Premium car features you would pay extra NOT to have

[PG]

As I understand it, handbrakes on disc brakes become less effective as the disc cools and contracts, reducing the braking effect. Drums cooling and contracting tightens the brake. Lots of Citroens with rear disc brakes ran away while parked some years ago.

My dad had a Citroen BX back in the 80's which IIRC was discs all round but the handbrake operated on the front wheels. I wonder if this design was due to the problems you mentioned with using rear disc handbrakes, though surely that just transfers the problem from rear to front?

 

[JohnMcL7]

As far as I was aware (at least on car's I've used) the rear disc isn't for the handbrake, there's an additional drum that's used for it so the heat of the disc and it cooling has no effect. I've never seen or heard of a car within the last couple of decades with a working handbrake rolling away and if concerned about reliability, I'd take a simple handbrake over the complexity of an e-brake any day of the week as I've seen far more issues with malfunctioning e-brakes.

 

[PG]

I've never seen or heard of a car within the last couple of decades with a working handbrake rolling away

I'm fairly sure certain Vauxhall models within the last 20 years were known to have problems with (manual) handbrakes that would magically let go...

 

[JohnMcL7]

I'm fairly sure certain Vauxhall models within the last 20 years were known to have problems with (manual) handbrakes that would magically let go...

I've had a look and the only one coming up is a fault with a single model of corsa if the handbrake wasn't properly applied, that's absolutely dwarfed by the number of search results for problems with e-brakes for a range of Vauxhall vehicles. So if concerned about your handbrake reliability, a normal handbrake is the way to go.

 

[richw]

Do you just leave it in gear, or is it an auto so you just use the park setting? One thing I've noticed is that outside the UK people seem more likely to park in gear than use the handbrake. Even the Americans call it an 'emergency brake'.

Mine has an automatic hand brake. It engages as soon as I come to a stand still and disengages when I tap the throttle.
When it went for MOT the tester turned the feature off for testing the brake system, I didn’t notice for a few days but as it’s auto it wasn’t the end of the world being parked in park. If I drive another vehicle now I have to really think about the hand brake

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Because you'd have to sit on top of it?

My reply was to someone who is medically exempt from wearing it.

I'm surprised such exemptions are allowed. Without wishing to sound insensitive, if you're unrestrained and involved in a high speed collision, you become a projectile.

 

[DustyBin]

My dad had a Citroen BX back in the 80's which IIRC was discs all round but the handbrake operated on the front wheels. I wonder if this design was due to the problems you mentioned with using rear disc handbrakes, though surely that just transfers the problem from rear to front?

I think that’s just typical of French eccentricity when it comes to automotive design and engineering! As per my previous post, a rear disc handbrake isn’t generally problematic, but moving it to the front simply exacerbates the potential issue(s).

As far as I was aware (at least on car's I've used) the rear disc isn't for the handbrake, there's an additional drum that's used for it so the heat of the disc and it cooling has no effect. I've never seen or heard of a car within the last couple of decades with a working handbrake rolling away and if concerned about reliability, I'd take a simple handbrake over the complexity of an e-brake any day of the week as I've seen far more issues with malfunctioning e-brakes.

Again, our (modern) cars all use the rear caliper and disc; it’s (largely) manufacturer dependant.

 

[AndrewP]

The only features I don't like on my car which has more toys than Hamleys are

• The flappy paddles for the gearbox - if I'd wanted a manual I'd have bought one
• Built in WiFi - why pay for another SIM when phones have it

Other than that I like the toys and will likely have more on the next one - heated, cooled and massage seats? Yes please

 

[MattA7]

You could probably work around that by getting a buckle from a scrappy and just leaving it permanently in the socket.

Although getting a buckle from a scrappy is a good idea I have also remembered the time I had a mechanic tell me to just cut the buckle from the drivers seatbelt and plug it in. I couldn’t believe how ridiculous such suggestion was apart from the fact it would stop anyone else driving the car if need be it would also be a automatic MOT failure.

Made me hesitant to use that garage again made me wonder what they get up to under the bonnet. Especially as it wasn’t the only ludicrous suggestion they came away with regarding other issues with the vehicle.

 

[PG]

Made me hesitant to use that garage again made me wonder what they get up to under the bonnet. Especially as it wasn’t the only ludicrous suggestion they came away with regarding other issues with the vehicle.

