Trivia: Fast and slow direct trains

[Mcr Warrior]

Edinburgh to Glasgow has 5 separate routes (Falkirk High, Falkirk Grahamston, Airdrie, Shotts, Carstairs) all of which take wildly different times.

They do indeed, but not necessarily to the exact same Glasgow station. (Post #1 refers).

 

[Warrior2852]

They do indeed, but not necessarily to the exact same Glasgow station. (Post #1 refers).

Well, there's still quite large differences between the ones at the same stations (first three Queen Street, last two Central)

 

[dk1]

0815 2R04 departure from Scarborough goes to York via Bridlington and Hull

And continues in the May TT change too

 

[MontyP]

Waterloo to Guildford - fast via Woking, slow via Cobham and even slower via Epsom

The circular routes on SWR and Merseyrail usually come up in threads like this as well e.g. Clapham Junction to Earlsfield is 3 mins direct, or 55 mins going the wrong way around the loop

 

[ValleyLines142]

Edinburgh to Glasgow has 5 separate routes (Falkirk High, Falkirk Grahamston, Airdrie, Shotts, Carstairs) all of which take wildly different times.

On a similar note, is this the record for the most number of different routes between A and B (five)?

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

Although not a regular service, there was a timetabled diversion I remember seeing during electrification work near Reading. Hereford to Swansea via Worcester, Oxford, Swindon, Gloucester (think it even stopped at Kemble etc), Newport, Cardiff. Not sure how long Hereford to Newport took, but probably many times the direct route.

 

[plugwash]

Merseyrail and TfW (when it's running) between Liverpool and Chester.

While taking totally different routes, these take roughly the same amount of time.

 

[leytongabriel]

C2C to Southend Central direct via Basildon (54m) or through Tilbury (73m) Less difference than I thought in fact as they virtually all all-station stoppers now.

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And you can have fun with some of the South London Suburban loops - Kingston via New Malden or Teddington, Sutton via Wimbledon etc.

Euston - Watford Junction by Overground ( 48m) is a tad slower than West Midlands Trains ( 14 -20m)

 

[Warrior2852]

And you can have fun with some of the South London Suburban loops - Kingston via New Malden or Teddington, Sutton via Wimbledon etc.

In a similar vein, on a Cathcart Circle looper you can either get to Pollokshields East (or West) very quickly or very slowly.

 

[Falcon1200]

Also in Scotland, Glasgow Central/Ayr, via Kilmarnock or Paisley (on one of the remaining fast trains), eg:

1A10 Glasgow C 0809, Ayr 0922 (73 mins via Kilmarnock)
1K11 Glasgow C 0830, Ayr 0918 (48 mins direct)

 

[GW43125]

On a similar note, is this the record for the most number of different routes between A and B (five)?

I make it 7 for London to Ramsgate (8 prior to December 2022):
Victoria via Faversham 1h57
Cannon St via Swanley & Faversham (peak) 2h29
Charing Cross via Tonbridge, Ashford & Canterbury W 2h07
Charing Cross via Tonbridge, Ashford & Dover (peak) 2h32
St. Pancras via Faversham 1h51
St. Pancras via Ashford & Canterbury W 1h18
St. Pancras via Ashford & Dover 2h44
Victoria via Maidstone East & Ashford (ended in December)

Could probably get 1 or 2 more by changing, and/or any random peak services I've forgotten about.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I make it 7 for London to Ramsgate (8 prior to December 2022):
Victoria via Faversham 1h57
Cannon St via Swanley & Faversham (peak) 2h29
Charing Cross via Tonbridge, Ashford & Canterbury W 2h07
Charing Cross via Tonbridge, Ashford & Dover (peak) 2h32
St. Pancras via Faversham 1h51
St. Pancras via Ashford & Canterbury W 1h18
St. Pancras via Ashford & Dover 2h44
Victoria via Maidstone East & Ashford (ended in December)

Could probably get 1 or 2 more by changing, and/or any random peak services I've forgotten about.

To be fair though, that is from five seperate London terminals.

 

[GW43125]

To be fair though, that is from five seperate London terminals.

Entirely valid, though Edinburgh-Glasgow is two.

I wonder what the most from one terminal is.

I make that tied at 3.

 

[Warrior2852]

Entirely valid, though Edinburgh-Glasgow is two.

I wonder what the most from one terminal is.

I make that tied at 3.

Sheffield-Leeds joins the 3 as well if you're going purely by routes, as you've got via Barnsley, Bolton-upon-Dearne and Doncaster all served by direct trains. Barnsley has both stoppers and semi-fasts (the latter from Nottingham) but they do the same route.

 

[dk1]

If we go back to the late 80s BR joined up several East Suffolk line services to operate Ipswich-Lowestoft-Norwich. This practice lasted only a few timetables though. Today both routes operate an hourly service & nearly all offer connections at Lowestoft & several are through journeys albeit not advertised. Conductors are very good & advise passengers when this will take place. Journey time is 135-140 minutes via this route compared to 40-45 direct.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Merseyrail and TfW (when it's running) between Liverpool and Chester.

