Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[Chiltern006]

Northern claim their digital train modification programme is complete. Which is interesting, as the ex-EMR 156s most certainly do not include onboard WiFi or USB charging sockets.

183,000 hours and 725 kilometres of electric cable later - Northern’s £multi-million 'digital train' makeover programme is COMPLETE! | Northern News

Northern is celebrating the completion of a three-year project to improve on-board technology for customers using the train operator’s services across the North of England.

media.northernrailway.co.uk

it did say this at the bottom

 

[darylyates17]

it did say this at the bottom

Which units other the EMR 156s aren't being done? 319s obviously being some.

 

[507020]

Which units other the EMR 156s aren't being done? 319s obviously being some.

769s aren’t done. I don’t know if you count these as 319s.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

150 001 and 002 don't have charging sockets, real pain when they turn up and your expecting a charging opportunity

 

[diligentdave]

150 001 and 002 don't have charging sockets, real pain when they turn up and your expecting a charging opportunity

The nature of the prototypes doesn't allow for digital train fitment. For this to work they need to be fitted with the upgraded Elite alternator systems and the engineering is expensive and complicated for these two units so they wont get done.

 

[AMD]

The 319s won't be done, as too much cost for a short lease period (unknown but being measured in months, not years).
Former EMR 156s will get the digital mods once a contract is signed for the work.
769s - not confirmed - on lease till 2026 so worth doing, we should know pretty soon as the fleet goes through exam and mods starting in May (next month), so decision has to be made pretty soon.

 

[Adam Evans]

Former EMR 156s will get the digital mods once a contract is signed for the work.
769s - not confirmed - on lease till 2026 so worth doing, we should know pretty soon as the fleet goes through exam and mods starting in May (next month), so decision has to be made pretty soon.

Once these are done, maybe they could install USB ports at the seats on the 195s and 331s just for good measure and consistency.

 

[skyhigh]

Once these are done, maybe they could install USB ports at the seats on the 195s and 331s just for good measure and consistency.

It's being discussed...

 

[NewClee153]

It's being discussed...

That’s good, I’ve always found it out that they only have the 1 plug per 2 seats, hopefully they won’t be retrofitted but incorporated into where the current plug ports are

 

[Adam Evans]

It's being discussed...

That’s good, I’ve always found it out that they only have the 1 plug per 2 seats, hopefully they won’t be retrofitted but incorporated into where the current plug ports are

I'm glad if this is the case as it's slightly annoying having one but not the other. Although if it had to be either or then I'd choose USB ports over three-pins any day given their versatility. The three-pins are good to have as well though, but perhaps slightly less useful today than say 10 years ago

Dunno why Northern didn't do what virtually ever other operator did and just used a combined three-pin and USB port socket for every one of their units. It would've made a lot more sense.

 

[py_megapixel]

Dunno why Northern didn't do what virtually ever other operator did and just used a combined three-pin and USB port socket for every one of their units. It would've made a lot more sense.

USB charging points on trains were still a relatively new thing in 2016, when the CAF stock was ordered.

For the legacy stock - does anyone know how the system is set up? I assume one transformer and rectifier produces 5 volts DC for multiple USB ports, which would make them easier to fit compared to 3-pin sockets as you would need less high-voltage wiring in the train?

 

[JModulo]

USB charging points on trains were still a relatively new thing in 2016, when the CAF stock was ordered.

For the legacy stock - does anyone know how the system is set up? I assume one transformer and rectifier produces 5 volts DC for multiple USB ports, which would make them easier to fit compared to 3-pin sockets as you would need less high-voltage wiring in the train?

The USB sockets themselves output 5 volts, the supply to them can vary 12 to 32 volts. Same as whats used on buses.

 

[td97]

Dunno why Northern didn't do what virtually ever other operator did and just used a combined three-pin and USB port socket for every one of their units. It would've made a lot more sense.

USB-A is sliding into obsolescence . New Android phones come with a USB-C to USB-C cable. Hopefully any retrofit would be USB-C, which can deliver more power to a wider range of devices (mobiles, tablets, laptops).

 

[pokemonsuper9]

USB-A is sliding into obsolescence . New Android phones come with a USB-C to USB-C cable. Hopefully any retrofit would be USB-C, which can deliver more power to a wider range of devices (mobiles, tablets, laptops).

