Silly question: Reverse Formation

[The North Briton]

Which of course would only be half the story - not to mention the fact that most people who couldn’t work out what “reverse formation” meant wouldn’t be able to work out which was “the London end”.

I think it would be a smaller subset of people who couldn’t work out that if First Class was at the front, then Standard would be at the (middle and) rear; or indeed an even smaller subset who couldn’t work out which end of the train was the ‘front’.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I think it would be a smaller subset of people who couldn’t work out that if First Class was at the front, then Standard would be at the (middle and) rear; or indeed an even smaller subset who couldn’t work out which end of the train was the ‘front’.

My best beloved always assumes I mean the end nearest the buffer stops when I refer to the front end of a train.

 

[The North Briton]

My best beloved always assumes I mean the end nearest the buffer stops when I refer to the front end of a train.

Well, if she’s getting off at a terminus, she would be correct

 

[trainophile]

I'm the one who has to ask platform staff or other passengers which direction it will be coming from, when there's an announcement that [my coach] will be at the front of the train. I'm sense-of-drectionally challenged.

 

[Taunton]

Apparently GW control were quite good at taking opportunities provided by the many triangular layouts on their network to make sure the sets found themselves the proper way round reasonable quickly.

I think they were told they had to be after the Southall accident, which could have been overcome with the failed AWS at one end on departure from Swansea by turning on the Landore triangle.

 

[route101]

The Avanti situation probably isn't helped by the Carstairs block causing services to/from Glasgow to need to reverse at Midcalder Junction.

Also recently I seem to remember there being a signalling problem between Wolverhampton and Birmingham New Street on the usual route via Sandwell etc. Which caused trains running Wolverhampton to Birmingham via Bescot and entering New Street via Perry Bar, Aston and Proof House Junction, before reversing at New Street towards London Euston.

I used Avanti from Glasgow and the reversal Southbound at Midcalder gets the set into correct formation.

 

[swt_passenger]

My journey Banbury to Newcastle is, of course, on board Cross-Country. The train runs into Birmingham New St. from the south, then comes back out the same way, but diverging onto the Derby line. Reverse procedure coming home.

The main XC routes also have many reversals at Reading, and they make no attempt to have their Voyagers running a particular way round. That seems to me to be a fundamental difference to the ECML where they almost always attempt to have a ‘normal’ formation - because their route happens to work that way.

 

[Ken H]

The main XC routes also have many reversals at Reading, and they make no attempt to have their Voyagers running a particular way round. That seems to me to be a fundamental difference to the ECML where they almost always attempt to have a ‘normal’ formation - because their route happens to work that way.

XC dont have a 'London' so the orientation of their trains doesnt matter. As long as the PIS can cope.

 

[TreacleMiller]

I once saw a GNER Kings Cross to Aberdeen service turned at Doncaster. It came under Balby Bridge and onto the Sheffield line at Bridge Jct and stopped alongside Hexthorpe Yard where it reversed and came into platform 8 via South Yorkshire Junction.
I wonder if such a move would still be allowed

Pretty sure I was told a 800 5 car has done that, will ask and check. It's one of the places where it "could" be done, provided knowledge was there for it. Obviously not possible with a 91/801. Highly doubt they'd bother.

As other posters have said, Hambleton for and Newcastle are the main methods.

Always fun on a platform when it's reversed and it's not pre-announced.

 

[XAM2175]

Which of course would only be half the story - not to mention the fact that most people who couldn’t work out what “reverse formation” meant wouldn’t be able to work out which was “the London end”.

Ahh, to be in Switzerland and hearing "First class in Sector D. Second class in Sectors A, B, and C. Restaurant in Sector C..."

 

[methethpropbut]

Hard luck if you've booked forward facing seats!

Or backward for that matter - there are people (myself included) that specifically prefer a backward facing seat!

 

[D1537]

Ahh, to be in Switzerland and hearing "First class in Sector D. Second class in Sectors A, B, and C. Restaurant in Sector C..."

Probably better than the LNER auto-announcements that they have currently. To give the example of my train on Saturday ...

Should say: "First class in zones 1 to 3, standard class in zones 4 to 9"

Computer voice (because of the stilted nature of it leaving gaps between all the numbers) says: "First class in zones 1 2 3, standard class in zones 4 2 9".

 

[12LDA28C]

I think it would be a smaller subset of people who couldn’t work out that if First Class was at the front, then Standard would be at the (middle and) rear; or indeed an even smaller subset who couldn’t work out which end of the train was the ‘front’.

You'd hope so, however I was once on a train where two teenage girls were sat in the bay opposite and as the train started to move, one of them asked the other 'which way is the front, I can't sit going backwards'. Unbelievable.

 

[Class800]

Or backward for that matter - there are people (myself included) that specifically prefer a backward facing seat!

Do you have them in your car? Passengers only of course

 

[johnnychips]

Probably better than the LNER auto-announcements that they have currently. To give the example of my train on Saturday ...

Should say: "First class in zones 1 to 3, standard class in zones 4 to 9"

Computer voice (because of the stilted nature of it leaving gaps between all the numbers) says: "First class in zones 1 2 3, standard class in zones 4 2 9".

