Major signaling issues at London Waterloo [13/04]

[infobleep]

I think this is the right forum but if not apologies. There are major signalling issues at London Waterloo today. I wonder what the issue is. They may still be trying to figure that bit out. It started overnight. Advise is not to travel.

I note for some services they are cancelled completely throughout. Not even a shuttle is provided. For example, Weymouth to London Waterloo is cancelled throughout, rather than a shuttle to Bournemouth or Southampton. Guildford to London Waterloo via Epsom also cancelled throughout.

Others not shown as proposing a service but a limited service is running.

Description

Due to a fault with the signalling system at London Waterloo some lines are blocked.

What's Going On
Train services running to and from this station may be cancelled, delayed or revised.

Major disruption is expected until the end of the day.

What We're Doing About It
Due to a major signalling problem we are advising customers not to attempt to travel to or from London Waterloo this morning.

Until further notice, a significantly reduced service will operate to and from London Waterloo on a very limited number of lines.

• 2 services per hour between Reading and London Waterloo
• 2 services per hour between Windsor & Eton Riverside and London Waterloo
• 2 services per hour between Weybridge and London Waterloo via Staines
• 2 services per hour between Shepperton and London Waterloo via Richmond
• 2 services per hour between Ascot and Aldershot
• 2 services per hour between Farnham and Guildford
• 1 service per hour between Portsmouth and Southampton
• 1 service per hour between Salisbury and Romsey via Southampton Central
• 2 services per hour between Brockenhurst and Lymington Pier
• 1 train per hour between Exeter St Davids and Wimbledon
• West of England Shuttles between Basingstoke and Salisbury will run as booked
• Queenstown Road will not be served

Disruption will affect other services on the wider network so please check before you travel.

Engineers are working to restore signalling however we expect disruption to last for most of the day.

National Rail Enquiries - Official source for UK train times and timetables

m.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[alholmes]

Looking at track diagrams it appears the main lines are blocked between Queenstown Road and Waterloo, with only the Windsor lines available, and platforms 1-14 not in use at Waterloo.

 

[infobleep]

The issue is a power failure.

We’ve suffered a major power failure to signalling equipment at @LondonWaterloo that means fewer than half the station platforms are usable by trains.
We are advising @SW_Help customers not to travel to or from Waterloo this morning as the disruption is severe.

Our team is on site tracing the fault, which occurred before 0400, but even if it is fixed soon disruption is likely across the network for some time.
Again - please do not travel into or out of Waterloo this morning.
We will update you when there is better news.

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailWssx/status/1646382380230352896?t=oHy2UWrViVJzZ7_3ah0uYw&s=19

 

[duncanp]

I wonder how they can provide a service between Brockenhurst and Lymington, but not a service on the main line from Brockenhurst onwards.

I understand that the normal timetable will be disrupted, but surely it would be possible to run something as far as Basingstoke.

Are Cross Country running from Bournemouth, because if so they will be very crowded.

 

[The Planner]

I wonder how they can provide a service between Brockenhurst and Lymington, but not a service on the main line from Brockenhurst onwards.

I understand that the normal timetable will be disrupted, but surely it would be possible to run something as far as Basingstoke.

Are Cross Country running from Bournemouth, because if so they will be very crowded.

Because its an independent shuttle and doesnt need to use the main line. I expect options are being looked at on the fly to get trains as close to London as possible.

 

[BenS123]

Mainline services are starting to be reinstated according to SWR journeycheck

South Western Railway JourneyCheck - Train times and live real time delay/cancellation/disruption information.

Find cheap advance train tickets to Bournemouth and explore our fantastic destination guide to Bournemouth for some great ideas for your perfect day out.

journeycheck.com

 

[Falcon1200]

Are Cross Country running from Bournemouth, because if so they will be very crowded.

They are, but only two-hourly.

 

[BenS123]

It seems like the xx02 Bournemouth to Winchester shuttles are running, I've got to get to Southampton today so I'll see how busy it is

 

[Edsmith]

The 06.55 from Yeovil Pen Mill is terminating at Wimbledon, the District Line will be busy!

 

[infobleep]

Because its an independent shuttle and doesnt need to use the main line. I expect options are being looked at on the fly to get trains as close to London as possible.

Not everyone wants to go to London Waterloo. For example, some people might wish to travel from Weymouth to Bournemouth, which isn't close to London.

Again someone might want to go from Portsmouth to Guildford. I accept Guildford is closer to London than Bournemouth.

 

[BenS123]

Not everyone wants to go to London Waterloo. For example, some people might wish to travel from Weymouth to Bournemouth, which isn't close to London.

