Luton Airport DART ticketing discussion

[redreni]

Sorry if this has been answered already but, if it has, I haven't been able to find it by searching:

Is an Anytime Return from Luton Airport Parkway to Luton Airport (as shown on, for example, Trainsplit) valid on the DART?

And if so, where do they get off trying to charge people £4.90 single when the cheapest walk-up fare is £3.80 for an open return? That's not a legitimate business model; it's a scam to rip people off that only works if you don't tell them - and hope they don't find out - that a much cheaper fare is available. Unless I'm missing something?

 

[mrmartin]

My understanding is that they are valid, but the fare is likely to increase soon - it seems to be a 'legacy' fare from the bus. There is a new Luton airport dart destination which isn't showing any fares for me; maybe they will end the luton airport fare and only take this one in the near future.

 

[westcoaster]

Sorry if this has been answered already but, if it has, I haven't been able to find it by searching:

Is an Anytime Return from Luton Airport Parkway to Luton Airport (as shown on, for example, Trainsplit) valid on the DART?

And if so, where do they get off trying to charge people £4.90 single when the cheapest walk-up fare is £3.80 for an open return? That's not a legitimate business model; it's a scam to rip people off that only works if you don't tell them - and hope they don't find out - that a much cheaper fare is available. Unless I'm missing something?

The £4.90 is the correct fare for a single on the dart.

The £3.80 is the return fare on the bus.

 

[317 forever]

Although we have to pay £4.90 to use Dart if we just turn up and pay on the day, we can book in advance online for £2.40 each way.

I'm due to stop off in the area in a couple of weeks so shall book online shortly beforehand.

Luton DART

www.lutondart.com

Total to pay: £4.80​

• Luton Airport to Luton Airport Parkway
  Single
  1 Adult
  £2.40
  Travel Date
  Wed 12 Apr 2023
  Remove
• Luton Airport Parkway to Luton Airport
  Single
  1 Adult
  £2.40
  Travel Date
  Wed 12 Apr 2023
  Remove

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[Haywain]

The bus will cease operation at midnight tonight. Previously purchased tickets to Luton Airport will continue to be accepted on the DART, for the time being at least.

 

[redreni]

Ah, I see.

I hope Luton Airport are correct in their belief that this monorail will make the airport a more attractive proposition for most passengers. I must say it puts me off.

They're competing with airports where the train station is either in or right next to the terminal building and I'm supposed to think paying nearly a tenner just to get from the train to the terminal building is an attractive proposition? I don't get that.

I also don't think a reduction in journey time from 10 minutes to 4 minutes is worth paying 250% of the previous fare for.

I understand you can still get bus route A for £1.90 single which is probably what I would do if flying from Luton, though to be honest flying from Luton is something I would generally try to avoid in any case. Especially now.

 

[Haywain]

I hope Luton Airport are correct in their belief that this monorail will make the airport a more attractive proposition for most passengers.

It's not a monorail but it clearly gives a much better experience than the shuttle bus.

though to be honest flying from Luton is something I would generally try to avoid in any case.

In which case the whole thing is rather irrelevant to you, as you're not the target market.

 

[Starmill]

The £4.90 is the correct fare for a single on the dart.

The £3.80 is the return fare on the bus.

The bus fare has been charged for the DART until the bus has been withdrawn.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Mar 2023 ==

I also don't think a reduction in journey time from 10 minutes to 4 minutes is worth paying 250% of the previous fare for.

Neither do I, but I note that you immediately point out that the Arriva service is cheaper than the existing bus service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Mar 2023 ==

Who operates/staffs this desk? Is it EMR, or is it operating as a rail appointed travel agent/similar set up?

I don't think EMR operate any ticket offices in the vicinity apart from Wellingborough and London St Pancras? Assuming London St Pancras is still there?

 

[Haywain]

Assuming London St Pancras is still there?

It certainly is still there. It's a small office with a maximum of 4 desks but usually only 2 staffed.

 

[redreni]

It's not a monorail but it clearly gives a much better experience than the shuttle bus.

In which case the whole thing is rather irrelevant to you, as you're not the target market.

I fly out of London airports, often on budget airlines, fairly regularly and I go out of my way to use public transport rather than drive to the airport.

I fear you're confusing not being part of the target market with thinking Luton Airport's offering is poor.

 

[Haywain]

I fear you're confusing not being part of the target market with thinking Luton Airport's offering is poor.

No. You stated you would "avoid Luton Airport in any case", and I believe the target market is people who are willing to use the airport if it has good connections.

 

[Starmill]

I fly out of London airports, often on budget airlines, fairly regularly and I go out of my way to use public transport rather than drive to the airport.

I fear you're confusing not being part of the target market with thinking Luton Airport's offering is poor.

Surely if it's possible to use rail to and from Luton Airport Parkway in line with your flight times, and the flight from there is at the price you want, you'd just walk to the airport from the station in order to save money, or use the Arriva bus? Obviously it'd be better if the shuttle were priced more sensitively, but Luton Rising aren't that interested in that. It would be better if the shuttle went to the town centre and bus interchange, but it doesn't because they're not interested in that. They're just interested in a long-term strategy to get more people flying and get airlines paying higher real fees to use their airport. The shuttle is central to that. They know people who are outraged at the £5 fare will walk and use their airport anyway, or if they won't that the customer was probably a lost cause. Lots of people out they they can happily rinse for £5 a time.

