International trams

[DanielB]

As far as I can remember, local 'Tarifverbund' day tickets are valid on the whole of route 10 but for cross-border travel on routes 3 and 8 a 'TriRegio' day ticket is required.

For routes 3 and 8 only, a TriRegio ticket mini would be sufficient which is only 60 cents more expensive than the Basel Agglo day ticket.

For route 10 the zonal map confirms the TNW-tickets are valid on the entire line, as the French town of Leymen is considered part of zone 12. For this route you'd however need a day ticket for the entire Tarifverbund Nordwestschweiz as zone 12 is outside the Basel aglomeration.
When the intent is to only travel on the cross-border routes, it will be slightly cheaper to buy the TriRegio ticket mini and an additional single for the part of route 10 in zone 12.

 

[rvdborgt]

For route 10 the zonal map confirms the TNW-tickets are valid on the entire line, as the French town of Leymen is considered part of zone 12.

Additionally, Interrail is valid on the BLT routes such as line 10. It's not worth using a travel day for if you have a flexipass, but if you have a continuous pass, then you don't need anything extra.

 

[DeverseSam]

To be fair that's good advice for using any crowded transit system in any city. My ratio of "Cities I've visited" to "Cities I've been specifically warned about pickpockets in" is near enough 1:1, so I'd be wary of singling any one place out.

It’s well known that Spain struggles with this because any crime below €500 isn’t actually a crime, whereas I would suggest that somewhere like Krakow is more in control of such things

 

[AndrewE]

It’s well known that Spain struggles with this because any crime below €500 isn’t actually a crime, whereas I would suggest that somewhere like Krakow is more in control of such things

er, no! In Sofia the locals warned us about pickpocketing on the trams: bunches of kids or teenagers work together so that the one near you dips your pocket, and within seconds your wallet has been passed to an accomplice who gets off immediately so nobody can be searched and found to have it. We did see gangs of kids who were on the lookout for victims but kept our valuables very securely hidden.

It made me think about places where you have to carry ID by law, and whether we were taking a risk by leaving most stuff including passports in our hotel safe.

 

[AlbertBeale]

er, no! In Sofia the locals warned us about pickpocketing on the trams: bunches of kids or teenagers work together so that the one near you dips your pocket, and within seconds your wallet has been passed to an accomplice who gets off immediately so nobody can be searched and found to have it. We did see gangs of kids who were on the lookout for victims but kept our valuables very securely hidden.

It made me think about places where you have to carry ID by law, and whether we were taking a risk by leaving most stuff including passports in our hotel safe.

I think the only place I've had my pocket picked on a local tram was in Brussels many years back; though I did get something taken from my jacket - which I stupidly left hanging up in a compartment while I was outside the compartment - at an Italian terminal station once. But I always find the sense of "menace", where something seems likely to be going to happen, is (within all the European places I've been) at its height at Paris Gare de Nord, and its associated RER trains.

 

[ShadowKnight]

The thread title me think if there are(or were) any tram routes that cross a border...

 

[MCR247]

I personally enjoy the trams in Amsterdam with trams going round roundabouts as if they’re a car. That and the line which crosses a motorway at level

 

[biko]

the line which crosses a motorway at level

Not really a motorway, only line 26 crosses the slip lanes of the ring motorway, so I wouldn’t say that’s really special.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

I thought this was going to be about a tram route which crossed a national border! Are there any?

Lisbon is worth seeing (and riding the very old trams in the inner city.) Look on YouTube for lots of examples.
Also the ex-eastern bloc cities (e.g. Sofia) have some pretty extensive networks... just don't expect them to be fully reliable. We nearly got marooned out at the S end of the network when we walked from the end of one line to what should have been the start of another!

Lisbon also has a museum at the main depot which is worth doing. Get the tram toward Belem Which passes the door

 

[Lxd2]

Another really interesting tram system is the Upper Silesian Interurban tramway in Poland, with 29 lines and almost 300km long in total! It is a very varied system and some of the lines have quite rural sections running through woods. A mixture of old and new tram types. The oldest 'N' type trams on route 38 in Bytom were amazing, but they were withdrawn during the pandemic and I'm not sure if they came back again afterwards.

Silesian Interurbans - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[StephenHunter]

The thread title me think if there are(or were) any tram routes that cross a border...

Strasbourg has one as previously mentioned.

 

[Wolfie]

My cousin is a tram enthusiast. I am taking him on his first trip abroad and am happy to go anywhere in Europe. But I don't know which tram networks would be most interesting for him (e.g. length of system, different tram types, peculiarities) and there are so many to choose from. Does anyone have any suggestions.

Vienna has an extensive tram network and lots of historic buildings. I think that the fleet has been pretty much all replaced though. There are tourist rides using historic stock around the city centre and also a very comprehensive transport museum.

The Badner Bahn or Wiener Lokalbahn which runs for 30ish km using trams (or possibly tram-trains would be the correct nomenclature) between Vienna and the historic spa town of Baden might be of interest too.

 

[Beebman]

The thread title me think if there are(or were) any tram routes that cross a border...