Indeed, I read a while ago (can't remember where) that Bournemouth to Southampton Central was one of the (if not the) most popular flows on the line

 

[Surreytraveller]

I wonder how they can provide a service between Brockenhurst and Lymington, but not a service on the main line from Brockenhurst onwards.

I understand that the normal timetable will be disrupted, but surely it would be possible to run something as far as Basingstoke.

Are Cross Country running from Bournemouth, because if so they will be very crowded.

It takes planners weeks or months to organise a timetable for known engineering works.
It will therefore be impossible for controllers to rewrite a day's timetable with two or less hours notice

 

[traingeek97]

Can’t help but think it doesn’t make sense for them to still run two trains an hour from Reading and Windsor given both towns are also served by GWR. Why not cancel those in favour of making more room on the lines that are open for services from destinations that are not also served by another operator?

 

[The Planner]

Not everyone wants to go to London Waterloo. For example, some people might wish to travel from Weymouth to Bournemouth, which isn't close to London.

Again someone might want to go from Portsmouth to Guildford. I accept Guildford is closer to London than Bournemouth.

And has been alluded to above, a plan isnt available at the drop of a hat.

 

[pompeyfan]

Can’t help but think it doesn’t make sense for them to still run two trains an hour from Reading and Windsor given both towns are also served by GWR. Why not cancel those in favour of making more room on the lines that are open for services from destinations that are not also served by another operator?

That wouldn’t particularly help as the pinch point is actually Queenstown ladder.

SWRs service recovery and contingency planning on mainline services always seems particularly long winded. Is there any reason for this?

 

[mpellatt]

And down lines blocked just before Worting Jn too?
Not a good day.

 

[markle]

It takes planners weeks or months to organise a timetable for known engineering works.
It will therefore be impossible for controllers to rewrite a day's timetable with two or less hours notice

I understand the timetabling complexity, but as a layperson I'd have expected that there were contingency plans for disruption at / near waterloo, given the significant network-wide impact.

If they really are having to write timetables from scratch under such an eventuality it would imply no / limited contingency planning from SWR, which seems very shortsighted.

 

[Alex C.]

I understand the timetabling complexity, but as a layperson I'd have expected that there were contingency plans for disruption at / near waterloo, given the significant network-wide impact.

If they really are having to write timetables from scratch under such an eventuality it would imply no / limited contingency planning from SWR, which seems very shortsighted.

I think that sounds good in theory and actually they do have well rehearsed contingency plans for many situations. The problem is that no plan can ever account for everything. My understanding is it's platforms 1-14 completely unusable at London Waterloo at the moment but what if:

- It was fewer or more platforms affected
- The issue happened after service started (and at any point, mid-morning, mid-afternoon, evening peak)
- The issues meant trains had to be cautioned so capacity was limited rather than completely cut
- There are engineering teams who need access to the tracks to work around

Change any of these variables and you find that any plan goes out of the window. I understand contingency planning took place this morning including provision for very limited mainline services going into Waterloo but this was later found to be unworkable and all mainline services were suspended. Some of the communications around this hasn't been ideal.

I would love to see SWR (and other operators) properly write up a post incident review to understand what went wrong, what they did to fix it and also to help customers and what lessons they're learning. I'd also like more transparency on what the problem is and how they're trying to fix it but I get that no operator would want to publish that information.

 

[markle]

I think that sounds good in theory and actually they do have well rehearsed contingency plans for many situations. The problem is that no plan can ever account for everything. My understanding is it's platforms 1-14 completely unusable at London Waterloo at the moment but what if:

- It was fewer or more platforms affected
- The issue happened after service started (and at any point, mid-morning, mid-afternoon, evening peak)
- The issues meant trains had to be cautioned so capacity was limited rather than completely cut
- There are engineering teams who need access to the tracks to work around

Change any of these variables and you find that any plan goes out of the window. I understand contingency planning took place this morning including provision for very limited mainline services going into Waterloo but this was later found to be unworkable and all mainline services were suspended. Some of the communications around this hasn't been ideal.

I would love to see SWR (and other operators) properly write up a post incident review to understand what went wrong, what they did to fix it and also to help customers and what lessons they're learning. I'd also like more transparency on what the problem is and how they're trying to fix it but I get that no operator would want to publish that information.

The main issue is that all four SWML tracks are blocked at Battersea / Vauxhall.

The way you'd contingency plan for stuff like this is assume a major blockage on either the Windsor and SW main lines at / near Waterloo, determine what services you could operate on either line without running all the way into Waterloo. For less severe incidents you'd then scale the service up from that baseline.