Don't suppose they were known as Bodgit & Dodgit

 

[Zamracene749]

Agree with e-handbrakes and especially touch screens- I suffer from essential tremor and using them is a nightmare in a car. Ticket machines are an effing nightmare too, but that's a different thread.

Can I add cars that automatically do 3 or 4 sweeps of the screen every time you use the screen wash?
I do a lot of driving on a busy unlit dual carriageway (A19) and in winter when the road is damp and salty, I use loads of screenwash. The trouble is, after each press of the washer the wipers clean the screen, wipe away the muck and washer fluid but then continue wiping - smearing salt all over the screen grr!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agree with e-handbrakes and especially touch screens- I suffer from essential tremor and using them is a nightmare in a car. Ticket machines are an effing nightmare too, but that's a different thread.

Can I add cars that automatically do 3 or 4 sweeps of the screen every time you use the screen wash?
I do a lot of driving on a busy unlit dual carriageway (A19) and in winter when the road is damp and salty, I use loads of screenwash. The trouble is, after each press of the washer the wipers clean the screen, wipe away the muck and washer fluid but then continue wiping - smearing salt all over the screen grr!

And indicators that if you tap them do three flashes. This sort of thing is because "edge detection", i.e. detecting when something is pressed, is easier than "state detection", i.e. detecting it remaining pressed, when you're doing software based control systems.

 

[tomuk]

And indicators that if you tap them do three flashes. This sort of thing is because "edge detection", i.e. detecting when something is pressed, is easier than "state detection", i.e. detecting it remaining pressed, when you're doing software based control systems.

No it isn't their convenience features, the extra wipes of the windscreen are to reduce dribbles from the screen wash particularly on some cars with a poor overlap of wiper arms and the indicator flashes are for lane changes so you hand is off the steering wheel for no\little time. If the manoeuvre from lane to lane is gentle traditional indicators might not auto cancel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No it isn't their convenience features, the extra wipes of the windscreen are to reduce dribbles from the screen wash particularly on some cars with a poor overlap of wiper arms and the indicator flashes are for lane changes so you hand is off the steering wheel for no\little time. If the manoeuvre from lane to lane is gentle traditional indicators might not auto cancel.

I prefer to cancel my indication manually when I have decided I no longer need it, and to decide myself how many windscreen wiper sweeps I want when washing the screen. Though on the latter if the OP is getting a lot of smearing they probably want to use a better washer solution or change the blades.

 

[Zamracene749]

I prefer to cancel my indication manually when I have decided I no longer need it, and to decide myself how many windscreen wiper sweeps I want when washing the screen. Though on the latter if the OP is getting a lot of smearing they probably want to use a better washer solution or change the blades.

Bosch (Mercedes) blades and Prestone washer fluid. I was told that the road salt has something added nowadays to stop it from washing away from the surface so easily, plus of course living 'oop north' they put loads of the stuff down. Recently the spray seems to stick to the screen like white emulsion paint

 

[dangie]

While we’re on wiper blades.
Wiper blades which are mounted either side of the car, so that one blade is going left to right and the other right to left. I’m convinced one day they’ll meet in the middle.

 

[PG]

While we’re on wiper blades.
Wiper blades which are mounted either side of the car, so that one blade is going left to right and the other right to left. I’m convinced one day they’ll meet in the middle.

Try driving a bus, where quite often (especially on older buses) the wipers were very much added as an afterthought and would crash together every 4 or 5 seconds! Alternatively they'd self park right in the middle of your field of vision...

 

[MotCO]

While we’re on wiper blades.
Wiper blades which are mounted either side of the car, so that one blade is going left to right and the other right to left. I’m convinced one day they’ll meet in the middle.

I know what you mean, but the wiper blades are different lengths, and I assume the motors are so timed/linked so they should not hit.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know what you mean, but the wiper blades are different lengths, and I assume the motors are so timed/linked so they should not hit.

Normally it's one motor with some sort of gearing connecting it together, so short of the teeth wearing out and so one gear "jumping" (as happened on my old Land Rover Defender) they physically can't end up touching, if you stop one the other stops too. Some modern cars might do this with software but I doubt many do.

 

[dangie]

I know what you mean, but the wiper blades are different lengths, and I assume the motors are so timed/linked so they should not hit.

