Onboard bus announcements to be made mandatory

[Bletchleyite]

A female voice, with its higher pitch, is also preferable (if we're allowed to say that now!) As a matter of interest, how many UK tram systems have on-board announcements? I've never paid much attention - Sheffield certainly has them and I think Edinburgh and Croydon, but Manchester Metrolink doesn't (unless there's been a recent change). A cheery voice on call centres is really annoying.

Metrolink definitely does and has since day one of the M5000s.

 

[Goldfish62]

A female voice, with its higher pitch, is also preferable (if we're allowed to say that now!) As a matter of interest, how many UK tram systems have on-board announcements? I've never paid much attention - Sheffield certainly has them and I think Edinburgh and Croydon, but Manchester Metrolink doesn't (unless there's been a recent change). A cheery voice on call centres is really annoying.

They all do. Including Manchester Metrolink, which has had them for as long as I can remember going back years.

 

[J-2739]

You guys are way too fast , I was ready to jump with an answer!

I wouldn't mind an equivalent of the Metrolink announcements on the buses round here. Concise, but still suitable to its context. Unfortunately, Stagecoach are falling behind in this aspect.

 

[geoffk]

They all do. Including Manchester Metrolink, which has had them for as long as I can remember going back years.

That shows how much I pay attention as I've used Metrolink far more than any other systems and for 17 years until I moved away! It's easier to find your way round rail-based systems and most of us on this forum will have done our research before travelling, so generally know where we are and where we are going. With buses in an unfamiliar area it's more difficult, even to those who understand how bus networks work, as I discovered a few years ago when visiting Cork for the first time and struggled with the information on offer.

 

[Wolfie]

Great news, not only of great benefit to the disabled but will also make bus travel less stressful for those making journeys in unfamiliar areas. As a young person it's easy for me to follow along with an unfamiliar bus route on Google Maps on my smartphone to know where I need to get off, yet it can still be a bit of a stressful experience - it must be all the more difficult for those less well-versed in technology or those who don't own a smartphone. It seems rather silly that it's taken this long for announcements and visual information to become mandatory but at least it's finally happening.

I just hope most operators go to the effort of recording full voice-acted announcements - I remember a few years ago I was in Bristol and the on-board announcements were using a text-to-speech program that kept mispronouncing stop names. Amusing, but a very poor effort.

Agreed. It is depressing how many folk seem more concerned with their personal aural irritation rather than providing assistance to people who may well desperately need it.

 

[Geordie driver]

A female voice, with its higher pitch, is also preferable (if we're allowed to say that now). Other than "next stop" and other information like a ticket boundary, announcements should be short and to the point. A while ago First buses in West Yorkshire had an announcement "please remain seated until the bus stops", presumably activated by pressing the bell. It soon disappeared, no doubt because passengers and drivers alike found it annoying. We don't want buses to follow the railway example of endless safety and security announcements!

I think the endless announcements is inevitable. The only experience I have of this is the Tyne and Wear metro, I find it wearing and makes for an unpleasant journey IMHO, but I can see why some people want it.

 

[Mikey C]

As an able bodied person I find these most useful on rural routes where missing a stop can mean a good hike down a road with no footpath, and the speed of the bus can mean that you are way behind the curve if you're self tracking on bustimes.

I'm a pretty expert map reader and navigator, but even I struggle to catch that one crucial farmhouse on a bend which signals the stop is imminent.

I find myself, when new to an area, having to track the journey on my phone, so that I know roughly where I am. Having a simple announcement would be a big help in making buses more user friendly and attractive.

 

[Wolfie]

I won't avoid a joinery but I certainly enjoy it less as I (and many other autistic people) find too many noises difficult to handle. I've had the discussion before and it's very much helping people with one set of disabilities while making it harder for those with other difficulties.

Next stop screens though, I think we are unanimously agreed that would be a good thing. The announcements is where things become less agreed.

As I've said before, screens I 100% fully agree with. Couldn't agree more if I tried. It's such a shame to see so many screens installed doing absolutely sod all. Chester Park and Ride buses are bad for it. Pre COVID they had 1 bus in beachball and now post COVID they have reduced the PVR on the P&R so more buses in the new corporate livery. All of these buses have next stop screens but none of them work unless they are on the P&R route. Why not set it up for other routes that the buses commonly do? Arriva Leicester's new buses, all have screens but they just do general promotion. Many Stagecoach buses have TV screens showing CCTV, this could instead be used to show next stops.

While l agree much of that l would note that screens are precious little use to those with visual disabilities...

 

[jon0844]

The railway have rules on degraded operation, so people aren't always dumped in the middle of nowhere - so why should it be different for a bus? System fails, can run in service until back at the depot. Pretty simple concept to understand. Some buses that aren't accessible are also allowed to run as long as there are alternatives (either another bus or a taxi).