I've seen a decent amount of modern ports (not on trains in other places) having one -A and one -C port on them, that could possibly work better in allowing more usage of the charging, however I'm not sure on how groups would handle that, for example when my family travel together we often all plug in our -C phones to a -A port, taking up all the available ports on a table seat.

Overall I think a mix of -A and -C would work, as even if a group has just -As, they can take turns charging.
It's another conversion period, but hopefully C-C becomes standard sooner than later, if it does, then two -Cs would work well

 

[Agent_Squash]

I'm glad if this is the case as it's slightly annoying having one but not the other. Although if it had to be either or then I'd choose USB ports over three-pins any day given their versatility. The three-pins are good to have as well though, but perhaps slightly less useful today than say 10 years ago

Dunno why Northern didn't do what virtually ever other operator did and just used a combined three-pin and USB port socket for every one of their units. It would've made a lot more sense.

You can plug a USB cable into a three pin adapter - it may work for your phone, but anyone wants to charge their laptop they’re stuffed!

And besides, Apple (biggest manufacturer in UK market) hasn’t included USB-A (what’s been fitted to trains) in years.

 

[Halish Railway]

There are a number of empty coaching stock movements this evening being worked by 333005 (5Z00-5Z04), starting at Skipton Broughton Road C.S., making its way to Leeds, then Ilkley, Bradford Forster Square, Skipton and then to Neville Hill, all of these workings calling at every intermediate station.

Any ideas what this is for? I ask in this thread as I have a sneaky suspicion that this might be to test TrainFX announcements on the 333s.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Sorry if this has already been answered and someone is welcome to direct me to the relevant post if so but which Northern units remain unrefurbished or only partly altered and will these be done? If not, why not?

 

[Geeves]

Just from memory it was mentioned that the two prototype 150s would not be getting plug sockets and USB charging due to a different alternator being required. I don't think any of the ex EMR 156s have been worked on internally yet.

 

[darylyates17]

Sorry if this has already been answered and someone is welcome to direct me to the relevant post if so but which Northern units remain unrefurbished or only partly altered and will these be done? If not, why not?

319s wont be completed due them being replaced by the WMT 323s,769s dont have the digi mods yet but its not known if they'll be done, the EMR 156s haven't been refurbed yet as they've not singed a contract and I think they are the only ones other than the 319 seat moquette not to have been done.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Thanks

Hope those 156s will vet done in time

 

[skyhigh]

Any ideas what this is for?

Test run after repair work. It also went to Doncaster this morning.

I ask in this thread as I have a sneaky suspicion that this might be to test TrainFX announcements on the 333s.

No, it's not fitted with TrainFX.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Apr 2023 ==

For the legacy stock - does anyone know how the system is set up? I assume one transformer and rectifier produces 5 volts DC for multiple USB ports, which would make them easier to fit compared to 3-pin sockets as you would need less high-voltage wiring in the train?

You simply could not have 240v sockets on a 15x without major work. The USB sockets required upgraded alternators along with other energy saving mods such as replacing the lighting with LED tubes. You'd need more powerful engines and alternators to run 240v sockets.

 

[JModulo]

You simply could not have 240v sockets on a 15x without major work. The USB sockets required upgraded alternators along with other energy saving mods such as replacing the lighting with LED tubes. You'd need more powerful engines and alternators to run 240v sockets.

Absolutely nothing to do with the engines. The scotrail ones run just fine, and haven't had different alternators.

 

[connorwilsonwy]

No, it's not fitted with TrainFX.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Apr 2023 ==

The new display screens in the 333 refurb are trainfx, but the destination screens are normal Siemens

 

[Britannia94]

Out of curiosity is there or was there ever a plan to upgrade the announcements on the 333s? Either to Train FX or something else?

 

[connorwilsonwy]

Out of curiosity is there or was there ever a plan to upgrade the announcements on the 333s? Either to Train FX or something else?

Due to the refurbished new screens installed on 333s there isn’t enough of them situated in clear view in some parts of the carriage, I had been told the announcement system on the train is Siemens and has been declared obsolete so I believe if one breaks their buggered.