The Belgian Vicinal system had a few border crossings but it looks like most weren't electrified and were closed in 1940 never to reopen. One line of interest was an eastern extension of the 'Kustlijn' ('Coastline') from its original eastern terminus of Oosthoek (no longer served by trams) over the border to the Dutch town of Retranchement where it linked up with the Dutch steam tram service to Breskens. This extension was electrified and ran a summer-only service from 1929 to 1939.

The tram systems of Aachen and Eupen were linked before WW1 when the latter town was still in Germany. The route between the two continued after it was transferred to Belgian territory when its trams were taken over by the SNCV but at some time a change of tram became necessary at the border - the following link has a photo from 1938 of the transfer between cars:

https://de.sporvognsrejser.dk/foto/..._vor_umsteigen_am_grenzubergang_kopfchen_1938

 

[GardenRail]

Nordhausen, Germany. Narrow gauge, and they have TramTrains that travel over the Harzer Schmalspur Bahn.

 

[railfan99]

I've travelled on quite a few of the ones above, but two that may be of interest are:

Turin, Italy: did a fair swathe in Oct 2022: some older trams, and one can connect as we did to the rack tramway to Superga with its Catholic Basilica. The city is beautiful and not overrun by tourists, unlike Florence or Rome.

Krakow, Poland: did it years ago: interesting network.

This year I will travel on a little of Brussels' network given it still has older rollingstock on at least one line.

urbanrail.net is as noted a great resource but unfortunately many of Mr Schwand's publications are out of print.

 

[AndrewE]

Lisbon also has a museum at the main depot which is worth doing. Get the tram toward Belem Which passes the door

We are ahead of the trend - or maybe mainstream now: I have just seen a Tui advert which started with film of one of the old trams in Lisbon!

 

[AlbertBeale]

We are ahead of the trend - or maybe mainstream now: I have just seen a Tui advert which started with film of one of the old trams in Lisbon!

Virtually all ads for travel to Lisbon show a pic of a yellow tram! Just like it's a rare tourist enticement for Paris which doesn't include an image of the Eiffel Tower.

 

[Adlington]

I thought this was going to be about a tram route which crossed a national border! Are there any?

Basel.
"Our vehicles operate [...] to Weil am Rhein (Germany) and Saint-Louis (France)"

 

[AndrewE]

Virtually all ads for travel to Lisbon show a pic of a yellow tram! Just like it's a rare tourist enticement for Paris which doesn't include an image of the Eiffel Tower.

but this wasn't an advert for Lisbon, it was the first film clip in a general/worldwide Tui advert.

 

[AlbertBeale]

but this wasn't an advert for Lisbon, it was the first film clip in a general/worldwide Tui advert.

Ah - right - sorry ... I misunderstood. Significant then!

 

[Taunton]

The thread title me think if there are(or were) any tram routes that cross a border...

For much of Europe nowadays borders are pretty much a non-event, no more than England into Scotland. Are there any that still have customs/immigration procedures?

The only one I recall was in El Paso, Texas, which looped into Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, and was indeed the last remaining line. Going into Mexico the authorities didn't care, straight through. Back into the USA you had to get off, join the queue to go through US procedures, which could be lengthy, and then rejoin the next tram; they ran though past this bit meantime empty and under close scrutiny. It closed very soon after I sampled it in 1974, but has apparently reopened, USA side only, in recent years, surprisingly still with the original PCC cars restored, which lay unused in the desert for the best part of 50 years.

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

Well Switzerland officially still has a customs border with its EU neighbours. There are also checks on trains between Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria in my experience

 

[Re 4/4]

Are there any [borders in Europe] that still have customs/immigration procedures?

Moving from Schengen to non-Schengen areas, yes. Even within Schengen there can be random spot checks, or more systematic goods checks (such as where people regularly cross a border to go shopping), or Schengen is occasionally suspended for terrorism/refugees/political reasons.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Best tram in my opinion is the Manx Electric Railway, plus the Snaefell tramway.
Is the Isle of man sufficiently 'abroad' for you?

 

[gingerheid]

It's possibly just me (or I could be out of date), but I thought Budapest has a really fun and varied tram network.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

I'd add a vote for Antwerp, including pre-metro sections like in Brussels, some fairly recently opened after staying half-built for more than thirty years, and one more yet to open. And of course Brussels if you're that near. Lisbon - but do all the transport while there - lifts, funiculars, metro, train over the bridge, trams on the other side and a very cheap ferry. Zurich definitely, and it's interesting that three of these "best" networks have fascinating museums - Brussels, Lisbon and Zurich.

 

[AndrewE]

Personally I would recommend Budapest and Prague. A good Website is https://www.urbanrail.net/

That website seems to suggest that there are now only Metro, suburban and State railways in Budapest. Is that true? If so, it's a big loss.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

That website seems to suggest that there are now only Metro, suburban and State railways in Budapest. Is that true? If so, it's a big loss.

The trams have their own page.

 

[AndrewE]

The trams have their own page.

That's good, thanks. I hadn't spotted the "tram" button...

 

[AdamWW]

Moving from Schengen to non-Schengen areas, yes. Even within Schengen there can be random spot checks, or more systematic goods checks (such as where people regularly cross a border to go shopping), or Schengen is occasionally suspended for terrorism/refugees/political reasons.

I'm pretty sure I saw a picture once of signs on a Swiss tram saying that you could only get off in France if you didn't have anything to declare.