Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates

[Krokodil]

The realtime for these stations seems to autofill itself with a rough guess. The only reliable times logged would be Wrexham General, Penyffordd, Dee Marsh and Bidston

Hover over the timings in RTT (in desktop mode) and it'll tell you how they were submitted, whether automatically by the train describer, manually by the signaller entering it into TRUST, or automatically using the unit's GPS.

Looking at 2J92, all up to Shotton Paper Company are from the train describer, given the comments made above perhaps the sections don't line up well enough with the stations so TRUST is programmed to estimate timings or something. Dee Marsh enters timings manually (which presents an opportunity for the occasional human error). From Shotton to Gwersyllt the unit's GPS fills it in (surprisingly even at Penyffordd which I thought would be a manual entry). Then Croes Newydd fills in entries for General and Central.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Apr 2023 ==

How does Transport for Wales view these omissions of Wrexham Central?

It'll count as a part-cancellation in the performance statistics, which is worth 50% of a cancellation. The thing is that if you only look at the company-wide data, the 450-odd trains in the Cardiff Valleys will drown out the 40-odd North Wales Rural trains. The four-minute journey from Cardiff Queen Street to Cardiff Bay counts for exactly the same in the statistics as the nearly six hour train from Holyhead to Llanelli.

 

[390112A]

The guard panel layout is odd on these as the open buttons are vertical rather than horizontal like every other train so would certainly take a bit if getting used to!

I believe some drivers have racked up a few shifts on them now so I'd imagine you'd notice a bit of a difference if a more familiar driver is at the helm.

I did notice the vertical release buttons and thought it strange myself having only seen then horizontal on other units.

The difference was definitely noticeable and is hopefully a sign that time keeping will improve as more crew members become increasing familiar with them.

 

[L401CJF]

I did notice the vertical release buttons and thought it strange myself having only seen then horizontal on other units.

The difference was definitely noticeable and is hopefully a sign that time keeping will improve as more crew members become increasing familiar with them.

Also to be awkward they're in a different position on each panel, so some panels have the release on the left others on the right!

Hover over the timings in RTT (in desktop mode) and it'll tell you how they were submitted, whether automatically by the train describer, manually by the signaller entering it into TRUST, or automatically using the unit's GPS.

Looking at 2J92, all up to Shotton Paper Company are from the train describer, given the comments made above perhaps the sections don't line up well enough with the stations so TRUST is programmed to estimate timings or something. Dee Marsh enters timings manually (which presents an opportunity for the occasional human error). From Shotton to Gwersyllt the unit's GPS fills it in (surprisingly even at Penyffordd which I thought would be a manual entry). Then Croes Newydd fills in entries for General and Central.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Apr 2023 ==

Very interesting I wasn't aware of that! I've noticed a lot of the time it just logs as "No report" for the stations between Wrexham and Dee Marsh.

 

[Krokodil]

Very interesting I wasn't aware of that! I've noticed a lot of the time it just logs as "No report" for the stations between Wrexham and Dee Marsh.

The previous journey has no GPS entries at all. That happens a lot on the Conwy Valley Line with 15x, the GPS will work fine on the way to Blaenau but for some reason doesn't report anything on the way back. All appears fine onboard - the "we will shortly be arriving at..." works so the unit clearly knows where it is (when it doesn't, do a hard reset of TrainFX in whichever end is the master end, I think that it's the 52 car).

 

[Bob Price]

Same situation today. Loosing a couple of minutes on each run, started on time at Bidston, so by the time it gets to Wrexham 2 minutes late. Started on time going back but lost 4 by the time it reached Bidston. It's small amounts but with little ability to make time back it accumulates across the day.

 

[DLAYKEGER]

Same situation today. Loosing a couple of minutes on each run, started on time at Bidston, so by the time it gets to Wrexham 2 minutes late. Started on time going back but lost 4 by the time it reached Bidston. It's small amounts but with little ability to make time back it accumulates across the day.

At least it is better today so far compared to yestrrday.

 

[Chris125]

For my trip only I would contribute to this to the unfamiliarity of operating the units on the part of the guard who almost hit themselves with the door at one station due to incorrectly pressing the close local door button instead of the door close button, the guard did not seem very familiar with the layout of the guard panel yet. Also due to the slow to operate doors a chain delay is created as the length of time it takes for the guard's local door to open means that it takes longer for the guard to release the doors which are also then slow to open.

Anyone know if guards can dispatch from the back cab? Seems a little quicker with the 484s, Island Line appeared to adopt it for late running services when there were similar struggles with timekeeping.

 

[L401CJF]

Anyone know if guards can dispatch from the back cab? Seems a little quicker with the 484s, Island Line appeared to adopt it for late running services when there were similar struggles with timekeeping.

They can, although the cab doors are even slower!

