Unexplained 4 Minutes Extra Waiting At Dorking Northbound

[Capvermell]

Can anyone with knowledge of train timetabling or train pathing and train diagrams please explain to me why since the merger of Victoria to Horsham Semi Fast trains with Victoria to Epsom Slow services on Sept 5th 2022 an extra and seemingly totally unnecessary

 

[Bumpkin]

I would guess from looking at RealTime Trains that it is to allow for the down SWR trains to Dorking to cross in front at Epsom. The 1Dxx trains from Waterloo to Dorking arrive at xx57.5 and the 2Ixx Horsham trains arrive at Epsom at xx00.5.

The train planning rules for Epsom a 3 minute margin has to be given between an Up train (London bound) arriving into Platform 3 and a Down train (Dorking/Horsham bound) from Ewell West arriving into Platform 2. Dorking is the really the only place that this can be added before arriving at Epsom that may not cause any issues with other services once between Leatherhead and Epsom.

Previously the separate Victoria to Epsom slow services would not have to have dealt with this as they turned around in Platform 1 where this restriction does not apply.

 

[OliverH68]

Yep Bumpkin is spot on - the restrictions are due to signal overlaps thus can only have a train in P2 before anything arrives into P1 or 3. A longer dwell is much preferred to excess pathing time.

 

[Bikeman78]

Yep Bumpkin is spot on - the restrictions are due to signal overlaps thus can only have a train in P2 before anything arrives into P1 or 3. A longer dwell is much preferred to excess pathing time.

Couldn't the train leave Horsham a few minutes later?

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Couldn't the train leave Horsham a few minutes later?

No as they will clash with the up Portsmouth/Southampton services at Horsham. There are some nasty overlaps at Horsham as well.

 

[devon_belle]

Could someone let me know what the timetable/calling points were before Sep 2022? Was there really a semi-fast to Horsham via Dorking - where did it call? Thanks

 

[Bumpkin]

Could someone let me know what the timetable/calling points were before Sep 2022? Was there really a semi-fast to Horsham via Dorking - where did it call? Thanks

They used to call at Victoria > Clapham Junction > Carshalton > Sutton > Cheam > Epsom > Ashtead > Leatherhead > Box Hill & Westhumble? > Dorking > Holmwood > Ockley > Warnham and Horsham. The same pattern above was also used for the Victoria to Dorking services obviously omitting stations between Dorking and Horsham.

I cannot remember if it was the Horsham or Dorking Southern services that called at Box Hill & Westhumble off the top of my head though.

The stopping services ran Victoria to Epsom only so travelling from say Mitcham Jct to Horsham would have required a change at Sutton or Epsom.

 

[devon_belle]

They used to call at Victoria > Clapham Junction > Carshalton > Sutton > Cheam > Epsom > Ashtead > Leatherhead > Box Hill & Westhumble? > Dorking > Holmwood > Ockley > Warnham and Horsham.

This would have been ideal for me now! Just my luck. Hopefully they bring it back one day...

 

[Bikeman78]

No as they will clash with the up Portsmouth/Southampton services at Horsham. There are some nasty overlaps at Horsham as well.

Why couldn't it depart at XX:17 with the up Arun valley following at XX:20?

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Why couldn't it depart at XX:17 with the up Arun valley following at XX:20?

Because of the arrival of the up arun valley trains at xx16. Overlap prevents it.

 

[Bikeman78]

Because of the arrival of the up arun valley trains at xx16. Overlap prevents it.

On a calling on signal, with another train stood in the platform blocking the path of the arriving train? Seriously? Who designed that?

Plan B. Why not put the Dorking train in platform 2 and the up Bognor in 1? An up train overshooting platform 1 will end up in the goods yard.

 

[louis97]

On a calling on signal, with another train stood in the platform blocking the path of the arriving train? Seriously? Who designed that?

Plan B. Why not put the Dorking train in platform 2 and the up Bognor in 1? An up train overshooting platform 1 will end up in the goods yard.

On a calling on signal the overlap won't stick out with a train in the platform, either way 1 minute arrive/depart would be sufficient with the overlap. Although a performance risk, so not something I'd recommend.

You could switch the platforms around, I've done this before during engineering works.