Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates

[LNW-GW Joint]

Bbc wales says its rrb all day?

Well, RTT now says for the next leg (0834) the train is still "at platform" at Bidston.
Maybe it will form the next planned service (1034 ex Bidston)?
Or maybe not.

 

[Vespa]

Looks it may or may not be running getting 3 different information RTT, National Rail and station display.

At platform to see what happens, my ENCTS will take me to Heswall, not worth buying a ticket in case it's cancelled.

Edit to add@10.21: train now officially cancelled, good thing I didn't buy a ticket.

 

[meld3]

Purpose
Fit
Not
For

 

[Bertie the bus]

On the plus side, at least thoughts have turned away from whether they can keep to time or not.

 

[OutdoorM]

On the Wirral section, passenger numbers are poor because you just can't trust the service to get you to work at a reasonable time (and more importantly) you cant trust what time the return will actually be at Bidston to connect to so as to get home.

Hopefully, as the 230's become more established they can meet the timetable - then its just time to wait and see what the 30min timetable looks like during the rush hour period. Will they actually be 30 min service when people need them to be, or will they be the trains impacted by the cement trains???

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Cancelled all day again tomorrow

 

[Bertie the bus]

Hopefully, as the 230's become more established they can meet the timetable - then its just time to wait and see what the 30min timetable looks like during the rush hour period. Will they actually be 30 min service when people need them to be, or will they be the trains impacted by the cement trains???

I think you need to be realistic. There isn't going to be a 30 minute service with the 230s. A 30 minute service would require 4 out of the 5 units in service at any one time and that isn't going to happen.

 

[Foxcover]

On the Wirral section, passenger numbers are poor because you just can't trust the service to get you to work at a reasonable time (and more importantly) you cant trust what time the return will actually be at Bidston to connect to so as to get home.

Hopefully, as the 230's become more established they can meet the timetable - then its just time to wait and see what the 30min timetable looks like during the rush hour period. Will they actually be 30 min service when people need them to be, or will they be the trains impacted by the cement trains???

Re the non acceptance of e tickets, Merseyrail's policy is an out dated joke. I presume it is that way so as to give more reasons to retain staff at the manned stations?

Unfortunately the evening peak from Bidston is badly affected by the pathing issue - from the draft timetable it would mean a departure from Liverpool shortly after 1700, and then quite a bit more than an hour until the next connecting departure.

I guess they will have considered it, but wouldn’t it have been great if they could have ‘trapped’ a unit north of the freight path conflict in the evening to do a couple of returns and keep the 30 mins frequency as far south as possible. Perhaps it couldn’t be done, perhaps lack of turn back facilities, but would be a shame if they had simply cancelled the diagram without looking at the option.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Apr 2023 ==

There’s plenty of infrastructure around the Hawarden Bridge area for example, and it’s not used by the freight path for the whole of the conflict.

 

[Krokodil]

I think you need to be realistic. There isn't going to be a 30 minute service with the 230s. A 30 minute service would require 4 out of the 5 units in service at any one time and that isn't going to happen.

Can't even manage a 120 minute service at the moment

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think you need to be realistic. There isn't going to be a 30 minute service with the 230s. A 30 minute service would require 4 out of the 5 units in service at any one time and that isn't going to happen.

Surely you may have forgotten that 2/4 are supposed to be 197 from May?

 

[DLAYKEGER]

Surely you may have forgotten that 2/4 are supposed to be 197 from May?

But which May? Is that 2024? as I doubt the 175 debacle will be over soon so no 197 will be available jn the short term, and the 230 make the 777 roll out look like an outstanding success

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

But which May? Is that 2024? as I doubt the 175 debacle will be over soon so no 197 will be available jn the short term, and the 230 make the 777 roll out look like an outstanding success

The 230s are not rolling out very well at this moment in time. Incidentally, once the first 230 was made subject to a graffiti attack, you would have thought that rest of the "micro-fleet" would have received better protection.

 

[D821]

The 230s are not rolling out very well at this moment in time. Incidentally, once the first 230 was made subject to a graffiti attack, you would have thought that rest of the "micro-fleet" would have received better protection.

I'm just looking at 006 now as I roll past it, they've still not cleaned it off.

 

[L401CJF]

The 230s are not rolling out very well at this moment in time. Incidentally, once the first 230 was made subject to a graffiti attack, you would have thought that rest of the "micro-fleet" would have received better protection.

Security was put in place after the first tagging to ensure 010 wasn't tagged for its first day in service.

To be honest im surprised they didn't get targeted earlier given how long they've been sat there!

 

[Bertie the bus]

Surely you may have forgotten that 2/4 are supposed to be 197 from May?

If they are bringing in 197s to operate 2/4 services that would suggest they should be able to operate 2/4 services, so still hourly.

 

[Dan G]

Any 230s running today?