 

[L401CJF]

Having spoken to some staff in the know today - the first round trip was driven by a driver who had racked up a fair few hours on them now. The small delays on the first trip are typical for the line.

The second round trip the driver hadnt driven one in service before so it lost a few more minutes due to cautious driving (plus it was raining which means even more caution!)

The third round trip didn't lose or gain much time as it was driven by another driver who had experience with the 230 already- however terminated short at WRX due to lack of relief guard which subsequently lead to the cancellation of trip number 4.

 

[Dan G]

Sounds like a good service is in prospect once staff have gained experience on the units .

 

[L401CJF]

I had the pleasure of working 230010 in service yesterday. So thought I would report my findings.

The doors are slow, but no slower than some of the 150s. If you're efficient at stations it doesn't make much of an impact on timing in comparison to the old stock. It took me a while to get used to the different guard panel layout but quickly got into the swing of things, from a Guards point of view they arnt much different to the old stock. It is a very tight fit at Buckley and Heswall however so takes a bit longer than with a 150 to double check the doors are definitely on the platform at each end.

There was a definite difference between drivers, one being cautious for their first run and the other having some experience on the 230 already - the second driver was giving it some full power starts and a bit braver on the brakes meaning time wasn't lost (or gained).

Loadings were fairly healthy considering its still a 2hourly service, a fair few spotters around having a ride but also a lot of locals onboard, very positive feedback on their "new" trains. I was surprised at how many of them commented on how nice they are!

No complaints about the delays presumably because they're used to the train running late (just as it has for the last 20 odd years) although I'm convinced it'll improve when the drivers are familiar with the stock.

The 230 gave no problems at all and hopefully it continues. For the time being there is a fitter onboard with a laptop who is on hand to deal with any faults should they occur. Once they've bedded into service a bit the onboard fitter will stay at the depot like with other stock.

I was also told we can expect more 230s cleared for use over the coming week or two, and to expect an hourly service from the May timetable change - apparently they have enough crew trained for 1 unit to run but not enough for 2 diagrams yet. Training continues this week.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Excellent, I'll try one out in July when things are more settled in my life (not a bad thing!)

 

[Dan G]

I had the pleasure of working 230010 in service yesterday. So thought I would report my findings.

The doors are slow, but no slower than some of the 150s. If you're efficient at stations it doesn't make much of an impact on timing in comparison to the old stock. It took me a while to get used to the different guard panel layout but quickly got into the swing of things, from a Guards point of view they arnt much different to the old stock. It is a very tight fit at Buckley and Heswall however so takes a bit longer than with a 150 to double check the doors are definitely on the platform at each end.

There was a definite difference between drivers, one being cautious for their first run and the other having some experience on the 230 already - the second driver was giving it some full power starts and a bit braver on the brakes meaning time wasn't lost (or gained).

Loadings were fairly healthy considering its still a 2hourly service, a fair few spotters around having a ride but also a lot of locals onboard, very positive feedback on their "new" trains. I was surprised at how many of them commented on how nice they are!

No complaints about the delays presumably because they're used to the train running late (just as it has for the last 20 odd years) although I'm convinced it'll improve when the drivers are familiar with the stock.

The 230 gave no problems at all and hopefully it continues. For the time being there is a fitter onboard with a laptop who is on hand to deal with any faults should they occur. Once they've bedded into service a bit the onboard fitter will stay at the depot like with other stock.

I was also told we can expect more 230s cleared for use over the coming week or two, and to expect an hourly service from the May timetable change - apparently they have enough crew trained for 1 unit to run but not enough for 2 diagrams yet. Training continues this week.

Thanks for the detailed report! That's great to hear.

 

[Techniquest]

Great to hear the positive feedback there, hopefully soon I will be up there to try the 230s out. Waiting for more than 1 230 to be out makes sense, and the timetable change is what, a month away? Hopefully by then I'll have more time for the 230s having completed some incredibly insane health and fitness challenges!

 

[D365]

The 230 gave no problems at all and hopefully it continues. For the time being there is a fitter onboard with a laptop who is on hand to deal with any faults should they occur. Once they've bedded into service a bit the onboard fitter will stay at the depot like with other stock.

Very glad to hear that a roaming fitter is still provisioned.

 

[CaergwrleKen]

Two trains working on The Borderlands today, including a Northern 150. First time that’s happened for quite some weeks

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Two trains working on The Borderlands today, including a Northern 150. First time that’s happened for quite some weeks

That will make for interesting comparative timing runs.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Two trains working on The Borderlands today, including a Northern 150. First time that’s happened for quite some weeks

RTT is showing it being entirely 150s (150259 and 150269)
Did 269 only just move to TfW or has it been there a while? I still have it under Northern. (edit: Raillog shows it already to have gone over, so that's probably a sign it didn't just move)

That will make for interesting comparative timing runs.