And my point wasn't that you should be able to track all empty buses, rather that it is a limitation of the system. Same happens for trains, but on the railway control should amend the system to show a train as cancelled. At a bus stop, you simply won't know the bus doesn't exist in many circumstances because I don't think there's a standard way to notify of a bus not running.

Twitter is used by my bus company, but not everyone uses Twitter and those with disabilities may not even be able to.

I do wish people would take accessibility more seriously. It's bizarre to argue you don't need it at times because everyone on the bus is a regular that doesn't need it. They're public transport, not chartered services.

 

[KT550]

I was on a Stagecoach bus in Inverness recently, one of their new Yutong E10 electric buses.

There was a small screen which presumably shows next stop information but it wasn't being used, so no audible or visual stop information which was confusing for a lot of the passengers
who had originated at the airport and were unsure when it had reached the final stop at the bus station.

The bus stop at Inverness Airport railway station was completely blank too, with no clue as to what buses called there.
Perhaps it's just a Stagecoach thing.

 

[185]

Announcements on trains are fine, with a stopping pattern of every 5-8 minutes on average. Announcements on buses every 30 seconds are probably not. For the 2-3% of passengers who need them, maybe they're great. For the 97% of passengers that don't - less so, to quote one passenger "like water torture".

Imagine a passenger considering moving to the bus from the car. Every one of the seventy bus stops announced on their morning commute. And back home. Often in two languages. Recorded loudly, in an irritating excited voice. Also has to stand up as around 10-12 seats are removed from modern vehicles. I agree that buses should always be accessible and usable by all, but massive financial cuts are coming in the next few months and the bus industry needs to remain pragmatic attracting both paying customers as well as the ones don't have to pay - otherwise there will be no bus at all.

The solution for passengers could be - announcements only occurring when the bell is pressed, quieter announcements only in the PRM area, or a bespoke mobile app which picks up the bus onboard systems and announces the stops on the user's phone.

This should be about striking a balance, never making the bus an unattractive unviable alternative to the car.

 

[Goldfish62]

People really are overthinking this whole subject on this thread.

Three things have always stood out as deterrents to using buses:
1. How do I know of the timetabled bus will turn up on time and how late it might be?
2. How do I know how much change I will need for my fare?
3. How do I know when it's my stop?

1. and 2. to a large extent have been resolved. 3 is still very much work in progress outside London. Operators were warned several years ago that next-stop announcements would be legislated, but there has been pathetically slow progress since.

This country is well-behind the rest of Europe, where audio and visual announcements have been the norm for years.

 

[markymark2000]

The railway have rules on degraded operation, so people aren't always dumped in the middle of nowhere - so why should it be different for a bus? System fails, can run in service until back at the depot. Pretty simple concept to understand. Some buses that aren't accessible are also allowed to run as long as there are alternatives (either another bus or a taxi).

Someone has clearly not been on TFW services lately. Over 50% of services ran by TFW don't have the PIS set up to show destination, next stop displays or announcements!

And my point wasn't that you should be able to track all empty buses, rather that it is a limitation of the system. Same happens for trains, but on the railway control should amend the system to show a train as cancelled. At a bus stop, you simply won't know the bus doesn't exist in many circumstances because I don't think there's a standard way to notify of a bus not running.

There is, it's on many apps and can be easily done without having buses track not in service. Apps by Passenger already do this and as does the Arriva and Stagecoach apps.

Twitter is used by my bus company, but not everyone uses Twitter and those with disabilities may not even be able to.

Any other demands? Tracking when a bus isn't in service, now complaining that companies don't use all social medias in existence. It's down to companies to decide what social media they do. It they deem it appropriate, they will use more social medias. The teams who cover social media are not that big and insisting they cover more social medias means slower response times.

I do wish people would take accessibility more seriously. It's bizarre to argue you don't need it at times because everyone on the bus is a regular that doesn't need it. They're public transport, not chartered services.

Reasonable adjustments which don't majorly affect people's lives are ok but when you are negatively going to impact many others, including those with autism (a number of people who have autism also have noise sensitivity. Most people wouldn't know what that is like but it can cause people to have breakdowns). This is why supermarkets and a number of other places do quiet times so that people with noise sensitivity can still get around and do what they need to do without being as negatively impacted. In the world ,we suffer from enough noise pollution as it is, without adding more endless drivel to the mix.

I suppose next you'll be saying remove all lower deck seats on the bus so that you can fit 8 wheelchairs on a bus!

Announcements will help some, that no one can dispute but it also negatively impacts others but that is why I am more in favour of an app based service or something personal so that people with these needs can easily access them without having to negatively impact other people's lives.

 

[WAB]

Reasonable adjustments which don't majorly affect people's lives are ok but when you are negatively going to impact many others, including those with autism (a number of people who have autism also have noise sensitivity. Most people wouldn't know what that is like but it can cause people to have breakdowns). This is why supermarkets and a number of other places do quiet times so that people with noise sensitivity can still get around and do what they need to do without being as negatively impacted. In the world ,we suffer from enough noise pollution as it is, without adding more endless drivel to the mix.

