GWR Class 769 information. (Units no longer with GWR - Off Lease March 23)

[windnoise69]

That and the fact the unit is detached at Westbury

Stays as a 4 car (2x 165) up to Gloucester and back to Westbury as 2c22. Then splits or has 2 drivers down to Warminster due to no walking route when changing ends behind the GPL

 

[Annetts key]

Pretty sure accounting and financial years exist in the public sector!

As I understand it, a company accounting year does not have to line up with the financial year.
And the historical reason why the financial year is April to April, is due to ‘England’ remaining on the Julian calendar long after most other countries changed to the Gregorian, which we eventually adopted.

 

[Deepgreen]

Pretty sure accounting and financial years exist in the public sector!

Yes, but there's no reason why a public sector rolling stock holding strategy needs to align with financial years - BR would put stock in store/scrap, or move to another route, etc., when appropriate (most likely around timetable changes), not artifically based around Aprils.

 

[Meerkat]

Yes, but there's no reason why a public sector rolling stock holding strategy needs to align with financial years - BR would put stock in store/scrap, or move to another route, etc., when appropriate (most likely around timetable changes), not artifically based around Aprils.

My point was that the public sector still has cut off points and targets. Getting the stock off the books, or to the best accounting place for it, would still be relevant to a public sector business. How quickly did BR scrap stuff - I can't remember there being yards full withdrawn units???

 

[Annetts key]

My point was that the public sector still has cut off points and targets. Getting the stock off the books, or to the best accounting place for it, would still be relevant to a public sector business. How quickly did BR scrap stuff - I can't remember there being yards full withdrawn units???

There is a difference between owning and classing an item as depreciated (substantial reduction in the value of an item) and leasing and the end of the term of the lease. It does not matter if the company/organisation is publicly funded or a private company.

 

[Deepgreen]

My point was that the public sector still has cut off points and targets. Getting the stock off the books, or to the best accounting place for it, would still be relevant to a public sector business. How quickly did BR scrap stuff - I can't remember there being yards full withdrawn units???

I'm wondering if this is sarcasm. If not, then, yes, the country was dotted with huge arrays of withdrawn and condemned stuff that could be there for years. Micheldever, Hither Green up yard, Crewe, Stonebridge Park and so on. In the immediate case of the 769s, they are not being got off the overall rail sector's books, only transferred to another area of it for accounting reasons when perhaps they could be used for testing purposes rather than employing desperately-needed service stock for that testing (assuming they are not so dire that they would instantly fail and snarl up the testing route that is).

 

[Meerkat]

I'm wondering if this is sarcasm. If not, then, yes, the country was dotted with huge arrays of withdrawn and condemned stuff that could be there for years. Micheldever, Hither Green up yard, Crewe, Stonebridge Park and so on. In the immediate case of the 769s, they are not being got off the overall rail sector's books, only transferred to another area of it for accounting reasons when perhaps they could be used for testing purposes rather than employing desperately-needed service stock for that testing (assuming they are not so dire that they would instantly fail and snarl up the testing route that is).

No sarcasm, clearly just bad memory!
They are getting them off the publicly funded railway's books.
Is that testing worth the cost and effort of paying lease fees and crewing them etc?

 

[Deepgreen]

No sarcasm, clearly just bad memory!
They are getting them off the publicly funded railway's books.
Is that testing worth the cost and effort of paying lease fees and crewing them etc?

For the first point, maybe, but that is an artificial construct of privatisation. For the second, no idea, but with service rolling stock desperately thin on the ground, and crews needed no matter what stock is used, I suspect it to be a better strategy than using a couple of Turbos. It comes down to how highly-valued adequate service provision is.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The hand backs will be timed to coincide with the lease end dates, which can be anytime in the financial year. BR used to go Jan to Dec in it’s financial year but changed it in 1985 to go Apr to Mar. The DfT TOCs continue that practise, even if their owning groups don’t.

The strategy the DfT is currently employing is to look at the lease end dates of all the rolling stock they use and seeing what they can do away with. Obviously it doesn’t want to incur financial penalties for any early returns as that rather defeats the object of the exercise, which is to remove cost and resources from their rail businesses.

Any revised rolling stock strategy is then baked into the relevant TOC business plans.

 

[Deepgreen]

The hand backs will be timed to coincide with the lease end dates, which can be anytime in the financial year. BR used to go Jan to Dec in it’s financial year but changed it in 1985 to go Apr to Mar. The DfT TOCs continue that practise, even if their owning groups don’t.

The strategy the DfT is currently employing is to look at the lease end dates of all the rolling stock they use and seeing what they can do away with. Obviously it doesn’t want to incur financial penalties for any early returns as that rather defeats the object of the exercise, which is to remove cost and resources from their rail businesses.

Any revised rolling stock strategy is then baked into the relevant TOC business plans.

Yes, understood, but the reality is that we will have spare trains rotting away in yards which could be used for testing work to avoid using those which are needed for passenger service being diverted to that testing. Notwithstanding any financial year/accounting constructs, the situation seems/is ridiculous.

 

[Annetts key]

the situation seems/is ridiculous.

Which, to be absolutely frank, sums up the mess of a system that we have today. A lot of these problems are as a result of the way that the railways were privatised. They also occur in other industries. As you get similar stupidity whenever there are contracts.