 

[redreni]

Avoid ≠ generally try to avoid, which is what I said. Sometimes there isn't a choice of airports if you're looking to fly direct to a particular destination for a reasonable fare and I never said I was unwilling to fly from Luton.

More to the point, where there is a meaningful choice I would be willing to fly from Luton if the experience of doing so was as good or better than other London airports. I hope for their sake their target market isn't people who are, for some reason, determined to fly from Luton even when it's less convenient and more expensive than the alternatives.

 

[zero]

In my experience people only tend to look at the headline price of the flight, and only after do they consider how to get to the airport. Heathrow is the most convenient for me, and the majority of the people who I travel overseas with, yet they always end up having to wake up at 0200 to spend a long time getting to Luton or Stansted, and they end up paying similar amounts to me flying from Heathrow. We often discuss this issue but they don't appear to learn their lesson.

I suspect people may feel ripped off when they discover they have to pay almost £5 for the short DART trip, but they will forget about it by the next time they want to book a flight to/from Luton, or they will rationalise it as "I'm spending £500 on the holiday anyway, an extra £10 doesn't matter". Same as when my friends pay full fare for the Heathrow Express and need to change twice to get to Paddington, but they live on the Piccadilly line "I've paid £2000 to fly in Business Class so I'm not going to slum it on the tube"

 

[JaJaWa]

Although we have to pay £4.90 to use Dart if we just turn up and pay on the day, we can book in advance online for £2.40 each way.

I'm due to stop off in the area in a couple of weeks so shall book online shortly beforehand.

Luton DART

www.lutondart.com

That's the pre-opening pricing which is the same as the bus. Interesting you can book tickets at that price for after the bus service has ended.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I hope Luton Airport are correct in their belief that this monorail will make the airport a more attractive proposition for most passengers. I must say it puts me off.

They're competing with airports where the train station is either in or right next to the terminal building and I'm supposed to think paying nearly a tenner just to get from the train to the terminal building is an attractive proposition? I don't get that.

I also don't think a reduction in journey time from 10 minutes to 4 minutes is worth paying 250% of the previous fare for.

I understand you can still get bus route A for £1.90 single which is probably what I would do if flying from Luton, though to be honest flying from Luton is something I would generally try to avoid in any case. Especially now.

I imagine most people will enjoy the convenience and speed of DART whilst grumbling at the price.

 

[redreni]

I imagine most people will enjoy the convenience and speed of DART whilst grumbling at the price.

Probably true; I'm not saying I'm a representative sample of the target market (though I am undoubtedly part of it). Nor am I saying they're going to put off a lot of passengers with the fare hike for the DART (though they might well persuade some who were wavering to drive and park in the long stay rather than take the train).

What is true, however, is that most people enjoy the convenience and speed of the escalators that take them from Stansted or Gatwick airport train stations to the terminal building and have no cause to grumble about the price. And depending which gates / terminal they're departing from, they may well enjoy the speed and convenience of an airport monorail which they're not expected to pay for either.

Looking at the age-old public transport vs car conundrum from the point of view of a family of 4 or 5 flying somewhere on holiday, policy makers have got an incredibly long way to go to make the public transport offering attractive when compared to a full car. Casually chucking on another £30 ((£4.90 x 2 adults) + (£2.45 x 3 children) x 2 ways = £30.70) on top of the already too-high train fares just to get from the train station to the terminal and back isn't going to help. Same goes for the ridiculous tax on single journeys to and from Heathrow on Crossrail. These charges might as well have been designed to encourage use of private cars and taxis.

 

[AlterEgo]

I imagine most people will enjoy the convenience and speed of DART whilst grumbling at the price.

You’re probably right, although a bit part of the puzzle is that a solid actual piece of infrastructure with a defined start and end is ideal for airports.

Physical airport links like monorails, people movers and railways are much more reassuring than buses. Many perceive buses to be unreliable, for a whole list of reasons.

 

[Joe Paxton]

You’re probably right, although a bit part of the puzzle is that a solid actual piece of infrastructure with a defined start and end is ideal for airports.

Physical airport links like monorails, people movers and railways are much more reassuring than buses. Many perceive buses to be unreliable, for a whole list of reasons.

Agreed. Whilst not having experienced them myself, I've read of the various problems people have had with the Luton shuttle bus service - buses getting jammed up in traffic (including at the crack of dawn), associated longer waits for the bus, and significantly overcrowded buses (especially problematic when luggage is in the mix too).

The DART, if it's working properly, will or should avoid these issues.

There is of course a local bus option for those who wish to save a bit of money and can do their research. And there's always Shank's pony! (Luton being an airport which you can actually access on foot.)

 

[Haywain]

Many perceive buses to be unreliable, for a whole list of reasons.

