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Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

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childwallblues

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How utterly unbelievably arrogant. You just don't say things like that.

I certainly haven't been "fulsome in praise" about the things! :)

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(I've just given them an utter slating on their survey on that page :) )
I do know that one of the Merseytravel bosses is a member of this group and values the opinions of travellers from the Merseytravel area. Your opinions are valid in your eyes but as "Marston Vale Mafia" those will probably be considered as not so important.
 
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Bletchleyite

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"Marston Vale mafia"
I do know that one of the Merseytravel bosses is a member of this group and values the opinions of travellers from the Merseytravel area. Your opinions are valid in your eyes but as "Marston Vale Mafia" those will probably be considered as not so important.

It's worth noting that I've probably made more journeys on Merseyrail than most people on here have had hot dinners, though, given that I grew up there.

I don't think I'm going to agree with that person. I did have a PM exchange with him on Twitter before I rode one, but after finding them to be far worse than I expected I think further discussion with him is not worthwhile; I'm clearly more in line with the views of TfL's train designers (e.g. the excellent S8 and 345) than with him. I near enough agree with none of the design choices in the 777 bar the level boarding.
 

Vinnym

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I do know that one of the Merseytravel bosses is a member of this group and values the opinions of travellers from the Merseytravel area. Your opinions are valid in your eyes but as "Marston Vale Mafia" those will probably be considered as not so important.
Well said, couldn’t agree with you more.
 

507 001

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I do know that one of the Merseytravel bosses is a member of this group and values the opinions of travellers from the Merseytravel area. Your opinions are valid in your eyes but as "Marston Vale Mafia" those will probably be considered as not so important.

The thing is, he’s absolutely correct. The 777s aren’t as good as they should have been, but as usual people are just being distracted by the shinyness.
 
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L401CJF

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The thing is, he’s absolutely correct. The 777s aren’t as good as they should have been.
Considering all the hype about how brilliant they'd be I also agree. I'm not talking from an enthusiast point of view either - my enthusiasm is limited to any BR relics that remain as I find new stuff just uninteresting. I personally couldn't care less about new stock from an enthusiast perspective but rather how I find them as a passenger.

The 777s are an improvement in some ways - great for those with reduced mobility, buggies, bags etc due to the lower step - however I along with others got the impression it would be level boarding for wheelchair users, which it apparently isn't and never was supposed to be. I'm not the only person who thought it would be either!

The seats are uncomfortable. I know this is a personal opinion, but im generally not too fussy about seats especially on commuter stock. The current fleet hardly has comfy seats but these seem worse! People say it's OK because the majority of people only use the trains for short journeys - huge amounts use them for the full Chester to Liverpool journey too aswell as Southport.

The "wedges" along the sides to prevent falling down the gap is a good design.

The grill/vents under the windows along the interior walls is a daft design and will be full of rubbish in no time.

Speaking to train crew that I know, they don't speak highly of them either. "Cheap and tacky" was how a friend of mine described them.

The acceleration is one of their biggest plus sides, and is very impressive. The open interior is good as are the CCTV screens. I do like the bright yellow interior doors, 70s throw back!

Whilst they may look nice and shiny they're just not quite what they were hyped up to be.
 

Bertie the bus

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I do know that one of the Merseytravel bosses is a member of this group and values the opinions of travellers from the Merseytravel area. Your opinions are valid in your eyes but as "Marston Vale Mafia" those will probably be considered as not so important.
Have Merseyrail extended to Royston Vasey? Local trains for local people...
 

73001

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I fully expect 4 cars even during the national and rush hour. Cue pandemonium.
I thought a single 777 could carry nearly as many as a double 507...? Mostly standing obviously but it's probably not as bad as it might sound. I'm not saying it's sensible by the way ... fewer doors etc.
 

razor89

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The 777s are an improvement in some ways - great for those with reduced mobility, buggies, bags etc due to the lower step - however I along with others got the impression it would be level boarding for wheelchair users, which it apparently isn't and never was supposed to be. I'm not the only person who thought it would be either!
Eh? Yes there is a bit of a lip due to the sliding step mechanism but for all intents and purposes they are level boarding and were always planned to be. There aren't any ramps available for staff to deploy for the 777s for this very reason.
 

L401CJF

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Eh? Yes there is a bit of a lip due to the sliding step mechanism but for all intents and purposes they are level boarding and were always planned to be. There aren't any ramps available for staff to deploy for the 777s for this very reason.
I said something a while ago about how the step isn't quite level at some stations and there is infact a gap/step which some wheelchair users would struggle to board without assistance.

The response I got was that its not full level boarding so gaps are to be expected. If I can find the exact quotes after some digging I'll post them.
 

Wezz

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I said something a while ago about how the step isn't quite level at some stations and there is infact a gap/step which some wheelchair users would struggle to board without assistance.

The response I got was that its not full level boarding so gaps are to be expected. If I can find the exact quotes after some digging I'll post them.
It's impossible at some stations due to platform curves
 

Wezz

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You sure about that? Platform height should be adjusted for cant, just a question of whether the step can extend out enough.
Hamilton Square for example, the platform has a rather tight curve meaning the step can't fully extend to meet the platform edge properly.
 

childwallblues

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It's worth noting that I've probably made more journeys on Merseyrail than most people on here have had hot dinners, though, given that I grew up there.
You may be right. My current score is 227 on 507s and 235 on 508s. That is only between 2000 and 2023. My totals from new up to 2000 have yet to be added. Thus will include riding the 508s on the Southern Region when I lived in Wimbledon.
 

