Problems at ticket barriers with All Line Rover

[edgar13]

I have recently been using an All Line Rover, and at most of the barriered stations I visited across the country, the barriers fail to open and I have to show staff the ticket to be let through manually. Since this ticket covers the entire network I expected it to be able to open up any barrier except for those few stations with time restrictions, is there a reason for this not being the case?

Some occasions where the barriers did open are at London Kings Cross, Wigan Wallgate and Bournemouth. This seems quite random as I can't think of anything in common between these stations.

Today at Acton Main Line however, the barrier which didn't open in the morning did so in the afternoon, but along with opening the barrier it also "ate" the ALR. I almost had a heart attack and was very lucky that a staff was there to help retrieve it. I am still confused by how it happened, as I thought only tickets with that station as the final destination would be "eaten" to facilitate for breaks of journey and other allowances.

 

[AnyFile]

Some else, with more knowledge than me, will provide more information. The ticket barriers are not programmed to recognise all the types of the tickets. The same thing happened to me with a regional rover ticket.
It is possible that they have specifically added the information to recognise the All Line rover ticket to some barriers. A bit strange that a barrier "ate" your ticket. Lucky you were able to get it back

 

[Mcr Warrior]

A bit strange that a barrier "ate" your ticket. Lucky you were able to get it back

How would you actually "prove" the ALR waa yours?

Once had the ticket barriers at Euston Square (LU) swallow my (paper) Annual Gold Travelcard, and (perhaps not too unsurprisingly) I had to show staff my accompanying rail photocard before they were willing to hand back the duly retrieved ticket.

 

[edgar13]

How would you actually "prove" the ALR waa yours?

Thanks to the sensible staff who helped me with the purchase at Paddington, the ALR has my name after "Issued to" on the top orange bit.

Some else, with more knowledge than me, will provide more information. The ticket barriers are not programmed to recognise all the types of the tickets. The same thing happened to me with a regional rover ticket.
It is possible that they have specifically added the information to recognise the All Line rover ticket to some barriers. A bit strange that a barrier "ate" your ticket. Lucky you were able to get it back

Wonder the reason for the lack of consistency. The Anglia Plus Rover I used earlier this month had no issues opening any barriers at any stations within validity. Therefore I expected the ALR to do the same within its area of validity (i.e. all but the 10 stations with time restrictions).

 

[Flying Snail]

How would you actually "prove" the ALR waa yours?

Once had the ticket barriers at Euston Square (LU) swallow my (paper) Annual Gold Travelcard, and (perhaps not too unsurprisingly) I had to show staff my accompanying rail photocard before they were willing to hand back the duly retrieved ticket.

Some people seem to have enormous difficulty with simple logic; how could anyone but the person who inserted the ticket know that a specific gate had a specific type of ticket incorrectly retained?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Apr 2023 ==

Thanks to the sensible staff who helped me with the purchase at Paddington, the ALR has my name after "Issued to" on the top orange bit.

Wonder the reason for the lack of consistency. The Anglia Plus Rover I used earlier this month had no issues opening any barriers at any stations within validity. Therefore I expected the ALR to do the same within its area of validity (i.e. all but the 10 stations with time restrictions).

ALRs have never been able to open barriers much if at all.

Similarly Interrail, Eurail and Britrail do not scan on optical gates.

 

[HarryF]

At least you didn’t get told it wasn’t valid. In 2018 I was told at Manchester Victoria that it wasn’t valid as “only valid tickets work the barrier”. Had to catch a train to Piccadilly and exit there.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Similarly Interrail, Eurail and Britrail do not scan on optical gates.

These have a non RSP standard barcode on them.

 

[yorkie]

How would you actually "prove" the ALR waa yours?

Once had the ticket barriers at Euston Square (LU) swallow my (paper) Annual Gold Travelcard, and (perhaps not too unsurprisingly) I had to show staff my accompanying rail photocard before they were willing to hand back the duly retrieved ticket.

As no accompanying photo card is required for an ALR, they would not be able to ask for any evidence to be shown.

Some people seem to have enormous difficulty with simple logic; how could anyone but the person who inserted the ticket know that a specific gate had a specific type of ticket incorrectly retained?

Some of these people are certainly lacking in intelligence and logic, as well as customer service skills.

Similarly Interrail, Eurail and Britrail do not scan on optical gates.

Interrail do on some gates, but it's hit and miss.

 

[Class800]

As no accompanying photo card is required for an ALR, they would not be able to ask for any evidence to be shown.