Noise cancelling headphones, then? London Buses have had this tech for 15+ years and it hasn't caused major issues? I don't think requiring people to download an app for each operator and use their own data and battery life to constantly track their position is particularly reasonable either, really.

 

[Goldfish62]

Noise cancelling headphones, then? London Buses have had this tech for 15+ years and it hasn't caused major issues? I don't think requiring people to download an app for each operator and use their own data and battery life to constantly track their position is particularly reasonable either, really.

Indeed.

This thread has got far too bizarre for me.

 

[dm1]

Every one of the seventy bus stops announced on their morning commute..

If the average commuter has 70 bus stops on their route, that is in itself a strong indication that increasing the stop spacing would be a good idea and would have a much bigger impact on the quality of the journey than the number of announcements.

This should be about striking a balance, never making the bus an unattractive unviable alternative to the car.

If done well, announcements can be very unobtrusive. But if they are done at all, they are often not done well here.

All of the comments above point to the fact that what's missing is an overall system approach - where each operator can feed their routes into the system, with all the stops, in real time, so that announcements can be implemented everywhere and real time tracking works. Proper service control so that cancelled or delayed services and disruption are promptly fed into the system are also needed.

Basically a proper bus system needs more or less the same back end planning, service control, fares and real time information as a rail system, if on a slightly smaller scale. The fact that this isn't the case almost anywhere outside London speaks volumes to the state of Britain's bus network.

 

[WAB]

Basically a proper bus system needs more or less the same back end planning, service control, fares and real time information as a rail system, if on a slightly smaller scale. The fact that this isn't the case almost anywhere outside London speaks volumes to the state of Britain's bus network.

Yes, buses are like the Wild West in comparison to the railways, which is probably one reason why people with cars may choose to use trains, but rarely buses.

 

[jon0844]

Exactly!

 

[VioletEclipse]

Major operators (ie Lothian) will likely manage to have working stop announcements across their whole fleet by 2026 fairly easily. There are some small operators which are making an effort to introduce stop announcements. However, there are operators who don't give the impression of being prepared to introduce stop announcements on time. I am thinking mainly of two West Lothian based companies who operate many 15-20 year old Optares and often the only working display on the bus is the front destination screen, and even that isn't guaranteed.

I am glad to hear that this is finally going to become mandatory, it makes a significant difference for various different people in a load of situations and should really have been common 25-30 years ago.

 

[Wolfie]

Reasonable adjustments which don't majorly affect people's lives are ok but when you are negatively going to impact many others, including those with autism (a number of people who have autism also have noise sensitivity. Most people wouldn't know what that is like but it can cause people to have breakdowns). This is why supermarkets and a number of other places do quiet times so that people with noise sensitivity can still get around and do what they need to do without being as negatively impacted. In the world ,we suffer from enough noise pollution as it is, without adding more endless drivel to the mix.

You are essentially asking for a adjustment to meet your requirements which is detrimental to reasonable adjustments made to meet those of others. The question then is whether the adjustment you want is reasonable.

What is being proposed for the UK, very belatedly, has been commonplace in most of Europe for at least thirty years. As such there is little doubt that it is eminently reasonable.

 

[padbus]

It's not just smaller operators that will be affected. None of the Stagecoach buses here in Exeter have display screens for next stop announcements, let alone have working ones. How much would it cost to retrofit the equipment to a bus? Desirable as next stop announcements may be, it is still going to be a big expense at a time when the industry is suffering financial woes.

 

[geoffk]

It's not just smaller operators that will be affected. None of the Stagecoach buses here in Exeter have display screens for next stop announcements, let alone have working ones. How much would it cost to retrofit the equipment to a bus? Desirable as next stop announcements may be, it is still going to be a big expense at a time when the industry is suffering financial woes.

I use buses in Exeter and have noticed small screens at the front off side of single deckers - always blank though or containing a test message. I assume these are meant to show the next stop. Services 12 Newton Abbot - Brixham and 22 Dawlish Warren - Paignton are, I think, the only services in Devon to have audio-visual next stop announcements, funded by Torbay Council.

 

[philthetube]

A female voice, with its higher pitch, is also preferable (if we're allowed to say that now). Other than "next stop" and other information like a ticket boundary, announcements should be short and to the point. A while ago First buses in West Yorkshire had an announcement "please remain seated until the bus stops", presumably activated by pressing the bell. It soon disappeared, no doubt because passengers and drivers alike found it annoying. We don't want buses to follow the railway example of endless safety and security announcements!

male for routine, female for important is the way they should go.

 

[GusB]

As we've gone so far off-topic, it can be assumed that there's nothing further to discuss on the topic of mandatory announcements, therefore this thread will terminate here.