Lloyds siding

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The Liverpool Echo is claiming they'll be used for the Grand National. I guess they mean during the festival rather than on the Saturday. I take it they're no closer on multiple working?

I'm sure that Merseyrail would love to run 8 car 777s for the National if the can. Whether 4 or 8 car, it will be a very good test for them: being heavily laden up the slope from Moorfields and also see how the floors warp under the load and affect door opening...a very good test indeed.

[And if we are into bragging rights I must have made thousands of journeys on the 502s, 503s, 507s, 508s, and the earlier LMS units and the DMUs that served Lime St..and that's just on the Northern line of Merseyrail. In more recent years I've been commuting to Chester and nearby stations on the Wirral lines.
I've now made one journey on a 777 too.]
 

MattRat

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I thought a single 777 could carry nearly as many as a double 507...? Mostly standing obviously but it's probably not as bad as it might sound. I'm not saying it's sensible by the way ... fewer doors etc.
That's my point. On paper it's fine, so they'll do it. But in practice, you tell people they have to stand instead of sit, especially when drunk, you are going to have near enough a riot on your hands.
 

185143

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You may be right. My current score is 227 on 507s and 235 on 508s. That is only between 2000 and 2023. My totals from new up to 2000 have yet to be added. Thus will include riding the 508s on the Southern Region when I lived in Wimbledon.
Just checked my count since 2016 and combined it is 2118. Knew it would be high, but wasn't quite ready for that!

So back on topic, I'd say the 777s are improvements in some areas, but downgrades in others. Level boarding being the big one, though I noticed someone above saying it wasn't intended for wheelchair users, and never was. (I'm pretty sure Merseytravel's DOO propaganda at least heavily implied, if it didn't expressly state that onboard staff weren't necessary as the new trains are fully accessible with level boarding?)

The seats are a downgrade on the existing stock, the impression I get is of the Manchester Metrolink seats, but with a headrest. That said, having airline seats is better than an all bays layout. Though the lack of spacing in-between the seats is a loss. Plug and USB sockets are nice to have.

They are much quieter through the tunnels, should be interesting to compare a 777 to a 50x round the Wirral Loop that's for sure. The PIS on the 777s seems basic for a new train, plus the ceiling mounted PIS on the old stock seems more visible to everyone onboard.
 

Westinghouse

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On a 4 car set, what is the motor/trailer layout ? Is it M-T-T-M ? Also on what bogies are the collector shoes mounted ? Finally.... are two 4 car sets bus lined together? Thanks in anticipation.
 

315801

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I'm not sure about the motor / trailer formation of the 777s but I do know that out of the 5 bogies on a 777, only the 3rd bogie ( in the middle of each unit ) does not have 3rd rail shoes fitted, the other 4 do.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Don’t know why you seem to want to comment negatively regularly on the new trains, it’s not as if you will be using them much.
What on earth makes you think you know whether or not he will use them?

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It's worth noting that I've probably made more journeys on Merseyrail than most people on here have had hot dinners, though, given that I grew up there.
That’s just it, nothing grates me more than wild sweeping assumptions.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

That's my point. On paper it's fine, so they'll do it. But in practice, you tell people they have to stand instead of sit, especially when drunk, you are going to have near enough a riot on your hands.
You’re going to have a rowdy crowd regardless. Whether or not they can sit on the train is not going to make a difference on trains so busy that seats will be very very unlikely for the vast majority.
 

XAM2175

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On a 4 car set, what is the motor/trailer layout ? Is it M-T-T-M ? Also on what bogies are the collector shoes mounted ? Finally.... are two 4 car sets bus lined together? Thanks in anticipation.
T-M-M-T, UIC classification 2′Bo′Bo′Bo′2′. There's no shared traction supply between units (nor is there for any other class).
 

Bertie the bus

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I'm sure that Merseyrail would love to run 8 car 777s for the National if the can. Whether 4 or 8 car, it will be a very good test for them: being heavily laden up the slope from Moorfields and also see how the floors warp under the load and affect door opening...a very good test indeed.
The Grand National isn’t an event where you want to test things. If Steve Rotherham wants to show off the new units to the world then they need to be confident they work because no matter how many shiny things and bells and whistles a train has it is only good if it gets people to their destination.

If people are already complaining about how passenger behaviour is causing issues with the doors just wait until several thousand excited drunks turn up.
 

Skie

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On a 4 car set, what is the motor/trailer layout ? Is it M-T-T-M ? Also on what bogies are the collector shoes mounted ? Finally.... are two 4 car sets bus lined together? Thanks in anticipation.

Jacobs bogies are powered, normal bogies under the driving cabs are unpowered.
 

Wezz

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The Grand National isn’t an event where you want to test things. If Steve Rotherham wants to show off the new units to the world then they need to be confident they work because no matter how many shiny things and bells and whistles a train has it is only good if it gets people to their destination.

If people are already complaining about how passenger behaviour is causing issues with the doors just wait until several thousand excited drunks turn up.
We're only running x1 4 car set for the national, it's running an Aintree express so will only call
Liverpool Central - Moorfields - Aintree.

The return journey after the races will be Aintree - Moorfields - Liverpool Central.

So there won't really be too many issues regarding crouds, the only issues that may occur will be at Aintree.
 
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