They take almost exactly the same time.

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Birmingham to Glasgow/Edinburgh is typically an hour faster with Avanti on the WCML than with CrossCountry on the MML & ECML.

 

[scrapy]

Sheffield-Leeds joins the 3 as well if you're going purely by routes, as you've got via Barnsley, Bolton-upon-Dearne and Doncaster all served by direct trains. Barnsley has both stoppers and semi-fasts (the latter from Nottingham) but they do the same route.

Manchester Victoria to Wigan NW has three routes as well, via Bolton, Atherton and Eccles.

 

[JD2168]

Sheffield to Doncaster has:
Northern all stops via Rotherham.
Northern/TransPennine semi fast Sheffield-Meadowhall -Doncaster.
Cross Country fast no stops between Sheffield & Doncaster.

 

[Some guy]

There’s a 19:08 weekday service from Carlisle to Preston via Cumbrian coast that takes 4 hours and the direct Avanti/TPE services take about 1 hour 10 minutes.

Birmingham new street to Glasgow via east coast 6 hours 10 minutes via west coast 4 hours and 10 minutes

 

[methethpropbut]

Edinburgh to Glasgow has 5 separate routes (Falkirk High, Falkirk Grahamston, Airdrie, Shotts, Carstairs) all of which take wildly different times.

Does the Glasgow Q - Falkirk G still run through to Edinburgh? brtimes tells me they all terminate at Falkirk G these days.

 

[GordonT]

Taking the Lancaster-Carlisle via Barrow vs. Lancaster-Carlisle via Penrith example are the end-to-end fares the same on either route or is it more expensive via Barrow simply to prevent intermediate fares from having to be "suppressed"?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Taking the Lancaster-Carlisle via Barrow vs. Lancaster-Carlisle via Penrith example are the end-to-end fares the same on either route or is it more expensive via Barrow simply to prevent intermediate fares from having to be "suppressed"?

Good question. Route "via Penrith" anytime day singles from Lancaster to Carlisle are certainly slightly cheaper than their route "Any Permitted" equivalent, which you'd need to have, failing other ticket combinations, in order to travel the long way round via Barrow/Whitehaven.

 

[TheGrew]

A bit of a silly one but Eastleigh/Southampton Airport Parkway to Romsey depends on which way around the figure of 6 you go (I haven't checked if going via central would be valid routing).

 

[Gathursty]

Birmingham to Stratford Upon Avon: you can go via Whitlocks End or via Solihull and there actually is only about 5 minutes between both journey times which I'm surprised by.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Birmingham to Stratford Upon Avon: you can go via Whitlocks End or via Solihull and there actually is only about 5 minutes between both journey times which I'm surprised by.

So, not really an extreme difference, then?!

 

[Kite159]

A bit of a silly one but Eastleigh/Southampton Airport Parkway to Romsey depends on which way around the figure of 6 you go (I haven't checked if going via central would be valid routing).

A ticket from Eastleigh to Romsey would be valid via Southampton under the direct train rule. Also I believe the ticket price have never been adjusted to take into account the Chandlers Ford line reopening for passenger use as a Romsey - Eastleigh ticket is more expensive than a Romsey - Southampton Central (£8,50 for an anytime day return vice £6,00)

 

[L401CJF]

Not a huge difference, but Shrewsbury to Chester via Wrexham 54 minutes, vs Shrewsbury to Chester via Crewe 70 minutes (on 1D68)

Also the early morning Crewe to Birmingham New Street, 60 minutes on LNWR via Stafford, or 1hr 56 mins on the 0734 TFW service via Shrewsbury.

 

[MP393]

Not a huge difference, but Shrewsbury to Chester via Wrexham 54 minutes, vs Shrewsbury to Chester via Crewe 70 minutes (on 1D68)

Also the early morning Crewe to Birmingham New Street, 60 minutes on LNWR via Stafford, or 1hr 56 mins on the 0734 TFW service via Shrewsbury.

Other TFW “Oddities”

There’s Birmingham International - Manchester Piccadilly taking 1hr48 if you do it on a XC service, but the one a day direct TfW service, 1R98 at 21:08 will take you International to Piccadilly via Shrewsbury & Chester in a leisurely 3hrs14

 

[Warrior2852]

Another one down in SWR: Waterloo to Weybridge. Fastest is on a Basingstoke stopper, next fastest is on a Woking stopper, then there's the really slow route going via the Hounslow loop and Chertsey that's so slow that they pretend it's going to Addlestone on the Waterloo departure boards.

 

[GW43125]

Another one down in SWR: Waterloo to Weybridge. Fastest is on a Basingstoke stopper, next fastest is on a Woking stopper, then there's the really slow route going via the Hounslow loop and Chertsey that's so slow that they pretend it's going to Addlestone on the Waterloo departure boards.

And in the same vain, Woking on a Sunday.
24 minutes on a fast, 48 on a stopper via Surbiton, 1hr21 via Hounslow.