gabrielhj07
Established Member
I think that's what they're implying.
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TfL proposes to withdraw Day Travelcards
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Unfortunately that is very much a niche requirement. Oyster and Contactless are the preferred method of travel in London for the vast majority of TfL's users.
In practice 9.9m of them will still travel, and pay more for doing so (or walk from their London Terminal).
They are a) generally issued as paper tickets, b) don't allocate TfL the revenue share it wants, and c) expendable in the eyes of TfL.
It is fairly inconceivable that the proposal won't go through, particularly with the associated plan to extend availability of Contactless to a wider area under Project Oval.
ThameslinkUser
Member
And in 200 years time there will be no contactless or apple pay. This thread isn't speculative. Comment on what is now and what is proposed.
Snow1964
Established Member
Probably best that would happen is delayed a few months until second phase of project Oval goes live
But I wouldn't trust TfL to wait
jon81uk
Member
I’d rather TfL negotiated better with the TOCs to take a better cut. This would actually cause me to use rail less and drive in to outer London then use TfL services, so it’s Greater Anglia who would lose out as the fare into London is too expensive.
Although at this stage there is no public proposal to withdraw magstripe tickets other than Day Travelcards (and the period Inboundary paper Travelcards which have already been withdrawn) being sold from either LU, NR or TfL ticket machines, so at this stage there would be no cost saving as magstripe compatibility would still be required.
I note that, as an example of the fare hike this could well mean for users of Network Railcards, Family Railcards and Two Together Railcards, the current off-peak travelcard price from Redhill at the weekend with a Network Railcard is £12.05. The £13 cap applies on weekdays for Network Railcard users.
The current off-peak PAYG cap is £23.70, with boundary fares set up to ensure that a user will pay this cap if they make more than two journeys in Zone 1. Even a user who is not a railcard holder sees an increase from £18.30 to £23.70.
That is nearly a doubling in price as a result, and will represent fairly handy income to TfL and the DfT.
The current off-peak PAYG cap is £23.70, with boundary fares set up to ensure that a user will pay this cap if they make more than two journeys in Zone 1. Even a user who is not a railcard holder sees an increase from £18.30 to £23.70.
That is nearly a doubling in price as a result, and will represent fairly handy income to TfL and the DfT.
SouthEastBuses
On Moderation
Yeah I thought the intention was to effectively get rid of cash fares, as the Z1-6 travelcards to my knowledge are the only type of tickets you can pay using cash in London.
Which I did earlier. See post 20
So what? What's wrong with a paper ticket? Does it then mean we'll all be forced to pay with contactless?
As @Hadders correctly points out, this is basically an increase in fare prices through the back door.
ThameslinkUser
Member
This is incorrect
SouthEastBuses
On Moderation
Tell me then, what other type of London public transport tickets can be paid using cash?
ThameslinkUser
Member
Look at any single fare finder journey.
SouthEastBuses
On Moderation
And what if you want to make multiple journeys in a day? Do you then have to always pay £6.70 for every single journey you make? Not everyone has contactless cards or oyster you know!
The industry is very keen to abolish paper tickets for three reasons. Revenue Protection, the cost of producing paper tickets, and to reduce the cost of maintaining ticket gatelines.
Indeed, but that is up to TfL to implement. They can increase prices if they see fit, and think it appropriate.
Almost everyone has the ability to obtain a Contactless Card or an Oyster Card. TfL say:
Have you really never been to Exeter, Edinburgh, Cardiff or Portsmouth? These cities all have comprehensive urban bus networks and a small local rail network. They're all enormous tourism draws in their region. None offer integrated tickets. Of course, I'd say that's an indictment of poor planning and part of the reason for the very high car use in these areas.
ThameslinkUser
Member
The option is there. You said it wasn't. Why should everyone else subsidide this expensive medium?
This is really hyperbole. They don't want to keep non-residents of London out. They only want them to pay substantially more.
ThameslinkUser
Member
You can buy and subsequently an Oyster with cash using the same POMs. I'd recommend it.
SouthEastBuses
On Moderation
1. How do you increase revenue protection by abolishing paper tickets?
2. Cost of producing paper tickets can be a fair point
3. Why would a paper ticket increase the cost of maintaining gatelines?
ThameslinkUser
Member
Look at a gateline
It is very unlikely that Day Travelcards will continue to be available for much longer. This consultation is to formalise an outcome which has been near certain since TfL's agreement on recovery funding with the DfT.
SouthEastBuses
On Moderation
You're right, that is a good point. I completely forgot about it, so you have my apologies!
I've done it once on a day trip to the area East London area (Hornchurch are) back in August 2018, when we drove to Lakeside Shopping Centre in Essex and when I thought I'd ride bus routes 372, 193 and 370. However, I didn't get a proper Oyster - what I did is I bought (in cash) a 1 Day Bus & Tram pass from a shop in Hornchurch, which happened to be issued as an Oyster smartcard.
Day Travelcards are easy to share. This is not permitted.
The barcode on an e-ticket means that usage can be tracked far more easily. People who commit multiple fare offences can be tracked easier by fraud investigators.
They have to maintain the machinery within a ticket gate, which needs regular servicing,
SouthEastBuses
On Moderation
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Presumably alongside this there'll also be something done regarding cross London transfer and outboundary period Travelcards will be ITSO only? If not, the potentially huge saving from decommissioning all the magstripe kit won't be realised?
There is absolutely no chance of that happening.
ThameslinkUser
Member
That is literally the whole point of this. They need to raise revenue as per gov funding. It's not a secret agenda
It is, that's one of the primary intentions behind the proposed changes.
Demand isn't strong enough to return to 2019 revenues, so if people don't pay more in real terms for the same service how can there be revenue recovery?
To me it should be obvious to increase the price of driving and not public transport, but that hurts London residents. This hurts non-residents far more than residents so it will be much easier politically.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's not entirely unreasonable that those who live outside London and so don't pay its very high Council Tax to fund TfL (in part) might pay more. Tourist taxes of various types are near enough universal worldwide, from levies on hotel stays to "locals'" prices.
ThameslinkUser
Member
I should imagine that there are so few cross-london transfer tickets that they could get away with visual inspections of paper tickets. Period tickets would probably be ITSO only as there isn't a real reason this couldn't already happen.
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