Doubled up trains at Kings Cross

[Mikey C]

If it usual to have 2 consecutive in service trains waiting on the same platform at Kings Cross? I certainly wasn't expecting it this morning, when I saw a Grand Central train waiting on my platform instead of the expected 700! The 700 of course was in front of it, but what surprised me as well was that the Grand Central train was the next one out of Kings Cross, just 5 minutes afterwards, so not much leeway in case of delays, and slightly confusing from a passengers pov in a station without "A" and "B" sections of the platform.

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes that’s as per plan.

The GC arrives 1014.

An LNER from Boro’ arrives on top of it at 1022, and then departs empty at 1038.

then the GN service from Cambridge arrives 1053, departing for Letchworth at 1122.

then the GC is off to Sunderland 1127.

 

[Darandio]

I'm not sure it has to be confusing just because it was unexpected in this instance. Happens all over.

 

[Mikey C]

I'm not sure it has to be confusing just because it was unexpected in this instance. Happens all over.

It was confusing as I wasn't expecting it, and I don't recall any "take the train at the far end of the platform" type messages.

Also while it's common to have doubled up trains, the one at the back generally isn't in service yet. The doors are locked, so nobody can get on the wrong train.

 

[Class 170101]

Its not preferred at any station is top train working but sometimes it proves to be necessary to make the station work.

 

[BigB]

This used to be quite common at Edinburgh, especially Platform 13, where passengers sometimes got confused with the Rear and Front trains, depending on whether you viewed the front one as the first you came to. Following the rework of the platforms some years ago I believe this happens a lot less now, apart from the through platforms which are split into two.

 

[Magdalia]

Doubling up was common at Kings Cross in the class 317/365 era. The suburban platforms 9-11 were labelled a and b for country end and blocks end respectively, and advertised as such on departure boards.

This example shows the scarcity of platform space at Kings Cross which has to be considered by anyone proposing any changes to the services there.

 

[dk1]

It's a good use of scarce capacity at busy stations and those operators that run mini trains around in singe formation have to expect this.

 

[43055]

If it usual to have 2 consecutive in service trains waiting on the same platform at Kings Cross? I certainly wasn't expecting it this morning, when I saw a Grand Central train waiting on my platform instead of the expected 700! The 700 of course was in front of it, but what surprised me as well was that the Grand Central train was the next one out of Kings Cross, just 5 minutes afterwards, so not much leeway in case of delays, and slightly confusing from a passengers pov in a station without "A" and "B" sections of the platform.


View attachment 131753

Noticed on Sunday a Lumo and LNER Azuma shared platform 0 for the 1209 and 1222 departures. Never really thought it was a thing at Kings Cross. More use to the scrum across the road at St Pancras when the Sheffield and Nottingham services depart from the same platform and announced at the same time. They leave 3 mins apart.

 

[bramling]

Noticed on Sunday a Lumo and LNER Azuma shared platform 0 for the 1209 and 1222 departures. Never really thought it was a thing at Kings Cross. More use to the scrum across the road at St Pancras when the Sheffield and Nottingham services depart from the same platform and announced at the same time. They leave 3 mins apart.

Very common at King’s Cross over the years. It has become less common with GN services compared to 365 days simply because there has been an increase in 8 and 12 car working over the years, and indeed some of the trains are fixed at this length. By contrast on the Intercity side there has tended to be an increase in shorter trains, which since the IETs arrived now includes LNER.

Also worth remembering the recent modelling has resulted in King’s Cross losing a platform.

It’s clear that the planners will avoid platform sharing where possible, however it does happen both on a timetabled and unplanned basis.

 

[Andyh82]

Would they announce the front train as ‘Platform 1B’ or ‘Please board the front X carriages for…’ and would staff be on hand directing people past the rear train?


Particularly at Kings Cross I should add, not in general where I know at some stations this is much more common

 

[bramling]

Would they announce the front train as ‘Platform 1B’ or ‘Please board the front X carriages for…’ and would staff be on hand directing people past the rear train?

Not at King’s Cross. Platforms 9 to 11 used to be divided into A and B, but I’m not even sure they are now. The amount of 4-car working at King’s Cross is now minuscule, though there is still the odd 4/387 service especially on Sunday evenings.

King’s Cross tends to keep the rear train locked if a train is boarding at the front of the platform (though in 365 days staff used to let people on the rear train if obviously waiting). I presume they still do this, though with longer distance services this is less easy especially if the departure times are close together.

 

[D6975]

Its not preferred at any station is top train working but sometimes it proves to be necessary to make the station work.

Except Hull. Here, doubling up is normal practice despite the abundance of platforms.

 

[Deepgreen]

At London Victoria, it's announced as 'the front x coaches', etc. It's not perfect as, in theory, you need to count the front coaches to be sure of your train (if, say, new to rail travel). In reality, it's almost always very obvious owing to the gap between trains.

 

[Spartacus]

Not at King’s Cross. Platforms 9 to 11 used to be divided into A and B, but I’m not even sure they are now. The amount of 4-car working at King’s Cross is now minuscule, though there is still the odd 4/387 service especially on Sunday evenings.

They can be planned as such (F (front) and R (rear)) but I don't know what if any facility there is to show this on the boards.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Normally if there is no A and B designation, stations with ATOS will have Anne indicate that not all carriages on the platform form the service.

"The train at Platform 1, is the 11:22 Great Northern service to Letchworth Garden City. Travel in the front 8 coaches for Finsbury Park, __, __, and Letchworth Garden City."

And the PIS will often say "Front train only."

 

[Royston Vasey]

Is the Grand Central typically open for boarding before the Great Northern has departed? Five minutes is not long for an intercity train, especially one fairly remote to the main concourse.

 

[Mikey C]

Is the Grand Central typically open for boarding before the Great Northern has departed? Five minutes is not long for an intercity train, especially one fairly remote to the main concourse.

I can't remember if the doors of the GC train were open when I walked past.

Being remote to the main concourse wasn't an issue as the platform had been announced, so GC passengers could just wait outside the carriage doors if they were shut.