Companies contingency plan for severe but plausible scenarios all the time. Especially for an essential public service I don't think it's too much to expect.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

BBC Radio 5 Live news saying that intending passengers should avoid Waterloo for the remainder of the day.

London Waterloo: Rail disruption to last until end of day

A significantly reduced service continues to operate and disruption is expected all day.

www.bbc.co.uk

Extracts...

Rail passengers have been urged to avoid London Waterloo after major signalling problems, with disruption expected until the end of the day.

South Western Railway (SWR) has issued the warning for customers attempting to travel to and from the station, which is the busiest in Britain.

A significantly reduced service is operating on a very limited number of lines.

Fourteen out of its 24 platforms are currently closed, the rail firm said.

 

[Goldfish62]

It takes planners weeks or months to organise a timetable for known engineering works.
It will therefore be impossible for controllers to rewrite a day's timetable with two or less hours notice

Controllers don't rewrite timetables. They regulate services when things go wrong, like now!

 

[zwk500]

The main issue is that all four SWML tracks are blocked at Battersea / Vauxhall.

The way you'd contingency plan for stuff like this is assume a major blockage on either the Windsor and SW main lines at / near Waterloo, determine what services you could operate on either line without running all the way into Waterloo. For less severe incidents you'd then scale the service up from that baseline.

Companies contingency plan for severe but plausible scenarios all the time. Especially for an essential public service I don't think it's too much to expect.

There are contingency plans for various scenarios, but each one requires modification to fit the exact circumstances and they're very much 'best guesses' rather than full timetables sitting in a file ready to be used.

 

[Goldfish62]

There are contingency plans for various scenarios, but each one requires modification to fit the exact circumstances and they're very much 'best guesses' rather than full timetables sitting in a file ready to be used.

Exactly. A service control strategy as per what competent bus operators use.

For example yesterday there was a tree blocking the line between Ascot and Martins Heron for several hours. Trains were turned back at Virginia Water, Ascot and Staines. That didn't require a timetable rewrite.

 

[Meerkat]

So I understand the issues......why can't the mainline services be thinned out and bounced back at Clapham Junction or elsewhere?
Hordes of people commute into places like Woking, Basingstoke, and Guildford - just dropping the service doesn't seem entirely competent.
Has the power outage affected control of the mainline further out?

 

[LUYMun]

So I understand the issues......why can't the mainline services be thinned out and bounced back at Clapham Junction or elsewhere?
Hordes of people commute into places like Woking, Basingstoke, and Guildford - just dropping the service doesn't seem entirely competent.

The flow of passengers on the SWR network goes from said stations to London in the morning, so it is not feasible to terminate services there.

 

[jfollows]

So I understand the issues......why can't the mainline services be thinned out and bounced back at Clapham Junction or elsewhere?
Hordes of people commute into places like Woking, Basingstoke, and Guildford - just dropping the service doesn't seem entirely competent.
Has the power outage affected control of the mainline further out?

NRE (https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/322812.aspx) has

• 1 train per hour between Exeter St Davids and Wimbledon

but I suspect there's very limited capability for doing more than this.
EDIT And Clapham Junction doesn't have the signals (I see zwk500 has made the same point).

 

[zwk500]

So I understand the issues......why can't the mainline services be thinned out and bounced back at Clapham Junction or elsewhere?
Hordes of people commute into places like Woking, Basingstoke, and Guildford - just dropping the service doesn't seem entirely competent.
Has the power outage affected control of the mainline further out?

No signalling to turn back at Clapham on the SWML. They'd need to shunt in and out of the yard, which means acceptance and knowledge need to be in place.

 

[jfollows]

1L32 08:23 Exeter-Waterloo has just terminated at Wimbledon in the up slow platform, it can reverse there (see https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L21743/2023-04-13/detailed#allox_id=0).
Signal diagram from https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/wi_3#LINK_1 at 11:47.

EDIT In fact it didn't reverse there, it's continued on the up slow, up fast to Clapham. I believe that some lines have reopened now so it's probably able to go to Waterloo.

 

[Snow1964]

The flow of passengers on the SWR network goes from said stations to London in the morning, so it is not feasible to terminate services there.

No, only some of the flow go to Waterloo.
Not everyone works in Central London, always been commuter flows to other locations.

But there has always been contingency plans to reverse trains or stop them short
Exeter trains at Basingstoke
Bournemouth / Portsmouth trains at Wimbledon or Surbiton
Shepperton trains at Kingston
Dorking trains at Raynes Park etc.

Not quite sure why you would stop all trains in say Southampton area when the problem is 60 miles away.

 

[Goldfish62]

All lines reopened at 10:45 - message from internal source.