.

But from the details supplied here, I'd bet that just about anyone who has worked on high-visibility, or time-critical, projects in the private sector has encountered individuals acting *significantly* worse than this. Perhaps there is more to this than there is included in the report, but based on what we have here, it seems to be a massive fuss about very little.

It sounds like the behaviour at justice may have been too problematic to want to publicly detail, but probably won't be pursued further if he does the decent thing.

I n terms of what we all might have done, it doesn't appear to be specific instances that are the issue - more the failure to ever reflect on the behaviour or attempt to apologize or build a relationship of respectful disagreement. He kind of demonstrated the point by dragging out the resignation.

 

[Typhoon]

Oliver Dowden has been appointed deputy prime minister, Downing Street confirms.

He will also remain the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster.

No threat to Sunak that is for certain!

Source https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-64467038

 

[Thirteen]

Deputy PM is a bit of a thankless role, essentially covering for the PM when he's away.

I suspect Raab's political career is done for after the next election, he's really not popular.

 

[MikeWM]

It sounds like the behaviour at justice may have been too problematic to want to publicly detail, but probably won't be pursued further if he does the decent thing.

I n terms of what we all might have done, it doesn't appear to be specific instances that are the issue - more the failure to ever reflect on the behaviour or attempt to apologize or build a relationship of respectful disagreement. He kind of demonstrated the point by dragging out the resignation.

There's more about the specifics of the justice complaint at 176(3), for anyone sufficiently bored on a Friday afternoon to look at it

On a number of occasions at meetings with policy officials, [Raab] acted in a manner which was intimidating, in the sense of going further than was necessary or appropriate in delivering critical feedback, and also insulting, in the sense of making unconstructive critical comments about the quality of work done(whether or not as a matter of substance any criticism was justified). By way of example, he complained about the absence of what he referred to as ‘basic information’ or ‘the basics’, about ‘obstructiveness’ on the part of officials whom he perceived to be resistant to his policies, and described some work as ‘utterly useless’ and ‘woeful’.

Which doesn't sound particularly pleasant (though even the report doesn't rule out that the work may indeed have been useless and that the civil servants may indeed have been obstructive [1]) but the report itself says

[Raab’s] conduct during the MoJ Period was sometimes ‘abrasive’, in the sense of a personal style which is or feels intimidating or insulting to the individual, but is not intended to be so. His conduct was not, however, ‘abusive’, in the sense of behaviour which is intended and specifically targeted

and on your final point it then says

[Raab] has been able to regulate this level of ‘abrasiveness’ since the announcement of the investigation.


[1] A reading of Tony Benn's diaries from the late 1970s seems instructive here - Benn finds out that civil servants are willfully doing the exact opposite in policy terms from what he clearly instructed them to do.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I'd bet that just about anyone who has worked on high-visibility, or time-critical, projects in the private sector has encountered individuals acting *significantly* worse than this

Absolutely. I certainly have. The worst was my line manager, who was effectively director level in a £700m business despite not having it in his job title, pushing me against a wall in front of about 20 people and screaming that I was “a f*cking c*nt”. Which was lovely. When I went to HR I was told I was free to make a complaint but that it wouldn’t get anywhere as the individual concerned was seen as something of a golden boy by people at the parent company.

But anyway.

None of this whataboutery makes a shred of difference in Raab’s case. Other people somewhere else being worse isn’t a defence.

And having skim read the report I think I’m right in saying the 6 allegations out of 8 that weren’t upheld were effectively unproven rather than found to be without merit.

Raab has also shown his true character in getting an opinion piece into the Telegraph prior to his resignation and prior to the report being published where he tries to defend himself, knowing full well that his victims will never have that opportunity.

 

[yorksrob]

It's unprofessional conduct and unbefitting someone in public office (whatever the private sector gets up to).

 

[MikeWM]

None of this whataboutery makes a shred of difference in Raab’s case. Other people somewhere else being worse isn’t a defence.

Of course not, and I didn't intend to imply it as such.

My point is that anyone looking at the specifics that have been narrated are likely to go 'really, is that all there is to it? He sounds like a bit of a jerk but I encounter those all the time in my job'.

And I do think ministers need to be firm with the civil service as they do often resist doing things they don't agree with - as per my example with Tony Benn mentioned above. Straddling the line between firm and being 'abrasive' (as opposed to 'abusive', a distinction clearly made in the report) may be somewhat difficult if you're actually trying to get things done and people are indeed being obstructive.

 

[Thirteen]

Honestly, had Raab not written that column in the Telegraph, he may still be Deputy PM/Justice Secretary. I think it's his abrasive attitude that sunk him.

It's interesting that Gove is liked by civil servants. I think he's someone who wants to make a difference and in his current post, he's getting things done,

 

[Lost property]

Four out of the five Unchained-ers thus seem to have had their reputation stained by now. Only the fifth, Skidmore (who by all accounts is much more middle-of-the-road than the rest) has not.