Some of these people are certainly lacking in intelligence and logic, as well as customer service skills.

Interrail do on some gates, but it's hit and miss.

Could they ask for collection receipt/purchase receipt or would this be unreasonable?

 

[Haywain]

Some of these people are certainly lacking in intelligence and logic, as well as customer service skills.

You are being overly harsh here - there is nothing to say that there was any proof required or any difficulty in having staff rescue the ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could they ask for collection receipt/purchase receipt or would this be unreasonable?

They can ask for anything they like, but you don't have to provide it.

 

[Haywain]

Could they ask for collection receipt/purchase receipt or would this be unreasonable?

Just how many ALRs do you think the average station sees in a day?

 

[yorkie]

You are being overly harsh here - there is nothing to say that there was any proof required or any difficulty in having staff rescue the ticket.

Absolutely not being harsh; I said some people in these positions are like that. And I absolutely stand by that; bass not only on my own experience but of many others. If you disbelieve this, feel free to create a new thread where people can submit their evidence; I will have plenty.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Apr 2023 ==

Could they ask for collection receipt/purchase receipt or would this be unreasonable?

Totally unreasonable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Apr 2023 ==

They can ask for anything they like, but you don't have to provide it.

Indeed. But they really shouldn't be asking such questions as it's totally pointless.

 

[AnyFile]

At least you didn’t get told it wasn’t valid. In 2018 I was told at Manchester Victoria that it wasn’t valid as “only valid tickets work the barrier”. Had to catch a train to Piccadilly and exit there.

The logical conclusion of "only valid tickets work the barrier" is not that if the barrier does not open then the ticket is not valid. The logical conclusion is that if an invalid ticket is insert the barrier won't open (but this is a completely different think)

By the way this statement would imply that if I enter with an invalid ticket but the barrier opens then my ticket became valid (and as I believe this conclusion is not true, may be is better not to state that "only valid tickets work the barrier")

 

[BenS123]

I was told at Manchester Victoria that it wasn’t valid as “only valid tickets work the barrier”.

Apply that logic to Waterloo's gates at long distance platforms and it seems a lot of passengers suddenly don't have valid tickets!

Sadly this sounds like 'computer says no' logic from the Manchester Victoria staff which is concerning as barriers obviously do reject valid tickets all the time, and I can't even count the amount of times I've put a (valid) ticket into a gate for it to reject it.

Oddly enough, this has never happened to me at Bournemouth even though most of my journeys start or end there, and the OP said upthread their ALR was accepted at BMH.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

At least you didn’t get told it wasn’t valid. In 2018 I was told at Manchester Victoria that it wasn’t valid as “only valid tickets work the barrier”. Had to catch a train to Piccadilly and exit there.

Sadly this sounds like 'computer says no' logic from the Manchester Victoria staff which is concerning as barriers obviously do reject valid tickets all the time, and I can't even count the amount of times I've put a (valid) ticket into a gate for it to reject it.

Would you get very far if you were to request (politely but assertively) to speak to the (MCV) Station Manager in such circumstances? Having to get on a train over to Manchester Piccadilly seems akin to travelling on to London Charing Cross if the exit barriers at London Bridge weren't programmed or operating correctly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The logical conclusion of "only valid tickets work the barrier" is not that if the barrier does not open then the ticket is not valid. The logical conclusion is that if an invalid ticket is insert the barrier won't open (but this is a completely different think)

By the way this statement would imply that if I enter with an invalid ticket but the barrier opens then my ticket became valid (and as I believe this conclusion is not true, may be is better not to state that "only valid tickets work the barrier")

It's just because Northern's gateline staff are poorly trained cheap security guard thugs who can't cope with anything other than "computer says no". It really is appalling that this situation has been allowed to persist.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Apr 2023 ==

Would you get very far if you were to request (politely but assertively) to speak to the (MCV) Station Manager in such circumstances? Having to get on a train over to Manchester Piccadilly seems akin to travelling on to London Charing Cross if the exit barriers at London Bridge weren't programmed or operating correctly.

At a normal gateline I'd just barge through and walk off if a member of staff got shirty like that when I was completely certain my ticket was valid, unless BTP were actually stood there watching, in which case enlisting their help may be preferable to getting chased and stopped. Though I'm not sure about MCV's odd glass gateline, it may break rather than just letting you through?