Depending on what routes are inputted into the system as there is a route where a 333 doesn’t stop at Crossflatts or Saltaire sometimes and the PIS won’t be switched on at all for that journey, I’m not sure if there has been any new stations opened since the 333s have been introduced on the Leeds-Doncaster route but the PIS may not be coded for the Leeds-Doncaster route.

I’d be surprised after the refurbishments if Northern do install trainfx on the system and I wonder how they would do it, would they install the displays where the old ones originally were which I believe they’ve done on some 170s or will it be the colour led screens found on some 3 car 158s I believe that belong to northern

 

[Halish Railway]

Depending on what routes are inputted into the system as there is a route where a 333 doesn’t stop at Crossflatts or Saltaire sometimes and the PIS won’t be switched on at all for that journey, I’m not sure if there has been any new stations opened since the 333s have been introduced on the Leeds-Doncaster route but the PIS may not be coded for the Leeds-Doncaster route.

Supposedly the 333s do have the announcements for all stations on the Leeds to Doncaster route programmed in. Re. new stations, there is also Apperley Bridge and Kirkstall Forge where a manual announcement has to be made.

If in the unlikely circumstance that 333s find their way onto Leeds to York or Huddersfield stopping services once TRU sees those routes electrified then TrainFX would be needed for the PIS and announcements.

 

[Harvey B]

Due to the refurbished new screens installed on 333s there isn’t enough of them situated in clear view in some parts of the carriage, I had been told the announcement system on the train is Siemens and has been declared obsolete so I believe if one breaks their buggered.

Depending on what routes are inputted into the system as there is a route where a 333 doesn’t stop at Crossflatts or Saltaire sometimes and the PIS won’t be switched on at all for that journey, I’m not sure if there has been any new stations opened since the 333s have been introduced on the Leeds-Doncaster route but the PIS may not be coded for the Leeds-Doncaster route.

I’d be surprised after the refurbishments if Northern do install trainfx on the system and I wonder how they would do it, would they install the displays where the old ones originally were which I believe they’ve done on some 170s or will it be the colour led screens found on some 3 car 158s I believe that belong to northern

Do the 333's work the Leeds to Doncaster Route now?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Apr 2023 ==

Also, I've seen a rumour that the 333 Announcements are going to be Switched over from Martin Oldfield to Trisha Jarman at some point this year, can anyone confirm please?

 

[skyhigh]

The new display screens in the 333 refurb are trainfx, but the destination screens are normal Siemens

Nonsense I'm afraid, the screens that have been added are nothing to do with TrainFX and have no connection to that system. They're made by a completely different manufacturer.

Due to the refurbished new screens installed on 333s there isn’t enough of them situated in clear view in some parts of the carriage

Have a look at a modified 170. The original screens are replaced by standard TrainFX orange LED panels in the same location. The new colour screens are additional to the TFx ones. When TFx is installed on the 333s the same will happen.

I had been told the announcement system on the train is Siemens and has been declared obsolete so I believe if one breaks their buggered.

It is obsolete, but there are spare parts and failed units are replaced pretty regularly. It's not an issue.

PIS may not be coded for the Leeds-Doncaster route.

It is.

Supposedly the 333s do have the announcements for all stations on the Leeds to Doncaster route programmed in.

I can confirm they definitely have the announcements.

Out of curiosity is there or was there ever a plan to upgrade the announcements on the 333s? Either to Train FX or something else?

Yes, it will be done once the 170s are finished.

Do the 333's work the Leeds to Doncaster Route now?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Apr 2023 ==

Not at the moment but they will do at some point in the not too distant future.

Also, I've seen a rumour that the 333 Announcements are going to be Switched over from Martin Oldfield to Trisha Jarman at some point this year, can anyone confirm please?

They will get standard fleet announcements when they get TFx

 

[northernchris]

Was on 170473 earlier today and noticed this has been fitted with auto announcements and PIS like the 158s have. It sounded quite crackly but still a vast improvement on 'Welcome to this Class 170 Turbostar' message the previous screens display.

 

[Harvey B]

Was on 170473 earlier today and noticed this has been fitted with auto announcements and PIS like the 158s have. It sounded quite crackly but still a vast improvement on 'Welcome to this Class 170 Turbostar' message the previous screens display.

Can someone record a video of a 170 with auto announcements if anyone gets one please?