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Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates
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Peter Sarf
Established Member
Warm storage enabled by the use of er gas axesNo doubt Mr Needle is rubbing his hands at another contract for the Worksop facility
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Snow1964
Established Member
DfT has just published the East Midlands 2022 contract
Page 76 has the 810s
33 x 5car
capacity 254 (+155 standing) and 47 First class + 2 wheelchairs
leases phased start between Dec 2023 and March 2025
leases end 22/08/27
Page 76 has the 810s
33 x 5car
capacity 254 (+155 standing) and 47 First class + 2 wheelchairs
leases phased start between Dec 2023 and March 2025
leases end 22/08/27
STINT47
Member
If the figures quoted ate correct then 155 people standing on a five car train is going to be awful. If the train had that many standing I'm not sure I would be comfortable traveling on it on health grounds
Don’t ever get a Thameslink train in the peak then. Routinely 1000 people standing on a train twice the length…
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
British trains are designed for a crush load to be safe as there are no boarding controls. That doesn't mean (outside of disruptions) that many standees would be expected.
bluelagoon8951
Member
3 things to note:
156s and 170s are quoted as having standing capacity at around 50-60% of seated capacity, so not far off the same ratio for 810s.
222s are quoted at 129 per 5 car - not hugely behind 155, and a similar ratio to the sprinters and turbostars.
finally - it seems both wheelchair spaces on the 810s will be in 1st class? very odd choice imo.
Spartacus
Established Member
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Or even 222 on a 155, though given the number of people I've seen get off single 153s in the past I wouldn't say it's impossible
That works out at 31 standees per vehicle which includes the vestibules. Even taking first class out of the standing equation that’s an average of 38.75 per vehicle including the vestibules so hardly crush loaded.
it is the same as other 5 car class 80x's.
Good idea unless they have to pay for first class to get a seat. Not many people ride first class anyway, so taking away seats for wheelchair space, leaving standard for the rest of the passengers, is a no brainer.
bluelagoon8951
Member
true - works well unless, as you said, they have to pay extra.
speaking of first class, anyone know how much of the train will be 1st? 1 coach, or 1.5?
Halish Railway
Established Member
With 47 seats, its in line with other 5-carriage 80Xs that have had a driving trailer with First Class and a kitchen and a composite carriage - What comes closest is the Hull Trains Class 802s which have 43 seats.
What is worth noting is that the 810s will have 2 windows of one of the driving trailers infilled (including the smaller one at the end of the carriage), with 5 windows in the passenger saloon (again, one of which being the smaller one at the end of the carriage).
zwk500
Veteran Member
Where required:
On TPE, their policy states wheelchair users (and companions) don't have to pay anything more, and recieve a Hot drink and snack if catering is operating. They can also upgrade to the full first class experience if they want.
On LNER, their policy states they upgrade wheelchair users to 1st class at no extra cost.
A reminder that this thread is for the discussion of Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates.
If anyone wants to discuss anything else such as overcrowding then they are welcome to start a new thread (or find an appropriate existing one) elsewhere.
thanks all
Edit: some posts have been moved to the following thread:
If anyone wants to discuss anything else such as overcrowding then they are welcome to start a new thread (or find an appropriate existing one) elsewhere.
thanks all
Edit: some posts have been moved to the following thread:
I was told I couldn't stand on an LNER Azuma; it this a common practice when travelling on Class 800 series trains?
Moderator note: split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-810-for-east-midlands-railway-construction-introduction-updates.195052/ When I was on an LNER Azuma recently, they said passengers couldn't stand in the carriage, only the vestibules. Is mthis common practice on class 80X?
www.railforums.co.uk
Peter Sarf
Established Member
So the trains will be used for a short while before the lease ends ?. I make that a guaranteed income covering 29 to 45 months for all the units.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Presumably they can only be leased to EMR for the period of their contract. They would of course* be leased to their successor too.
* OK, 350/2s.
PG
Established Member
Always assuming the successor wants them! Yes I know it's unlikely but crazy world we live in etc...
Section 54 - as explained here - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-710-lo.145774/page-64#post-4265523
https://www.railmagazine.com/news/rail-features/risky-business-train-fleets-in-a-state-of-flux?p=3
Last edited:
Snow1964
Established Member
No section 54 guarantees have been issued since 2014
The only ones remaining are :
class 800, 801, 802 (27.5 years from first unit accepted)
class 444, 450 (until April 2025)
class 350/1 (until April 2025)
class 700 (until March 2036)
class 395 (until 2025)
Written questions and answers - Written questions, answers and statements - UK Parliament
Information from UK Parliament on written questions & answers, written statements and daily reports.
Don't know if Scottish of Welsh Governments have issued any s54
As it would probably take at least 2 years to get any new train order in service, effectively it is only the East Coast and GWR IETs, and cross London Thameslink fleet that have ongoing guarantees
Scotrail have a Section 54 on their HSTs until 2030. https://angeltrains.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Investor-Report-01_07_14-to-30_06_15-Final.pdfNo section 54 guarantees have been issued since 2014
The only ones remaining are :
class 800, 801, 802 (27.5 years from first unit accepted)
class 444, 450 (until April 2025)
class 350/1 (until April 2025)
class 700 (until March 2036)
class 395 (until 2025)
Written questions and answers - Written questions, answers and statements - UK Parliament
Information from UK Parliament on written questions & answers, written statements and daily reports.questions-statements.parliament.uk
Don't know if Scottish of Welsh Governments have issued any s54
As it would probably take at least 2 years to get any new train order in service, effectively it is only the East Coast and GWR IETs, and cross London Thameslink fleet that have ongoing guarantees
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
I don't think the 802s are part of the 27.5-year Section 54 agreement - that relates just to the DfT's IEP procurement for 800/801 (GWR/LNER).
The 802s, and all subsequent 80x, are TOC/Rosco-procured and don't seem to have a section 54 constraint.
Part of it is that bi-modes like these are like hen's teeth and there is little likelihood of them being left unleased.
Which is more than you can say for fleets like 175/180/185/22x/379.
PG
Established Member
Ah good thanks, so potentially the successor to EMR isn't tied to using the 810s if they have other ideas.
YorksLad12
Established Member
Given that the 810s were developed specifically for this route to cope with the shorter platforms at St. P, they would have to have one heck of an other idea!
Nottingham59
Established Member
A future operator could use, say, 9-car 80x units (9x26m=234m) as their standard train, in which case the 120m/240m 810s would be redundant.
They could, but I think that the idea of 9-car units on the services from St Pancras is somewhat wishful thinking.
STINT47
Member
9 cars on every train? Don't be daft these are services to the East Midlands.