Does this thus mark the end of the period of Britannia Unchained influence? Maybe. But with the likes of Braverman (worse than Patel, IMO) and Anderson (controversially, worse than Raab IMO) still in senior positions, I'm certainly not celebrating yet.

I suppose cynically Sunak can boast that the era of Truss-Kwarteng-Raab-Patel is over, and some might believe him, but until the government and the Tory party start approaching something like a centre-right party which treats its political opponents (such as those with "woke" views) with respect, many more of us won't be fooled.

Well this ideology inspired collective has certainly managed, between them, to implode in various spectacular ways.

However, the core of the ERG remain and Sunak has already bowed to their influence with regard to the legalities of exporting humans across the globe. So, as long as this group remain, the time for celebrating will have to wait until after the next General Election...when they get kicked out of power for some considerable time.

" Deputy PM is a bit of a thankless role, essentially covering for the PM when he's away."

Even more so when you are sitting on a beach, enjoying the sunshine, and the phone rings with some inconvenient news about somewhere called Kabul for example

 

[dosxuk]

Even more so when you are sitting on a beach, enjoying the sunshine, and the phone rings with some inconvenient news about somewhere called Kabul for example

Or someone asks you some awkward question about the importance of Dover.

 

[Typhoon]

Deputy PM is a bit of a thankless role, essentially covering for the PM when he's away.

Don't disagree but they tend to need to answer difficult questions and Dowden gives me no confidence at all. I suspect Rayner will give him a hard time.

 

[cb a1]

Of course not, and I didn't intend to imply it as such.

My point is that anyone looking at the specifics that have been narrated are likely to go 'really, is that all there is to it? He sounds like a bit of a jerk but I encounter those all the time in my job'.

And I do think ministers need to be firm with the civil service as they do often resist doing things they don't agree with - as per my example with Tony Benn mentioned above. Straddling the line between firm and being 'abrasive' (as opposed to 'abusive', a distinction clearly made in the report) may be somewhat difficult if you're actually trying to get things done and people are indeed being obstructive.

Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that being abusive or even abrasive is a sure fire way of ensuring those on the receiving will drag their heels even more.
Ministers do have some power to command, but if you want to be successful you really need to know how to lead.

 

[jfollows]

Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that being abusive or even abrasive is a sure fire way of ensuring those on the receiving will drag their heels even more.
Ministers do have some power to command, but if you want to be successful you really need to know how to lead.

The problem is that many MPs, apparently including Dominic Raab, don’t posess an ounce of common sense.
You and I would be fine, but we’re not MPs, and - speaking for myself - don’t want to be.

 

[nw1]

Don't disagree but they tend to need to answer difficult questions and Dowden gives me no confidence at all. I suspect Rayner will give him a hard time.

My first thought is "who?"

Well, actually my first thought seeing the name Oliver was Mr Letwin, but sadly (given that he was by all accounts one of the saner Tories) he is no longer in parliament.

 

[jon0844]

Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that being abusive or even abrasive is a sure fire way of ensuring those on the receiving will drag their heels even more.
Ministers do have some power to command, but if you want to be successful you really need to know how to lead.

I saw a thread on Twitter where GB News was asking if he should have gone, and the replies were almost exclusively defending Raab and blaming the lazy workers that needed to have their heads bashed together to get things done, or given their P45s. I get the impression that they think being professional is 'woke' in some way, and a sign of weakness.

One wonders where these people work and what their working environments are like.

 

[Peterthegreat]

I saw a thread on Twitter where GB News was asking if he should have gone, and the replies were almost exclusively defending Raab and blaming the lazy workers that needed to have their heads bashed together to get things done, or given their P45s. I get the impression that they think being professional is 'woke' in some way, and a sign of weakness.

One wonders where these people work and what their working environments are like.

Very Trump like.

 

[Sunil_P]

Dominic Raab = Barmaid Icon

 

[Broucek]

I saw a thread on Twitter where GB News was asking if he should have gone, and the replies were almost exclusively defending Raab and blaming the lazy workers that needed to have their heads bashed together to get things done, or given their P45s. I get the impression that they think being professional is 'woke' in some way, and a sign of weakness.

One wonders where these people work and what their working environments are like.

It's possible that the respondents have a lot of time on their hands which may say something about their sophistication around the world of work. Similar to the people who were shocked when Clarkson was fired for actually punching a co-worker...

My impression is that Raab was something of a toxic boss but it also sounds a bit like some of the complainants have unrealistic expectations of gentle cuddliness from someone who, whether or not you like him, had a pretty responsible job

Good article in the Telegraph today from Lord Harris bewailing the stupid tendency of people to attack or defend Raab depending on which side of the Brexit debate they sit