Things you don't see in trains any longer

[Trestrol]

I last remember seeing those in Mk3 sleepers.

Used one today in the Mk3 Sleeper at the NYMR today!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

There was a variation in the enthusiasm of the staff coming down the train. The very enthusiastic ones seem to provide a proportion of Maxpax cups that had loose instant coffee inside and giving change seemed to involve a float from more than one pocket. Jars of Nescafe on a shelf at the back of the buffet.
Remember the little tags that you ripped off the tops of Maxpax cups and deposited in a collection box so that a charity (fronted by you-know-who) received 1/2p each? Was that because Travellers Fayre were keen to help charities - or thought that 1/2p was a small price to make sure the cups could not be re-used? I know the answer, perhaps you can guess

Re-use or recycling (perhaps not in BR's fiscal interest) was endemic. As trainees we were advised if purchasing one to hole it with a plastic pen or similar.

Awful , awful product. Glad they were got rid of , and all that plastic no doubt ended up n landfill.


(Another plastic related thing was the serving of buffet products in white plastic trays - perfect for growing seedlings , but very wasteful compared to today's more "green thinking" society)

 

[Merle Haggard]

Re-use or recycling (perhaps not in BR's fiscal interest) was endemic. As trainees we were advised if purchasing one to hole it with a plastic pen or similar.

Now this is off topic but to show it wasn't just B.R. catering staff...

In the days (early 1970s) when food and drink was not widely available on Sundays I was with a group travelling together by car. We were thirsty and after many miles we came across a hotel that served drinks to non-residents. I ordered an orange juice (the only non-alcoholic option) but what I got was squash in a small, dirty, white plastic cup and a large charge. I was so incensed at the price I made sure the cup could not be re-used again by stabbing it with a pin (all railway clerks carried one). As soon as I drank it, it was collected.

Just as we were leaving, I heard a commotion, a young women screaming. This was because she was wearing an immaculate white dress, now with an orange stain down the front...

 

[Intercity110]

What is a telltale?

A pascom?

 

[Merle Haggard]

A pascom?

no, it's the disc at the end of the rod that connects the communication cord chain to a valve on the vacuum pipe. It's just under cove level on the end. Turning its has the same effect as pulling a communication cord.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Jars of Nescafe on a shelf at the back of the buffet.

Maybe my memory is playing tricks, but I do seem to recall on busier days when booked to travel 'pass' standing put of sight behind the buffet counter spooning said Nescafe into the plastic cups normally used for soft drinks and beers whilst the Buffet man dispensed a mixture of regulation hot drinks and those from his own Nescafe jar - for the latter the plastic cups were doubled to withstand the heat. Presumably the ratio of plastic cups used against numbers of canned drinks sold was never examined.

 

[Intercity110]

no, it's the disc at the end of the rod that connects the communication cord chain to a valve on the vacuum pipe. It's just under cove level on the end. Turning its has the same effect as pulling a communication cord.

Aah, thanks

 

[Western 52]

no, it's the disc at the end of the rod that connects the communication cord chain to a valve on the vacuum pipe. It's just under cove level on the end. Turning its has the same effect as pulling a communication cord.

It allowed the guard to see which coach the cord had been pulled in. It was also known as the butterfly because of it's shape.

 

[Deepgreen]

It wasn't a good thing at all.....hence my comment that, thank goodness, it's a thing you don't see on trains any more (as per the OP's title).

Sorry - brain fuse blown!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Apr 2023 ==

It allowed the guard to see which coach the cord had been pulled in. It was also known as the butterfly because of it's shape.

Various shapes were used - this 4EPB has its as the small red knob at just below cantrail level at the end of the coach. Some reforming must have happened as there were usually two adjacent tell-tales.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Maybe my memory is playing tricks, but I do seem to recall on busier days when booked to travel 'pass' standing put of sight behind the buffet counter spooning said Nescafe into the plastic cups normally used for soft drinks and beers whilst the Buffet man dispensed a mixture of regulation hot drinks and those from his own Nescafe jar - for the latter the plastic cups were doubled to withstand the heat. Presumably the ratio of plastic cups used against numbers of canned drinks sold was never examined.

