Charged by SWR

[small string]

Hi there,

I’ve received a letter notifying me I’ve been charged with contravening Byelaws 18 (1) and 24, asking me to return a plea to the court. Date of the letter being posted was 27 March 2023.

In November I got to my local station (Guildford) to travel to Waterloo, and the ticket machines on my side were broken. I asked the staff member to wave me through and said I’d get a ticket on the train. I’d often seen the guard selling tickets next to the train though I’d never bought one from them (I travel about twice a week, and I always buy a ticket from the machine).

At Waterloo I looked for the guard and couldn’t see them, then saw people with what looked like ticket machines at the gate, approached and said I needed a ticket and was promptly issued with a penalty notice. I was a bit flustered and cross, tried to plead my case - they told me that on the other side of the station there were working ticket machines, and asked me the name of the person who had waved me through the barriers. So I stopped trying to discuss it and accepted it, giving my details etc.

This is the stupid bit.

I’d been waiting for the letter, but didn’t see it come through. I was worried and even checked my bank acc as I couldn’t remember if I had paid it immediately or not. I saw a transaction which made me think I might have, so forgot about it.

The way we deal with post in our house is badly disorganised. Obviously I have just missed the previous letters I have been sent - in fact I found one under a pile in the study after a frantic search tonight.

Obv I don’t want a criminal record, work wise it wouldn’t affect me, but I do travel to the US a fair bit.

I had a chat to a solicitor this evening, who suggested they could help me for £900+ VAT.

My question is … is there any way I can have a go at this myself to avoid their fee? Or should I leave it to the professionals?

Do you think I will be able to settle?

Thanks so much for your help! I have read so many threads on here and you seem to know your stuff!

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi there,

I’ve received a letter notifying me I’ve been charged with contravening Byelaws 18 (1) and 24, asking me to return a plea to the court. Date of the letter being posted was 27 March 2023.

In November I got to my local station (Guildford) to travel to Waterloo, and the ticket machines on my side were broken. I asked the staff member to wave me through and said I’d get a ticket on the train. I’d often seen the guard selling tickets next to the train though I’d never bought one from them (I travel about twice a week, and I always buy a ticket from the machine).

At Waterloo I looked for the guard and couldn’t see them, then saw people with what looked like ticket machines at the gate, approached and said I needed a ticket and was promptly issued with a penalty notice. I was a bit flustered and cross, tried to plead my case - they told me that on the other side of the station there were working ticket machines, and asked me the name of the person who had waved me through the barriers. So I stopped trying to discuss it and accepted it, giving my details etc.

This is the stupid bit.

I’d been waiting for the letter, but didn’t see it come through. I was worried and even checked my bank acc as I couldn’t remember if I had paid it immediately or not. I saw a transaction which made me think I might have, so forgot about it.

The way we deal with post in our house is badly disorganised. Obviously I have just missed the previous letters I have been sent - in fact I found one under a pile in the study after a frantic search tonight.

Obv I don’t want a criminal record, work wise it wouldn’t affect me, but I do travel to the US a fair bit.

I had a chat to a solicitor this evening, who suggested they could help me for £900+ VAT.

My question is … is there any way I can have a go at this myself to avoid their fee? Or should I leave it to the professionals?

Do you think I will be able to settle?

Thanks so much for your help! I have read so many threads on here and you seem to know your stuff!

OK - are you in the situation where they have now summoned you to court? If so what is the date of the court case that you have been given? Most likely this is because you have failed to respond to earlier letter(s) from them so they have put your case on the 'escalator to court'.

If it has not yet gone to court you need to start engaging with SWR in writing urgently asking them if they would be prepared to agree to an out of court settlement - the advice often given by @Hadders on the sort of thing to say will help - you can see it in many other threads. You need to seek to persuade them to settle without taking you to court and if they do they will withdraw the case at court.

You probably don't need a solicitor to do this if you are able to write a clear, coherent and concise apology type letter.

However, if it goes to court I would say you will be guilty as the offence is to travel without a valid ticket - so the moment you stepped on the train you basically committed that offence (tho if you had actively gone to find the guard after boarding, if the trains from Guildford have guards, and they sold you a ticket, that would have resolved it, but that did not happen so you are now where you are. But it may not be too late to get this sorted out.

 

[small string]

OK - are you in the situation where they have now summoned you to court? If so what is the date of the court case that you have been given? Most likely this is because you have failed to respond to earlier letter(s) from them so they have put your case on the 'escalator to court'.

If it has not yet gone to court you need to start engaging with SWR in writing urgently asking them if they would be prepared to agree to an out of court settlement - the advice often given by @Hadders on the sort of thing to say will help - you can see it in many other threads. You need to seek to persuade them to settle without taking you to court and if they do they will withdraw the case at court.

You probably don't need a solicitor to do this if you are able to write a clear, coherent and concise apology type letter.

However, if it goes to court I would say you will be guilty as the offence is to travel without a valid ticket - so the moment you stepped on the train you basically committed that offence (tho if you had actively gone to find the guard after boarding, if the trains from Guildford have guards, and they sold you a ticket, that would have resolved it, but that did not happen so you are now where you are. But it may not be too late to get this sorted out.

Thanks so much for your speedy reply.

They haven’t given me a court date, just a Single Justice Procedure Notice - I can plead guilty by post, guilty in court, or plead not guilty and be sent the date of the trial.