I hear this in Doncaster a lot. Ironically, if it was a Yorkshire computer lass, it would be ‘zones 4 ter 9’ not 4 tooo 9’.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I'm the one who has to ask platform staff or other passengers which direction it will be coming from, when there's an announcement that [my coach] will be at the front of the train. I'm sense-of-drectionally challenged.

I suspect that's more common than you might think. So many times, both here and in other countries, I've been aware of passengers utterly confused by trains not entering/leaving stations in the direction they had expected. Some are rail novices who don't appreciate that railway routes do in fact use curves to reach their destination, some are used to using a terminus and are confused by through stations (and vice versa), some are used solely to underground trains and find open-air operations somewhat intimidating. All just different shades of human nature. It never does any harm for railways to use appropriate signage/announcements to provide reassurance. You might even call that good customer service!

 

[SouthEastBuses]

First class has been at the London end of services on most Intercity routes for a long time. A train on the East Coast Main Line is in reverse formation when first class is at the country end.

Nothing more complicated than that.

Of the Intercity routes into London, only the Midland has ever not really tried to keep first class at the London end in the last forty years.

When I travelled on first class on GWR on their Class 800/802s, first class was also at the front of the train, country end

Journey in question was Oxford to Hereford.

 

[Pigeon]

Which is the front of the train, when you're waiting for a Hereford-Birmingham service at Worcester Shrub Hill? hehe.

 

[edwin_m]

A passenger from Manchester to somewhere beyond Nottingham may hear an announcement to board the rear two coaches, then after Sheffield an announcement that they should be in the front two. Quite confusing if they don't notice the reversal in the meantime.

 

[trainophile]

It's quite amusing at Birmingham New Street - you get a crowded platform with half the people looking in one direction for the arrival of the train, and half looking the other way. Clearly many people are not confident they know where it will come from. Some people (me included) then start checking to see which direction everyone else is looking, in the hope that the majority have it sussed.

This can be particularly problematic when waiting for the Liverpool train to terminate and turn around (not literally!), as there are several stations with short platforms where we are told we need to be in the "front" four coaches.

 

[yorkie]

It's quite amusing at Birmingham New Street - you get a crowded platform with half the people looking in one direction for the arrival of the train, and half looking the other way. Clearly many people are not confident they know where it will come from. Some people (me included) then start checking to see which direction everyone else is looking, in the hope that the majority have it sussed.

In some cases, depending on the service, the arrival and/or departure direction could vary.

This can be particularly problematic when waiting for the Liverpool train to terminate and turn around (not literally!), as there are several stations with short platforms where we are told we need to be in the "front" four coaches.

In the case of a Liverpool train, it's a reasonable bet that the train is highly likely to be facing west on departure. For it to face east would be highly unlikely and any requirement to be in the front would not apply until there was ample time to get into the correct portion.

 

[TPO]

Which is the front of the train, when you're waiting for a Hereford-Birmingham service at Worcester Shrub Hill? hehe.

Or a XC train to Bristol or Cardiff from Derby......

Or a XC train to Bristol from Birmingham New Street.......

TPO

 

[61653 HTAFC]

XC dont have a 'London' so the orientation of their trains doesnt matter. As long as the PIS can cope.

TPE likewise... though often the PIS either can't cope, or has been incorrectly set up and nobody bothered to correct it. I'm sure it isn't actually as bad as it seems, but it feels like the PIS is wrong more often than right.

 

[trainophile]

In some cases, depending on the service, the arrival and/or departure direction could vary.

In the case of a Liverpool train, it's a reasonable bet that the train is highly likely to be facing west on departure. For it to face east would be highly unlikely and any requirement to be in the front would not apply until there was ample time to get into the correct portion.

This assumes I would have a clue which way was west! I really do need to master the compass on my phone .

 

[LAX54]

Reverse formation / Reverse Loaded can also mean on a train the divides en route Front part goes to A, rear part goes to B, reverse formation/loaded will mean that the Front part goes to B and the rear to A.

 

[isaashthomas]

This assumes I would have a clue which way was west! I really do need to master the compass on my phone .

I also discovered this one not long ago, it looks like it's a lot lighter than the ones from the 1970s

 

[greyman42]

Newcastle is the only place it can be done with an 801, and the only place it can be done with a 91+Mark 4 set without the assistance of a diesel loco. Bi-mode sets can do it in a few other locations, such as running from Leeds to Doncaster via Hambleton instead of Wakefield, or by leaving Edinburgh via Haymarket and the Suburban line instead of via Craigentinny.

What about the Shipley triangle?

 

[geoffk]

Here it looks like the train is in reverse formation because of out of course running, and the opportunity is being taken to put that right at Newcastle.

I think a XC train went in and out of Gloucester recently to turn it, because of a failed wiper at one end.

 

[greyman42]

when a train does a reversing move, as at Newcastle do the tell the passengers who may panic when the train leaves by the wrong end of the station

I don't recall it ever getting a mention. The 2250 Aberdeen to Leeds used to do it regularly (at Newcastle) when it took the diversionary route from York to Leeds via Normanton. This ensured the train arrived in Leeds the "right way around".

 

[route101]

Or backward for that matter - there are people (myself included) that specifically prefer a backward facing seat!

Why do you prefer backwards out of interest?