I was just a bit puzzled by the Nescafe jar in buffets bearing in mind that the whole idea of Maxpax was that they had the coffee already stuck in the bottom.

Midland Main Line uniquely introduced free tea and coffee in both first and standard, supplied initially in standard Travellers Fayre cups. At a certain station North of Derby served by both MML and another ex Inter City TOC I saw boxes of cups being hastily transferred from the TRFK of the MML train to the the buffet of the other operator's train. I could think of a reason but maybe I'm just too cynical.

 

[Roilshead]

Draught beer in the Buffer Car; an extensive range of beverages for sale (I was going to write at-seat tea/coffee from a pot, but that's been covered); Smoke-filled smoking carriages - or smokers leaning out of corridor windows; light bulbs sitting on seats having been removed from holders to dim the lighting (on SR stock); Guards/etc wearing training shoes; elderly people with rickets . . .

 

[gaillark]

The toilets in Mk1 coaches had a small clear 'peep hole' in the frosted glass so you could see out of the window.

Also adjoining to the buffet area on the Southern Region the seats were reserved for customers using the buffet service.

And also on HST's the restaurant/buffet coach had first class seats but was declassified for passengers using the buffet (On the outside the yellow band denoting first class was notably absent). This ceased in the mid 1980's when that portion was no longer available to all passengers using the buffet and became 'proper' first class with the yellow band painted above the windows on the exterior.

Also gone is the red band above the windows denoting buffet/restaurant car.

 

[6Gman]

Standard feature on the "Electric Scot" service from Edinburgh to Liverpool, which I was a regular on from 1974 onwards. After a couple of years was replaced by the MaxPax system, an "industrial catering" product from Maxwell House, an all-in-one paper cup unit, where the (cheapest) instant coffee powder was ludicrously seen as equivalent to the former freshly-brewed offering. I believe the principal driver of the change was stock control, as 'not all' of the amounts charged for the service was making its way back to the office - does anyone remember ever getting a receipt?

There was widespread fiddling on both drinks and food - my family was a beneficiary!

Footplate crew were supplied with cloths which were far superior to those issued to catering crews. Cloths went in one direction; free coffee and food passed in the other direction.

Maxpax and prepack sandwiches put an end to it.




Mostly.

 

[D6130]

Sorry - brain fuse blown!

Don't worry....happens to me all the time!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I was just a bit puzzled by the Nescafe jar in buffets bearing in mind that the whole idea of Maxpax was that they had the coffee already stuck in the bottom.

Presumably if whomever is working the buffet is supplied with a set number of Maxpax, say 100, then at the end of shift, they will be expected to account for the relevant of units sold, as determined/adjusted by the appropriate number of unsold Maxpax (if any). Say 80 sold, 20 unsold.

If, instead, the coffee sold at the buffet comes out of a Nescafe jar, then any number of cups can be sold, all the proceeds pocketed, and the only outlay is effectively the cost of the Nescafe jar. Presume the coffee sold in this manner would be served in generic plastic cups.

Might therefore be necessary to still sell some of the Maxpax cups to avoid registering suspiciously low sales.

 

[Rescars]

Oh the challenges of a cash economy!

On an entirely different tack, does anyone remember water pouring into the first carriage of a steam hauled express when the fireman was a bit slow in winding in the scoop over a watertrough?

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Maybe my memory is playing tricks, but I do seem to recall on busier days when booked to travel 'pass' standing put of sight behind the buffet counter spooning said Nescafe into the plastic cups normally used for soft drinks and beers whilst the Buffet man dispensed a mixture of regulation hot drinks and those from his own Nescafe jar - for the latter the plastic cups were doubled to withstand the heat. Presumably the ratio of plastic cups used against numbers of canned drinks sold was never examined.