 

[6Gtraincrew]

230010 is meant to be out today.

 

[rich.davies]

230010 is meant to be out today.

A minute or 2 down at the moment.

 

[Vespa]

Not holding my hopes up !

 

[DLAYKEGER]

Not holding my hopes up !

We can only hope. We need at lesst a week (including weekends) as a minimum to see if it can keep to schedule based on the performsnce so far.

Apparently only 11 class 175s need to come back hopefully that will mean a 150 gets released, to get us back to a hourly ish train service, as I doubt we will see 2 class 230 out soon in public service due to training runs. Does anybody know if 008 is running the training runs today as status not updated on RTT, or have they only got one operational 230

 

[CaergwrleKen]

We can only hope. We need at lesst a week (including weekends) as a minimum to see if it can keep to schedule based on the performsnce so far.

Apparently only 11 class 175s need to come back hopefully that will mean a 150 gets released, to get us back to a hourly ish train service, as I doubt we will see 2 class 230 out soon in public service due to training runs. Does anybody know if 008 is running the training runs today as status not updated on RTT, or have they only got one operational 230

There should be another unit available as they aren’t allowed to run unless there’s another one is available for rescue purposes

 

[Bob Price]

Looking at it so far it is a few minutes off scheduled times. Looks like it will be 6 minutes late into Wrexham General. If so then a better service today.

 

[DLAYKEGER]

I see there is a news story on deeside.com quoting tfw person saying they hope to get 2nd 230 out next week

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I see there is a news story on deeside.com quoting tfw person saying they hope to get 2nd 230 out next week

Full link: https://www.deeside.com/wrexham-bid...us-service-only-after-minor-technical-issues/

“We’ve experienced some minor technical issues which impacted services over the Easter weekend, and we’re now working to get these resolved, as well as introducing another Class 230 train next week.” ‌‌‌‌‌‌‍‌‌‌‌‌‍‌‌‌‌‌

Also talks about the vandalism:

Images circulating on social media show the train units covered in graffiti across large portions of their exteriors. ‌‌‌‌‌‌‍‌‌‌‌‌‍‌‌‌‌‌

Ms Course said: “Unfortunately, some of our new trains have already been vandalised, and we’ll be working closely with BTP to investigate further.” ‌‌‌‌‌‌‍‌‌‌‌‌‍‌‌‌‌‌

And keeping to time:

Dr Andrew Potter, Professor of Transport & Logistics at Cardiff University, said: “The concern will be whether the units are able to maintain the existing timetable… this might be challenging.” ‌‌‌‌‌‌‍‌‌‌‌‌‍‌‌‌‌‌

“Given the end-to-end journey times, there is little scope for catching up any late running.” ‌‌‌‌‌‌‍‌‌‌‌‌‍‌‌‌‌‌
“This then leads to journeys either running short, for example turning around at Wrexham General, or being cancelled altogether.” ‌‌‌‌‌‌‍‌‌‌‌‌‍‌‌‌‌‌
“Passengers want a reliable train service, and it will be important for the new trains to provide this.” ‌‌‌‌‌‌‍‌‌‌‌‌‍‌‌‌‌‌
“Once the units are in more regular service, it will be easier to assess if the issues on journey time can be addressed.” ‌‌‌‌‌‌‍‌‌‌‌‌‍‌‌‌‌‌

 

[Peter Sarf]

Full link: https://www.deeside.com/wrexham-bid...us-service-only-after-minor-technical-issues/

Also talks about the vandalism:

And keeping to time:

That is my view as well, wait for the trains and drivers to get bedded in.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

That is my view as well, wait for the trains and drivers to get bedded in.

Was that not the same aspirational case with the Vivarail mini fleet that were there on the Marston Vale line?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Was that not the same aspirational case with the Vivarail mini fleet that were there on the Marston Vale line?

I imagine so, and I think timekeeping improved over time. But I believe the diesel engines were not so happy on Marston vale - something that should be different with the borderlands 230s as these are different traction wise. Of course TfW are more committed to their 230s as they own theirs with Stadler (at Birkenhead) maintaining them. We shall see though how much things improve and how long it takes.

I am thinking about a separate thread discussing the various teething problems of new and innovative fleets. I will link it here when I am done.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The slow doors always caused lost time against 150 timings. TfW might do well to replace the mechanisms with faster electric ones.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Of course TfW are more committed to their 230s as they own theirs with Stadler (at Birkenhead) maintaining them. We shall see though how much things improve and how long it takes.

I was wondering who is the responsible party for security provision at the Birkenhead depot where the graffiti on these units occurred?

 

[Peter Sarf]

The slow doors always caused lost time against 150 timings. TfW might do well to replace the mechanisms with faster electric ones.

I must admit going back to the LU door mechanism seems an easy solution - I believe they were quicker in D78s ?.