It was not meant seriously that they’d meet in the middle, I guess that won’t happen. I must admit though, that on a visual level I do prefer wiper blades which both go in the same direction at the same time. Our Ford Kuga has opposite direction wipers and it took me a while to get used to it, not that I like it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was not meant seriously that they’d meet in the middle, I guess that won’t happen. I must admit though, that on a visual level I do prefer wiper blades which both go in the same direction at the same time. Our Ford Kuga has opposite direction wipers and it took me a while to get used to it, not that I like it.

Never bothered me provided they work. Though the thing I find odd about the Kuga is how they only "dock" when you turn them off, if you have them on intermittent they sit slightly above the "docked" position, which could slightly affect visibility of a small child through the front by obscuring the very bottom of the windscreen, so it seems a strange design choice.

 

[DustyBin]

Never bothered me provided they work. Though the thing I find odd about the Kuga is how they only "dock" when you turn them off, if you have them on intermittent they sit slightly above the "docked" position, which could slightly affect visibility of a small child through the front by obscuring the very bottom of the windscreen, so it seems a strange design choice.

The Focus is the same, in MK3 form anyway. It is as you say an odd feature!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Focus is the same, in MK3 form anyway. It is as you say an odd feature!

I can't decide if I think it's deliberate as a "look what we can do" feature or if it was a software bug fix to deal with them perhaps clashing if they entered the docked position with too much momentum.

 

[DustyBin]

I can't decide if I think it's deliberate as a "look what we can do" feature or if it was a software bug fix to deal with them perhaps clashing if they entered the docked position with too much momentum.

My understanding is that because they aren't physically connected it provides a safe calibration point where they won't damage the rear of the bonnet if they collide. The whole system is surprisingly clever; if for example you manually cross them over they'll correct themselves when next used. There's also the service/winter mode which you may or may not be aware of?

 

[Bletchleyite]

My understanding is that because they aren't physically connected it provides a safe calibration point where they won't damage the rear of the bonnet if they collide. The whole system is surprisingly clever; if for example you manually cross them over they'll correct themselves when next used.

Ah. Makes sense, but is a lot more complex than just having a single mechanism where they're physically connected!

There's also the service/winter mode which you may or may not be aware of?

No, not aware of that, when I've changed them I've normally just turned the engine off with them vertical. (Slightly surprised turning the engine off doesn't automatically dock them). What do you press to get that?

 

[DustyBin]

Ah. Makes sense, but is a lot more complex than just having a single mechanism where they're physically connected!



No, not aware of that, when I've changed them I've normally just turned the engine off with them vertical. (Slightly surprised turning the engine off doesn't automatically dock them). What do you press to get that?

Just hold the stalk down within three seconds of turning off the ignition, and release it once the wipers are in the vertical position. I'm assuming here that the Focus and Kuga are the same!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just hold the stalk down within three seconds of turning off the ignition, and release it once the wipers are in the vertical position. I'm assuming here that the Focus and Kuga are the same!

Cheers!

 

[E27007]

I have never seen the point of alloy wheels, more expensive to make; difficult to clean & impossible to repair. Pressed steel wheels without a plastic cover are much more practical.

Lightweight wheels are a good thing, lower non-sprung weight is good for ride quality. Alloy wheels, I'm convinced they are actually heavier than the steel rim wheels they have replaced

 

[gg1]

Another two :

Electrically retractable door handles which are flush with the door panel when parked or driving but pop out when you want to open the door. Utterly pointless gimic that adds additional complication and possible point of failure.

Replacing door mirrors with cameras. My main concern with this is, based on my experience with reversing cameras, the image you see at night is notably worse than with a mirror. If that can be resolved I can see the benefit as a camera should be able to eliminate blind spots.

 

[DustyBin]

Lightweight wheels are a good thing, lower non-sprung weight is good for ride quality. Alloy wheels, I'm convinced they are actually heavier than the steel rim wheels they have replaced

There are two problems. Firstly, alloys tend to be much larger than steel wheels, and secondly, the overwhelming majority are cast. Cast alloy isn’t particularly strong so a large volume of material is required to produce a durable wheel.

Flow-formed alloys address the issue to an extent as the process produces a stronger material, which means less of it is required, which obviously means less weight. My last work car had flow-formed wheels and the spokes were particularly slender (which looks good too!).

The ultimate solution (as far as “traditional” alloys go) are forged wheels. I specced them on my Focus as an option, and despite being reasonably similar in appearance to the standard cast alloys they’re over 1kg lighter which is a lot in terms of un-sprung weight. Again, they look very nice as well!

Wheel tutorial over.