It would be even better if we could have them running on the same day so we could directly compare with the same conditions

 

[CaergwrleKen]

The Northern 150’s (269/270) have been on hire to TfW Rail for a while now, they were initially drafted in as cover for the 230s but have since been retained due to the Craven Arms accident which heavily damaged 2 other 150’s. You won’t need to compare any timings today as the 150’s will comfortably do the trip in the scheduled time plus Sundays timetable is slightly out of sink with weekdays.

 

[Zontar]

No class 230s showing working today. Poor. I really feel for the users. 5 units and can't even get one to work.

 

[OutdoorM]

Living near one of the stations, one positive for the 230 is that it is considerably quieter.

The doors do however appear very slow in comparison to the Merseyrail stock

 

[Bletchleyite]

The doors do however appear very slow in comparison to the Merseyrail stock

The slow doors are a serious flaw. Perhaps TfW and Island Line should consider collaborating to have a new faster electric mechanism designed and manufactured. The almighty slam when the doors close (because Vivarail removed the "catching" device for some reason I don't quite understand*) must also be causing damage, it makes Desiro doors sound quiet.

* On LU they moved much quicker but then a catching device stopped them just before closing so the last inch or two would be done slowly and softly, very similar to the doors on PEP units. Vivarail modified them so they move a bit slower but slam hard. I'm really not sure why.

 

[CaergwrleKen]

Nothing running today, one of the staff said only 2 out of 5 of them work and there’s faults with them as well so they aren’t in service today, pathetic

 

[Zontar]

I agree. How long will the public have to suffer until they accept they simply aren't going to ever work?

 

[Anonymous10]

I agree. How long will the public have to suffer until they accept they simply aren't going to ever work?

Unfortunately it'll also come down to if they have any other stock available

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The slow doors are a serious flaw. Perhaps TfW and Island Line should consider collaborating to have a new faster electric mechanism designed and manufactured. The almighty slam when the doors close (because Vivarail removed the "catching" device for some reason I don't quite understand*) must also be causing damage, it makes Desiro doors sound quiet.

Makes travelling on Island Line painful. I also don't get why the guard can't just close his door immediately like on a 450, rather than repeating the same slow "beeping first" process.

 

[Zontar]

Unfortunately it'll also come down to if they have any other stock available

The warning signs were very obvious 4 years ago when they should have been in service but were still being built. Where was the much needed plan b?

 

[GC class B1]

I had the pleasure of working 230010 in service yesterday. So thought I would report my findings.

The doors are slow, but no slower than some of the 150s. If you're efficient at stations it doesn't make much of an impact on timing in comparison to the old stock. It took me a while to get used to the different guard panel layout but quickly got into the swing of things, from a Guards point of view they arnt much different to the old stock. It is a very tight fit at Buckley and Heswall however so takes a bit longer than with a 150 to double check the doors are definitely on the platform at each end.

There was a definite difference between drivers, one being cautious for their first run and the other having some experience on the 230 already - the second driver was giving it some full power starts and a bit braver on the brakes meaning time wasn't lost (or gained).

Loadings were fairly healthy considering its still a 2hourly service, a fair few spotters around having a ride but also a lot of locals onboard, very positive feedback on their "new" trains. I was surprised at how many of them commented on how nice they are!

No complaints about the delays presumably because they're used to the train running late (just as it has for the last 20 odd years) although I'm convinced it'll improve when the drivers are familiar with the stock.

The 230 gave no problems at all and hopefully it continues. For the time being there is a fitter onboard with a laptop who is on hand to deal with any faults should they occur. Once they've bedded into service a bit the onboard fitter will stay at the depot like with other stock.

I was also told we can expect more 230s cleared for use over the coming week or two, and to expect an hourly service from the May timetable change - apparently they have enough crew trained for 1 unit to run but not enough for 2 diagrams yet. Training continues this week.

I think you were the guard on my first journey on a TfW class 230 on Friday. I boarded the 12.34 at Bidston which was about 8 minutes late. We spoke about the banging noise from the gangway tread plate.

 

[Invincible]

Being amongst the first UK hybrid diesel battery units, they are high profile.

Looks like TFW will persist with sorting out the 230s

Wrexham-Bidston could 'improve' in the near future. - Liverpool News

Source

ukdaily.news

Marie Daly, Chief Customer and Culture Officer at Transport for Wales said: “We understand the frustrations of the Wrexham Bidston Rail Users’ Association and have met with them to discuss their concerns.
“We are having capacity issues across the network as our Class 175 trains require additional maintenance but some of these trains are already back in service and the first of the Class 230 trains started running on the Wrexham – Bidston route last week, we hope that the level of service will improve in the near future.”

Are Stadler also maintaining the current 175s and 230s as well as the new 231s?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Being amongst the first UK hybrid diesel battery units, they are high profile.

The battery side is a whole new dimension, not yet deployed.