Trivia: Rare or unique Gadgetbahn systems from around the world

[D365]

It's a rubber tired train with a central guiderail, there's lots of them around the world, especially at airports, including Stansted and Heathrow. There used to be a shorter one to a pier at the south terminal as well.

There are actually very few that aren't at airports, so although this system is relatively successful in that environment, it shows that even a technically proven product doesn't find much application elsewhere. Although the VAL light metro mentioned somewhere above is kinda similar.

What makes them so popular as airport transit? Compared to, say, a tram.

 

[stuu]

What makes them so popular as airport transit? Compared to, say, a tram.

I assume simplicity. The load bearing tracks are usually concrete so need very little maintenance, and the wheels and brakes use standard road components, so you don't need much specialist equipment to maintain them. There must be a point at which the running costs become disadvantages at which point steel wheels make more sense, which is why rubber tyred metros seem to be a bit of a dead end technology - they have been abandoned for new lines in the cities with the biggest networks

 

[edwin_m]

What makes them so popular as airport transit? Compared to, say, a tram.

I assume simplicity. The load bearing tracks are usually concrete so need very little maintenance, and the wheels and brakes use standard road components, so you don't need much specialist equipment to maintain them. There must be a point at which the running costs become disadvantages at which point steel wheels make more sense, which is why rubber tyred metros seem to be a bit of a dead end technology - they have been abandoned for new lines in the cities with the biggest networks

Trams generally work best at ground level and can share roadspace with other users. However, roadspace in an airport is usually pretty limited, and access is often needed direct to upper or lower levels, so there is a need to go elevated or underground. Once you've done that, it makes sense to go for an automated system to reduce the staffing costs. There doesn't appear to be a steel wheel option for systems of this scale, though maybe a Coventry-style VLR would work once proven elsewhere.

 

[stuu]

Trams generally work best at ground level and can share roadspace with other users. However, roadspace in an airport is usually pretty limited, and access is often needed direct to upper or lower levels, so there is a need to go elevated or underground. Once you've done that, it makes sense to go for an automated system to reduce the staffing costs. There doesn't appear to be a steel wheel option for systems of this scale, though maybe a Coventry-style VLR would work once proven elsewhere.

I would guess that the precision/adhesion of rubber tyres is useful for high-frequency automated shuttles, as you correctly say, they are pretty much the only choice for small systems

 

[D365]

... and access is often needed direct to upper or lower levels...

I would guess that the precision/adhesion of rubber tyres is useful for high-frequency automated shuttles, as you correctly say, they are pretty much the only choice for small systems

On this point - one of my thoughts was whether tyred vehicles are better at handling the gradient transitions.

 

[edwin_m]

I would guess that the precision/adhesion of rubber tyres is useful for high-frequency automated shuttles, as you correctly say, they are pretty much the only choice for small systems

Quite possibly, though automation technology has advanced and it now appears possible to achieve the same sort of precision with steel wheels.

On this point - one of my thoughts was whether tyred vehicles are better at handling the gradient transitions.

Transitions maybe but the actual gradients certainly. Steel wheel tops out at about 10% gradient, unless you're in Lisbon, and gradient would make the adhesion issues more critical. Rubber tyre can do 20% or more if it has to, the limit probably being passenger safety and comfort rather than loss of adhesion on the wheels. For the same reason rubber tyre can give better acceleration and deceleration rates, but the benefit is questionable in practice when the Paris Metro rubber tyre trains have warning notices telling people they have to hold on because of the risk of sudden braking.

 

[Rick1984]

They also allow you to wheel luggage trolleys on and off

 

[edwin_m]

They also allow you to wheel luggage trolleys on and off

If this is referring to rubber-tyre vehicles, it's also true of steel-wheel vehicles. It's only railways that have to remain compatible with various legacy standards that have to have a step on entry to the vehicle.

 

[superalbs]

I was going to suggest the Opicina tramway, but apparently it hasn't run since 2016.

Due to come back VERY soon I believe, tests have been happening recently.

 

[PTR 444]

Would you say the recently retired TVR system in Nancy, France fits the criteria?

 

[edwin_m]

Would you say the recently retired TVR system in Nancy, France fits the criteria?

It was unique for several years after the closure of the only other one (Caen), and is slightly different from the slightly less unusual Translohr system. In case anyone isn't aware, there's a separate thread.

 

[randyrippley]

On the other hand, long established one-of-a-kind systems such as the San Francisco cable car system,................