The somewhat scruffy queueing arrangement at the front of Parkway station will certainly have contributed to that!

 

[smjxm09]

Most people buying a ticket to the airport won’t have a clue that £4.90 of that fare is for the final 2 minutes 39 seconds.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Avoid ≠ generally try to avoid, which is what I said. Sometimes there isn't a choice of airports if you're looking to fly direct to a particular destination for a reasonable fare and I never said I was unwilling to fly from Luton.

More to the point, where there is a meaningful choice I would be willing to fly from Luton if the experience of doing so was as good or better than other London airports. I hope for their sake their target market isn't people who are, for some reason, determined to fly from Luton even when it's less convenient and more expensive than the alternatives.

It would be difficult to make a budget airport a better experience than a premium full service one like Heathrow T2 or T5 (though I would say Luton is better than Heathrow was pre T5). But I genuinely don't think it's bad at all, and I have used it a lot.

In the end if you care about £6 (the extra £3 each way) then use Arriva. I always did use Arriva to avoid the grim experience that was the shuttle, but I will pay for the new service as it will be an improved experience. I'd prefer it to be free, but that won't happen for as long as Sleasy, Wizz and Eireflop won't pay landing/takeoff fees of a level that allow the airport to be run properly without the nickel and diming.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Mar 2023 ==

Most people buying a ticket to the airport won’t have a clue that £4.90 of that fare is for the final 2 minutes 39 seconds.

Most people wouldn't even care, or would just moan a bit, if they did.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Mar 2023 ==

The somewhat scruffy queueing arrangement at the front of Parkway station will certainly have contributed to that!

The shuttle bus was an awful experience, with overcrowded, old buses (including, for a bit, that stupid Wright Streetcar thing that just needed scrapping, alongside the muppet that came up with that particular turd polishing idea), severe overcrowding and run by surly staff in hi-vis. That's why I stopped using it in favour of Arriva. And people will know very well I don't think Arriva is a particularly good bus company (understatement) so the shuttle must have been bad for me to favour it!

I would prefer the new service to be cheaper or free, but in the end it will certainly be £3 each way better than the old bus service.

 

[miklcct]

Most people buying a ticket to the airport won’t have a clue that £4.90 of that fare is for the final 2 minutes 39 seconds.

Is the fare always £4.90 more than the same fare to Luton Airport Parkway?

 

[185143]

It would be difficult to make a budget airport a better experience than a premium full service one like Heathrow T2 or T5 (though I would say Luton is better than Heathrow was pre T5). But I genuinely don't think it's bad at all, and I have used it a lot.

In the end if you care about £6 (the extra £3 each way) then use Arriva. I always did use Arriva to avoid the grim experience that was the shuttle, but I will pay for the new service as it will be an improved experience. I'd prefer it to be free, but that won't happen for as long as Sleasy, Wizz and Eireflop won't pay landing/takeoff fees of a level that allow the airport to be run properly without the nickel and diming.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Mar 2023 ==



Most people wouldn't even care, or would just moan a bit, if they did.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Mar 2023 ==



The shuttle bus was an awful experience, with overcrowded, old buses (including, for a bit, that stupid Wright Streetcar thing that just needed scrapping, alongside the muppet that came up with that particular turd polishing idea), severe overcrowding and run by surly staff in hi-vis. That's why I stopped using it in favour of Arriva. And people will know very well I don't think Arriva is a particularly good bus company (understatement) so the shuttle must have been bad for me to favour it!

I would prefer the new service to be cheaper or free, but in the end it will certainly be £3 each way better than the old bus service.

Did you not manage to think of a childish name for Wizz Air then?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Did you not manage to think of a childish name for Wizz Air then?

They thought of their own! No need to think up a stupid name for an airline that already has one.

 

[AlterEgo]

Did you not manage to think of a childish name for Wizz Air then?

It’s literally named after going for a pee!

 

[CyrusWuff]

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but new through fares apply from 00:01 tomorrow, reflecting the DART replacing the shuttle bus. Add-ons are now £4.90 Single and £9.80 Return, per the below screengrab:

 

[mrmartin]

Do we have any idea what the new through fares will cost? Maybe it will be less than £4.90 additional? I can't see anything on BRFares.

At the end of the day the old shuttle bus was terrible. Personally I'd happily pay £3 extra for the new service. Been in some stressful situations running late for a flight, with a huge queue of people for the bus that then gets stuck at the airport side because there isn't enough space for two buses to empty out at once.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Do we have any idea what the new through fares will cost? Maybe it will be less than £4.90 additional? I can't see anything on BRFares.

£4.90 each way. The same as buying through the DART website, or at the DART stations.

Increased fares kicked in at 00:01 today.

 

[MrJeeves]

For avoidance of doubt...



Does the DART actually take Oyster/Contactless as it suggests?

Seems someone has buggered up the GTR smartcard fares to have the wrong child prices, too. (Edit: actually, it'd be all the other fares that are wrong instead going by 1/2 the adult price)

Also not totally sure why they put up a day and period return priced the same rather than just having the period return. I'd also love to see someone try and make use of the five days outbound validity!