I was just a bit puzzled by the Nescafe jar in buffets bearing in mind that the whole idea of Maxpax was that they had the coffee already stuck in the bottom.

Presumably if whomever is working the buffet is supplied with a set number of Maxpax, say 100, then at the end of shift, they will be expected to account for the relevant of units sold, as determined/adjusted by the appropriate number of unsold Maxpax (if any). Say 80 sold, 20 unsold.

If, instead, the coffee sold at the buffet comes out of a Nescafe jar, then any number of cups can be sold, all the proceeds pocketed, and the only outlay is effectively the cost of the Nescafe jar. Presume the coffee sold in this manner would be served in generic plastic cups.

Might therefore be necessary to still sell some of the Maxpax cups to avoid registering suspiciously low sales.

On reflection I think the methodology was, rather than as I described in the post above, that the buffet steward would openly empty the maxpax into the doubled plastic cups whilst explaining to the customer the double thickness helped with the heat, meanwhile he would pass the maxpax to the back to be filled with Nescafe, and perhaps over the shift he might sell 50% maxpax (in plastic cups) and 50% own coffee (in maxpax cups) - and he probably did the same with maxpax tea and own tea bags. I think that makes more sense but it was over 40 years ago.

 

[Springs Branch]

I did hear a variation of this fiddle which capitalised on those passengers who enjoyed a G&T or two, or a wee dram during their train journeys.

Spirits were always sold in individual miniature bottles in the buffet car (probably still are), rather than dispensed via optics from full-size bottles, as in a pub. Some BR staff - who were commendably early adopters of the recycling ethos - might collect the empty bottles and caps and 'repurpose' them from their own full-size bottle. Obviously more labour-intensive and time-consuming than the Maxpax / teabag tickle, and probably needed to be done off the train, but likely more lucrative on a 'per unit' basis.

Subsequent purchasers might observe the buffet steward had helpfully 'cracking the seal' on their Gordons minature as he served them - all in the spirit of excellent customer service, of course.

I wonder if Travellers Fare accountants ever noticed some buffet cars sold a good few more cans of Schweppes Tonic and Canada Dry mixers than they did minatures of booze?

 

[Taunton]

I would add getting a first class seat for the whole journey if you were going to have a meal in the restaurant car. Particularly prevalent on Euston to Liverpool/Manchester, 1960s to 1990s, which always ran to just one sitting. It seemed a complete waste of money to have a first class ticket on these services. Doubtless not possible on London to Scotland services, which had multiple sittings. There were I think small notices that after finishing the meal you should move back to the seats, but it was never enforced, and after first class reservations in the restaurant car were introduced, would not be possible without a ticket check, which the catering crew did not do.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Presumably if whomever is working the buffet is supplied with a set number of Maxpax, say 100, then at the end of shift, they will be expected to account for the relevant of units sold, as determined/adjusted by the appropriate number of unsold Maxpax (if any). Say 80 sold, 20 unsold.

If, instead, the coffee sold at the buffet comes out of a Nescafe jar, then any number of cups can be sold, all the proceeds pocketed, and the only outlay is effectively the cost of the Nescafe jar. Presume the coffee sold in this manner would be served in generic plastic cups.

Might therefore be necessary to still sell some of the Maxpax cups to avoid registering suspiciously low sales.

I used 'puzzled' in the sense that I didn't understand why the scam was so blatant!
There was a court case when a buffet car steward was charged (unsure of the offence) for selling sandwiches that he had made and brought in and the case was dismissed - can't remember the exact details of the defence but the magistrates seemed to see such a side-line was acceptable - so possibly they felt bomb-proof.

 

[robert thomas]

I used 'puzzled' in the sense that I didn't understand why the scam was so blatant!
There was a court case when a buffet car steward was charged (unsure of the offence) for selling sandwiches that he had made and brought in and the case was dismissed - can't remember the exact details of the defence but the magistrates seemed to see such a side-line was acceptable - so possibly they felt bomb-proof.