The San Francisco system isn't one-of-a-kind.
It's long gone, but a similar system existed in Douglas, Isle-of-Man. One car still exists

 

[stuu]

The San Francisco system isn't one-of-a-kind.
It's long gone, but a similar system existed in Douglas, Isle-of-Man. One car still exists

And one still exists in Llandudno

 

[Bletchleyite]

And one still exists in Llandudno

Llandudno is a traditional funicular (well, two of them) with the two balanced cars permanently connected to the cable, it just happens to have some street running. SF has a gripman (I think that's the term) connecting and disconnecting them to/from a continuously moving cable. I'm not sure if the latter does exist anywhere else - Lisbon perhaps?

Which IoM one was like SF?

 

[Rick1984]

If this is referring to rubber-tyre vehicles, it's also true of steel-wheel vehicles. It's only railways that have to remain compatible with various legacy standards that have to have a step on entry to the vehicle.

More automated people movers in general over conventional rail or tram. They're just designed in a more accessible way that allows seamless transfer, akin to getting into a lift rather than boarding public transport

 

[stuu]

Llandudno is a traditional funicular (well, two of them) with the two balanced cars permanently connected to the cable, it just happens to have some street running. SF has a gripman (I think that's the term) connecting and disconnecting them to/from a continuously moving cable. I'm not sure if the latter does exist anywhere else - Lisbon perhaps?

Which IoM one was like SF?

Oh yes, of course it is. The Lisbon ones are the same. Wikipedia says SF is unique now

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Apr 2023 ==

More automated people movers in general over conventional rail or tram. They're just designed in a more accessible way that allows seamless transfer, akin to getting into a lift rather than boarding public transport

What difference does rubber tyres make to that?

 

[edwin_m]

Oh yes, of course it is. The Lisbon ones are the same. Wikipedia says SF is unique now.

Several cities operated cable-hauled trams of the San Francisco type before electric traction became widespread. Edinburgh springs to mind.

 

[Rescars]

Several cities operated cable-hauled trams of the San Francisco type before electric traction became widespread. Edinburgh springs to mind.

As did the Glasgow Subway.

Surely one of the most unusual rope worked arrangements was tha Agudio system, in which a moving rope was used to power a rack locomotive. This was used on the Sassi-Superga tramway in Turin and a few other locations. If you can find an illustration, the complexity of the machine may suggest at least one reason why it didn't prove very popular!

 

[dazzler]

Llandudno is a traditional funicular (well, two of them) with the two balanced cars permanently connected to the cable, it just happens to have some street running. SF has a gripman (I think that's the term) connecting and disconnecting them to/from a continuously moving cable. I'm not sure if the latter does exist anywhere else - Lisbon perhaps?

Which IoM one was like SF?

Presumably Upper Douglas Cable Tramway.
Edinburgh had cable trams as well.

Moving abroad, Melbourne and Sydney in Australia both had cable trams.

 

[randyrippley]

Which IoM one was like SF?

The Upper Douglas Cable Tramway
Both termini were on Douglas Promenade, at the Clock Tower and Broadway. The line followed a U shaped route serving Victoria Street, Prospect Hill, Buck's Road, Woodbourne Road, York Road, Ballaquayle Road, and Broadway

a couple of relevant links

Upper Douglas Cable Tramway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Upper Douglas Tramway

www.tramwaybadgesandbuttons.com

 

[Rick1984]

What difference does rubber tyres make to that?

None. I wasn't discussing the rubber aspect of said automated people movers, just why they might be chosen over say a tram. No reason you couldn't have something similar with metal wheels and tracks. Though as said if your system is undulating the extra adhesion is useful

 

[341o2]

Lisbon's route 12 was originally a cable tram, now converted to electric.

The clockwork tram must be pretty unique
The Pechot Bourdon Farlie variant must be unique to France. Principal difference was that it had a single dome.
There was also a Modified Fairlie for South Africa, which resembled a Garrat, but had the boiler, water and fuel tanks directly mounted onto a single frame with pivoting bogies, as opposed to the Garrat having the fuel and water tanks mounted directly on the bogies.

Bournemouth's trolleybus turntable is only one of three which ever existed, the second was at Huddersfield and the third in Germany

The former Guinness Brewery railway had a spiral railway in a tunnel, narrow gauge locomotives designed by Samuel Geoghegan, which could be mounted on "haulage wagons", thereby becoming broad gauge locomotives