 

[Deepgreen]

Which, to be absolutely frank, sums up the mess of a system that we have today. A lot of these problems are as a result of the way that the railways were privatised. They also occur in other industries. As you get similar stupidity whenever there are contracts.

Yes, and, at the risk of repetition, privatisation could never work properly because there are two vital missing elements; 1) genuine profit, and 2) genuine competition at point of use. Given this, any system will be sledge-hammering a square peg into a round hole.

 

[3973EXL]

Realtime Trains | 5V75 0641 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Reading Traincare Depot | 24/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 5V75 0641 departure from Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Reading Traincare Depot on 24/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q67 1142 Reading Traincare Depot to Long Marston | 24/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q67 1142 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to Long Marston on 24/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5D70 1542 Long Marston to Oxford Carriage Siding 2 | 24/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 5D70 1542 departure from Long Marston to Oxford Carriage Siding 2 on 24/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Benno]

Realtime Trains | 5V75 0641 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Reading Traincare Depot | 24/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 5V75 0641 departure from Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Reading Traincare Depot on 24/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q67 1142 Reading Traincare Depot to Long Marston | 24/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q67 1142 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to Long Marston on 24/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5D70 1542 Long Marston to Oxford Carriage Siding 2 | 24/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 5D70 1542 departure from Long Marston to Oxford Carriage Siding 2 on 24/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

These moves are no longer happening. Weds 29th March is the likely date for the first two 769s to move from Reading to Long Marston.

 

[FGW_DID]

The beginning of the end!

769935 & 769938 RG > LM

Realtime Trains | 5Z69 1040 Reading Traincare Depot to Long Marston | 28/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z69 1040 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to Long Marston on 28/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

769949 & 769930 OXF > RG

Realtime Trains | 5R69 1240 Oxford Up Carriage Sdgs to Reading Traincare Depot | 28/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 5R69 1240 departure from Oxford Up Carriage Sdgs to Reading Traincare Depot on 28/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Class15]

The beginning of the end!

769935 & 769938 RG > LM

Realtime Trains | 5Z69 1040 Reading Traincare Depot to Long Marston | 28/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z69 1040 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to Long Marston on 28/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

769949 & 769930 OXF > RG

Realtime Trains | 5R69 1240 Oxford Up Carriage Sdgs to Reading Traincare Depot | 28/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 5R69 1240 departure from Oxford Up Carriage Sdgs to Reading Traincare Depot on 28/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

What are the happy emojis for? Put the wrong ones in?

 

[FGW_DID]

What are the happy emojis for? Put the wrong ones in?

No, happy to see the back of them! Get some siding space back.

 

[Snow1964]

No, happy to see the back of them! Get some siding space back.

a very local centric answer, as they will still be in sidings, just elsewhere.

 

[zwk500]

a very local centric answer, as they will still be in sidings, just elsewhere.

But there's a world of difference between them being in sidings intended for long-term storage and tying up room in a busy depot.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Mar 2023 ==

What are the happy emojis for? Put the wrong ones in?

769s have been trouble for far too long, if they're not going to run then it's a blessing to see the back of them. Not every train is good, and not every scrap move is bad.

 

[Deepgreen]

a very local centric answer, as they will still be in sidings, just elsewhere.

Not in active service sidings they won't.

 

[Railperf]

Was shocked to see some sitting in Oxford sidings looking very clean and shiny - now debranded. But clearly the reliability figurss suggest the project was going to need too much more money spent to make them work!

 

[zwk500]

But clearly the reliability figurss suggest the project was going to need too much more money spent to make them work!

Is (was?) there a substantial difference in the reliability figures for the TfW and GWR 769s?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Is (was?) there a substantial difference in the reliability figures for the TfW and GWR 769s?

As the GWR 769s had never entered traffic it was very difficult to give a reliability figure for them.

 

[zwk500]

As the GWR 769s had never entered traffic it was very difficult to give a reliability figure for them.

Well @Railperf seems to think there was enough of one to make a decision to terminate the lease!

 

[Master29]

One wonders what the point of the 769's was in the first (pun intended) place. More wasted money.

 

[JonathanH]

One wonders what the point of the 769's was in the first (pun intended) place. More wasted money.

The GWR 769s were the only option available to allow for planned early withdrawal of 332s on Heathrow Express, that ultimately wasn't necessary. They would have provided extra capacity on various GWR routes, that again is now not necessary.

 

[zwk500]

One wonders what the point of the 769's was in the first (pun intended) place. More wasted money.

The point of them was to provide a cheap way of decarbonising secondary routes with substantive electrification already in place (North downs), or the potential for quick electrification (Reading-Basingstoke).

 

[Benjwri]

The GWR 769s were the only option available to allow for planned early withdrawal of 332s on Heathrow Express, that ultimately wasn't necessary. They would have provided extra capacity on various GWR routes, that again is now not necessary.

Whether they are not needed is debatable, GWR has major issues with the Turbos and isn’t able to provide a reliable service with them.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Whether they are not needed is debatable, GWR has major issues with the Turbos and isn’t able to provide a reliable service with them.

Which is why there is some mitigation in the May 23 timetable change, one of the Bristol to Worcester diagrams which was going to be a turbo has gone over to an IET to provide a standby Turbo at Bristol Temple Meads.

 

[FGW_DID]

Whether they are not needed is debatable, GWR has major issues with the Turbos and isn’t able to provide a reliable service with them.

What specific major issues would they be then?