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A London BusTram anyone?

Feasible?

  • Only if you guide it some other way

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Only if I can have one all to myself

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    21
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Fleetmaster

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Is anyone else seeing the potential benefits of a bi-articulated partially guided rubber tyred opportunity charged battery driven tram like vehicle operating on London streets?

Long ranging routes radiating out from central London, with a possibility of some outer rings.

Out in the boonies, it is essentially just a giant articulated bus. Fast and frequent. A people mover. It is low floor but requires a step from ordinary street level bus stops, with optional ramps at the wheelchair bays.

It can climb any hill a conventional bus can.

In the central core, it is fully guided, using only a narrow gapped cycle friendly central rail, which allows for tram style safe and level boarding at tram style stops and tight turns. This blends in and yet doesn't hog the space within the increasingly car free multi use areas of central London.

Elsewhere, short sections of guidance help it keep lane discipline and make tight turns where required. Obviously you design the route network to minimize this need, seeing it as more of a tram like supplement to the more widespread use of conventional buses, with the advantage that buses and BusTram can share stops and roads.

Optionally, guidance can also be used to make it more efficient to serve major hubs in the outer areas.

The guidance rail requires minimal infrastructure. London can invest in harder wearing concrete running lanes as and when the tarmac is worn away.

There are no overhead wires, although overhead gantry at terminal stops is the most likely way to opportunity charge. Very low cost, easily integrated into other bus or even car/van charging infrastructure.

The transfer between guidance and non-guidance and any pointwork as such would have to be simple and seamless and 99.9999% reliable. Surely not beyond the capabilities of the engineers.

The vehicles would be relatively simple in design and thus easier to maintain than the equivalent buses they take off the streets, which would hopefully make up for any anticipated higher energy or wear related running costs.

Battery running means they can be housed anywhere the buses can reach.

Where conveneint, BusTram only gates and segregated running are a possibility but hardly essential.

Future developments would be designed with BusTram in mind, up to and including rapid transit style flyovers and other cool stuff.

It would require very little from TfL, except perhaps a few more eagle eyed traffic wardens. Giving these vehicles full traffic priority would be uncontroversial I would have thought, given they wouldn't really need to run at a very high frequency before the gains over the conventional buses the replace become evident.
 
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RailUK Forums

https_please

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You're almost thinking of the system just retired in Nancy, the TVR. Articulated rubber tyred buses with a central guide rail in the city centre.

Theirs wasn't battery powered, making it even more trolleybus-like.

See this video
 

Fleetmaster

Member
Joined
28 Feb 2023
Messages
353
Location
Hounslow
You're almost thinking of the system just retired in Nancy, the TVR. Articulated rubber tyred buses with a central guide rail in the city centre.

Theirs wasn't battery powered, making it even more trolleybus-like.

See this video
You're exactly right. I got the idea while posting in that very thread.
 

fandroid

Established Member
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9 Nov 2014
Messages
2,563
Location
Hampshire
The Nancy guided trolleybus was a bit bizarre, or did it run free of the guide rails (and the trolley wires?) at some part of the network. I'm sure the Clermont-Ferrand system I rode on used pantographs and the guide rail took the return current. So that was a bit nearer to tram.

Is the use of guidance that critical for urban running? After all, most buses can pull close enough into a stop for level boarding for wheelchairs. In London the bus mounted ramps are powered. If guidance around tight corners would be good for articulated buses, surely some form of embedded cable could be followed? Far less hassle than annoying curved steel grooves in the tarmac.
 
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Bletchleyite

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20 Oct 2014
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No, no and no. Normal electric buses (not even the badly polished turd that is the "ie tram") or actual trams. Or even trolleybuses, but these aren't guided.

Nothing that locks into a specific technology, in other words.
 

Bletchleyite

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The cost of the infrastructure would just be better spent on a tramway. Guided busways are a waste of time when trams already exist.

Guided buses serve one purpose, and one purpose alone - fitting a two way busway with a decently high speed limit and a separate cycle path into the footprint of a double track railway. You could just do a normal road but then cycles have to share space with buses (as they do on the Gosport one) which isn't good, and it means no pedestrian provision at all.

Other than that, guided buses are pointless expense. If there's a driver there, they can just drive it.
 

Fleetmaster

Member
Joined
28 Feb 2023
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353
Location
Hounslow
To be clear, this isn't a guided bus in the normal UK sense. The guidance sections are capable of being fully shared, even with cyclists, because it's not a rail but a narrow groove, like a soakaway.

And amongst other things, the guidance is there precisely because getting tram style alignments at stops and in curves with bi-articulated buses is (as far as I know) not really possible with conventional steering.

It's essentially tram without the expense or intrusion of overhead wires or the need to run actual rails all the way along every route.
 

MattRat

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26 May 2021
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Liverpool
If you ask the general public, they want trams. Considering we are supposed to be a democracy, why are those in charge not listening to the people, and instead pushing gadgetbahn scams onto us?
 
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