I think the charge was theft and the defence was that nothing was stolen from the railway or the customer

 

[Intercity110]

Used one today in the Mk3 Sleeper at the NYMR today!

They have MK3s at the NYMR? Are they hotels?

 

[Rescars]

I think the charge was theft and the defence was that nothing was stolen from the railway or the customer

Including complimentary tea and coffee in the ticket price saves a lot of accounting worries!

 

[Devonian]

I would add getting a first class seat for the whole journey if you were going to have a meal in the restaurant car.

Surely this is still the case on GWR? I've never been kicked out of the Pullman ... yet!

A tiny thing that has only recently gone in the Mk3 SLE(P) refurbishment/replacement, but which I rather miss: the hook for a watch by each bed in sleeping compartments.

 

[Graham H]

The toilets in Mk1 coaches had a small clear 'peep hole' in the frosted glass so you could see out of the window.

Also adjoining to the buffet area on the Southern Region the seats were reserved for customers using the buffet service.

And also on HST's the restaurant/buffet coach had first class seats but was declassified for passengers using the buffet (On the outside the yellow band denoting first class was notably absent). This ceased in the mid 1980's when that portion was no longer available to all passengers using the buffet and became 'proper' first class with the yellow band painted above the windows on the exterior.

Also gone is the red band above the windows denoting buffet/restaurant car.

Yes I regularly used that HST buffet coach on the way from Uni in Bristol to Didcot. Effectively a first class upgrade for the price of a slowly drunk cup of tea

 

[Merle Haggard]

I think the charge was theft and the defence was that nothing was stolen from the railway or the customer

Thanks for the explanation, I couldn't remember the details

 

[L401CJF]

Not quite things you can see, but that you could smell - that distinct smell of a british railway line, creosote treated wooden sleepers but not quite, it was a sort of unique BR smell.

Not to mention the smell of the disinfectant the trains and stations all smelt of back in the 90s!

 

[6Gman]

Not quite things you can see, but that you could smell - that distinct smell of a british railway line, creosote treated wooden sleepers but not quite, it was a sort of unique BR smell.

Not to mention the smell of the disinfectant the trains and stations all smelt of back in the 90s!

Speaking of smells . . .

The distinctive smell of the small Imperial Leather bars in sleeping cars (you can still enjoy the smell, but not on the sleepers).

That very distinctive smell that drifts from steam locos under certain circumstances which appears to be the effect of steam on oil - I once caught exactly the same smell in the filter room of Toton depot where they were steamcleaning oil filters. Doubtless horribly carcinogenic but just shouts "railway"!

And a noise . . .

The rubbing, creaking and mild clattering of the corridor connections of Mk I stock in use. My wife's old Austin 1300 could make a very similar noise if I drove it badly!

 

[StKeverne1497]

...

Subsequent purchasers might observe the buffet steward had helpfully 'cracking the seal' on their Gordons minature as he served them - all in the spirit of excellent customer service, of course.

Reminds me of an episode of John Finnemore's wonderful Cabin Pressure, where the expensive whisky is stolen and replaced with cheap, "re-sealing" the bottle caps with a dab of nail polish so that they still go "crack"...

 

[MadMac]

I used 'puzzled' in the sense that I didn't understand why the scam was so blatant!
There was a court case when a buffet car steward was charged (unsure of the offence) for selling sandwiches that he had made and brought in and the case was dismissed - can't remember the exact details of the defence but the magistrates seemed to see such a side-line was acceptable - so possibly they felt bomb-proof.

Not wishing to drift too far from the subject, but relevant to this, there was a case in, I think, the 70s where a Regional General Manager had the house he was living in extensively and lavishly refurbished by BR labour and using BR-bought materials. The matter was brought to the attention of the Civil police (as opposed to the BTP) and ended up in court, where it emerged that the house was actually owned by BR and as such, the improvements had been to the betterment of BR property and no offense had been committed. He was shunted off to some meaningless position in the wake of this.