From what I can see in other threads I need to, state the facts and any mitigation (though I know that it’s the type of thing where I am just wrong by not having a ticket for whatever reason), apologise sincerely and succinctly, suggest action I have taken to stop it happening again - I have downloaded the Trainline app so I can buy tickets if the machines are bust - and ask to settle and say I will pay their costs?

Does that sound right? I will search @Hadders comments also.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

This could have been resolved with an out of court settlement had you have responded to the initial letter SWR sent you. By failing to engage with the process you've ended up giving SWR little alternative but to escalate the matter to the Magistrates Court.

A Single Justice Procedure Notice is a way court cases can be dealt with without having to attend court. When do you need to return this by? If you plead guilty by post then that's it you're guilty and you won't be able to change that.

What you need to try and do is to get SWR to withdraw the court proceedings in return for paying them some money by way of an out of court settlement. This won't be easy but is not impossible. I would try to contact them by phone in the first instance but be prepared for a long wait. Should this not be possible then you could consider engaging a solicitor.

We have heard of cases where people have managed to arrange an out of court settlement with the prosecutor 'at the doors of the court'. Clearly this is only possible if there is a court case to attend, which there won't be if you plead guilty on the Single Justice Procedure Notice.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks so much for your speedy reply.

They haven’t given me a court date, just a Single Justice Procedure Notice - I can plead guilty by post, guilty in court, or plead not guilty and be sent the date of the trial.

From what I can see in other threads I need to, state the facts and any mitigation (though I know that it’s the type of thing where I am just wrong by not having a ticket for whatever reason), apologise sincerely and succinctly, suggest action I have taken to stop it happening again - I have downloaded the Trainline app so I can buy tickets if the machines are bust - and ask to settle and say I will pay their costs?

Does that sound right? I will search @Hadders comments also.

Yep - that's the kind of thing to write , plus some apology / excuse why you did not reply to their efforts to write to you before....

What is the deadline for the SJPN to be back with them? It would seem to me that that is the window you have to get hold of SWR revenue protection team and plead your case. Unless others know if it is all too late now for that

EDIT - just seen Hadders' helpful post #4

Obv you can try and ring them but I'd have the written stuff preppe'd to use as a follow up even if you get to speak to someone in a decision making capacity...

 

[small string]

Welcome to the forum!

This could have been resolved with an out of court settlement had you have responded to the initial letter SWR sent you. By failing to engage with the process you've ended up giving SWR little alternative but to escalate the matter to the Magistrates Court.

A Single Justice Procedure Notice is a way court cases can be dealt with without having to attend court. When do you need to return this by? If you plead guilty by post then that's it you're guilty and you won't be able to change that.

What you need to try and do is to get SWR to withdraw the court proceedings in return for paying them some money by way of an out of court settlement. This won't be easy but is not impossible. I would try to contact them by phone in the first instance but be prepared for a long wait. Should this not be possible then you could consider engaging a solicitor.

We have heard of cases where people have managed to arrange an out of court settlement with the prosecutor 'at the doors of the court'. Clearly this is only possible if there is a court case to attend, which there won't be if you plead guilty on the Single Justice Procedure Notice.

Thanks so much for replying. I have 21 days from the posting date of the letter I have received to respond.

I haven’t replied yet, so may still be able to sort this out out of court.

I’ll call them tomorrow - there is a number on the letter for their prosecutions department, am presuming that’s the right one to try.

I really appreciate the advice both you and @WesternLancer have given.

 

[small string]

Yep - that's the kind of thing to write , plus some apology / excuse why you did not reply to their efforts to write to you before....

What is the deadline for the SJPN to be back with them? It would seem to me that that is the window you have to get hold of SWR revenue protection team and plead your case. Unless others know if it is all too late now for that

EDIT - just seen Hadders' helpful post #4

Obv you can try and ring them but I'd have the written stuff preppe'd to use as a follow up even if you get to speak to someone in a decision making capacity...

Have noted your edit - good thinking to have some kind of key points written down. Thank you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Apr 2023 ==

Update: I called the prosecutions number, and was able to settle the matter immediately.

The cost was £180 + my £15.20 fare which frankly felt more than fair.

The agent on the phone was very personable, and really much more interested in settling than hearing anything about an apology, or steps I had taken to make sure this doesn’t happen again.

Thanks so much for the help @Hadders and @WesternLancer ! I’ll certainly sleep better tonight!

 

[WesternLancer]

Have noted your edit - good thinking to have some kind of key points written down. Thank you.

Other thing that may be worth doing is having a read of their Revenue Protection policy - probably on their website / or as a download - just for background. The key point you need to make is that this was a mistake, you misunderstood the rules about buying before you boarded as you have seen guards sell tickets before - and that this is in no way a case of deliberate fare evasion (the reason you went to speak to barrier staff at Waterloo for example helps show that you wanted to pay the fare due)

 

[fandroid]

I'm guessing that as the broken machines were at Guildford, the problem for the OP was that there was very likely to be an open ticket office available, so no valid reason to board the train without a ticket.

They said "on my side". I'm also assuming that's the University side which probably has no ticket office. But as I understand it, the public can use the overbridge within the station barriers to cross the railway, so there should have been access to the main ticket office via that route.