 

[Segedunum]

At a normal gateline I'd just barge through and walk off if a member of staff got shirty like that when I was completely certain my ticket was valid, unless BTP were actually stood there watching, in which case enlisting their help may be preferable to getting chased and stopped. Though I'm not sure about MCV's odd glass gateline, it may break rather than just letting you through?

Having worked on a gateline with the same S&B gates - they'll just give way and bend open eventually. It depends how many times its been done before though. One has smashed before, but it took a heck of a lot of force from someone's foot to do that.

Back on topic, I had the same issue on my last ALR. Only Marylebone accepted the ticket which was a surprise!

I had the opposite problem to the one stated at Manchester Vic (at Southend Vic instead) where a gateline staff member refused to let me in. Instead he frogmarched me to a slightly bewildered ticket office clerk who asked what he was doing sending me to her when my ticket was valid. He thought the whole episode was hilarious - she didn't and neither did I...

 

[Watershed]

These have a non RSP standard barcode on them.

Interrail and Eurrail, yes, although Avanti have upgraded their gatelines to be able to scan them and so I'd expect other TOCs using Cubic gates to follow suit at some point.

Britrail e-tickets (or are they still m-ticket only?) have a standard rover-style RSP barcode that all barriers are supposed to have been programmed with. Evidently that's far from the case as most TOCs simply haven't bothered.

 

[Flying Snail]

Interrail and Eurrail, yes, although Avanti have upgraded their gatelines to be able to scan them and so I'd expect other TOCs using Cubic gates to follow suit at some point.

Britrail e-tickets (or are they still m-ticket only?) have a standard rover-style RSP barcode that all barriers are supposed to have been programmed with. Evidently that's far from the case as most TOCs simply haven't bothered.

Britrail are e-tickets, fulfilled as PDFs. Although they refer to them as m-ticket which AFAIK they never were.

The "they are the wrong barcodes" is a stupid justification, it is simply the addition of a bit of software to recognise and decode the different protocol for Interrail and as you say Britrail is a RDG product so the barcode used is no more foreign than any other ticket issued by a British TOC.

 

[Haywain]

Britrail e-tickets (or are they still m-ticket only?)

Officially, it's a Britrail M-Pass, and only for Britrail England.

 

[Vespa]

Re proof ownership of your ticket if the staff had to retrieve from the machine, if you take photo of the actual ticket and store it in your phone, it can make it a bit easier.

I do this and I avoided using the barriers for precisely this reason and during my recent trip to Manchester, I tend to politly say to the gate staff that I have a Wayfarer ticket could you let me through please, never had a bother in Manchester Victoria or Piccadilly.

 

[jfollows]

I've had "all of the above" with an all-line rover, they never work in ticket gates of course, so sometimes I've been able to show it and got "you're right, they never work in gates" and a smile - that was Reading - to a stubborn insistence that I put it through - Paddington of course. Occasionally it's "I've not seen one of these for a while" and sometimes it's "I don't have a clue what that is but I assume it's valid". I've never (yet) had a gate swallow one, though. Nor have I - ultimately - been prevented from using it albeit on some occasions I was only let pass with some reluctance.

 

[cool110]

At a normal gateline I'd just barge through and walk off if a member of staff got shirty like that when I was completely certain my ticket was valid, unless BTP were actually stood there watching, in which case enlisting their help may be preferable to getting chased and stopped. Though I'm not sure about MCV's odd glass gateline, it may break rather than just letting you through?

Given the layout of MCV it's probably easier to just jump off the metrolink platforms and run across the line to platform 1.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given the layout of MCV it's probably easier to just jump off the metrolink platforms and run across the line to platform 1.

I don't think running across the line is a good way to do anything bar (a) get squashed, or (b) get arrested.

 

[PeterY]

Although I haven't done an ALR since COVID, I also had all the above problems at gate lines. If all goes to plan (and the trains are running ) I intend to do one in mid May.

 

[warwickshire]

Don't put ticket through. But show it to barrier staff with accompanying I'd and name on top off ticket shouldn't be a issue. I have done this a few times with no issues.

 

[Flying Snail]

Officially, it's a Britrail M-Pass, and only for Britrail England.

Your info is well out of date, for over a year at least all Britrail are now offered as M-Pass, delivered as a PDF.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Day 1 of an ALR today. Gates that worked: 0/6. Gates that swallowed ticket: 0/6

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Day 1 of an ALR today. Gates that worked: 0/6. Gates that swallowed ticket: 0/6

Epic fail!

What were the various locations?