Most sensible (least daft) main line restoration

[L+Y]

Just a bit of fun...

If any one of these three lost Beeching-era main lines were to be restored, in full, which would have the best chance of achieving even a modicum of commercial success?

(Yes, I know none of them is remotely realistic in any sense!)

 

[Gloster]

None of them. Extending from Galashiels to St Boswells and Hawick might just be worthwhile. (Sorry, Lutterworth, you‘re not getting back on the railway map.)

 

[70014IronDuke]

Melton Mowbray to Notthingham? (for Norwich - Livpool to avoid using ECML)

Sheffield via the original Midland route to Leeds?

 

[MattRat]

Will any of these benefit London?

 

[HSTEd]

In hindsight bits of the GCML would have been somewhat useful, for example I still maintain that Nottingham Victoria is a far superior location for a railway station than the existing Nottingham (Midland) station.

Using that station rather than the Midland one would have required retention of some portion of the GCML associated system, and required a handful of chords to be added, other bits of the MML system would have closed in exchange.

Probably would have today's Midland Main Line run through Notitngham instead of Derby, which is probably reduced to using the Friargate station.

I added other because its not really the London extension as such.

 

[Class142sbad]

The Waverley Line should be reopened. It will benefit the Towns and Vlliages along the route and allow for new connections. Also can function as a diversion route when needed.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Will any of these benefit London?

Quite! Sometimes seems that if it doesn't, it won't ever happen.

 

[swt_passenger]

The Waverley Line should be reopened. It will benefit the Towns and Vlliages along the route and allow for new connections. Also can function as a diversion route when needed.

They don’t usually decide to reopen any route on its possible diversionary use. It has to stand on its own.

 

[simonw]

None. There isn't the traffic to support any of them and in some cases there wasn't the traffic when they were built.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Okehampton-Bere Alston. The pros and cons of this have been done to death on the forum over the years. I’m very much in favour although I expect most of it will probably be single.
As for restoring a mainline then Wilton to Pinhoe re-doubling throughout.

 

[WAO]

The L&Y (main) line, from Liverpool to Manchester is (of course) top of my list for re-instatement, rather than the others listed. Its piecemeal, ongoing electrification proves the point. I'll forgo the Wigan cut-off.

WAO

 

[YorksLad12]

Sheffield via the original Midland route to Leeds?

There are plans / aspirations / professional crayons to reopen part of the route to passengers as it is/was being used for freight as far as the glass works (roughly where Monk Bretton Station was). Cudworth would be the larger market though, but running htrough to Wath and Swinton would be difficult; the idea is to run through to Barnsley somehow (you'd have to make a new connection at Stairfoot to reach Interchange, I think); and the northern end would be better connected via the former round to Sandal and Agbrigg, then on to Westgate and Leeds rather than Normanton.

 

[Ken H]

(Leeds) - Harrogate - Ripon. An alternative to the trans pennine route via York and to give Harrogate a way out to the North East. Give Ripon a station. Its an expanding town with expanding satelite villages.

 

[Bald Rick]

The Waverley Line should be reopened. It will benefit the Towns and Vlliages along the route and allow for new connections. Also can function as a diversion route when needed.

Which towns would those be?

 

[Ken H]

Which towns would those be?

Newcastleton...

 

[Nottingham59]

If any one of these three lost Beeching-era main lines were to be restored, in full, which would have the best chance of achieving even a modicum of commercial success?

If a new railway between two cities is ever going to run with income exceeding operating costs, then there needs to be enough traffic between those places already to fill a six-lane motorway. And you really need a four-track railway so that fast trains don't get held up by any stoppers.

So my vote is for the Micklefield Loop, from Stalybridge to Standedge. If that alignment were still available it would provide the capacity, if not the speed, needed by NPR.

And re-quad the line from Piccadilly to Guide Bridge.

You'd still have to quad the line from Dewsbury to Leeds though, to make it all work.

 

[MattRat]

Quite! Sometimes seems that if it doesn't, it won't ever happen.

I agree, but that didn't really answer my question.

 

[70014IronDuke]

In hindsight bits of the GCML would have been somewhat useful, for example I still maintain that Nottingham Victoria is a far superior location for a railway station than the existing Nottingham (Midland) station.

Many would agree it was a 'better' location - but "far superior" makes it sound like the difference between Rotherham Masboro and Central.

Using that station rather than the Midland one would have required retention of some portion of the GCML associated system, and required a handful of chords to be added, other bits of the MML system would have closed in exchange.

Probably would have today's Midland Main Line run through Notitngham instead of Derby, which is probably reduced to using the Friargate station.

So, you close Trent to Derby Midland and close Derby Midland itself, and serve Derby with the GN route into Friagate? I'm not sure how suitable for high-speed that was, but we'll give it a go.

You do have the little problem of what to do with York/Leeds - Sheffield - Birmingham - Bristol/S Wales - South West traffic though. Closing Derby Midland kind of makes that route - which I think most would agree had and has more traffic than that of your average rural branch line - a little difficult to function, don't you think?

 

[Bartsimho]

Okehampton-Bere Alston. The pros and cons of this have been done to death on the forum over the years. I’m very much in favour although I expect most of it will probably be single.
As for restoring a mainline then Wilton to Pinhoe re-doubling throughout.

I'd probably like to see them use the old Okehampton to Bere Alston alignment to Tavistock but then switch to the other side of the valley for the old Tavistock South to Plym Bridge and add a Westbound chord.

I would think serving Plymouth and being able to continue down the Cornish Mainline rather than having to reverse at Plymouth.

Probably allows for easier pathing and if you want to go from Okehampton or Tavistock westward you probably want to hit Plymouth.

Edit: Cross Tracks south of Burnford where the tracks crossed anyways.

 

[berwicksfinest]

Not that its viable, March to Spalding

 

[Falcon1200]

None of them. Extending from Galashiels to St Boswells and Hawick might just be worthwhile.

Agree; I cast my vote for the Waverley route but it was actually only half a vote, as re-opening south of Hawick simply cannot be justified, or afforded.

The Waverley Line should be reopened. It will benefit the Towns and Vlliages along the route and allow for new connections. Also can function as a diversion route when needed.

For a rebuilt Waverley Line to be of any use as a diversionary route, it would have to be 1) electrified, 2) double track throughout, including rebuilding the single line sections on the current railway, and 3) have sufficient long distance freight and passenger services booked via the route to maintain route knowledge.

 

[Philip]

Woodhead has a lot going for it - line largely still in tact, some of it still in use, and would provide a faster journey between Manchester and Sheffield, along with increased capacity and the easing of congestion on the Hope Valley route.

The tunnel itself looks to be in good condition and could take trains - the electric cables don't go through the large modern bore, but rather one of the original bores.

 

[Topological]

I also voted other with a view to the Woodhead.

However, to me it offers the chance for a reasonably timed journey between Manchester and Sheffield which can operate semi-fast and give better service to places like Hadfield and Penistone so that they become much more integrated into the system rather than a fast train speeding past. I did not give much thought to stops but potentially Guide Bridge, Hadfield, Penistone, Deepcar, Sheffield Suburb* (Leave that the Sheffield Experts) and then some link into Sheffield itself. If that can be done with a 1 hour journey time with trains every 30 minutes it would be quite a game changer for East Manchester and regional development along the corridoe.

* This is speculative so I do not know if it can be pathed with the stoppers on Hadfield/Glossop etc.

 

[The Planner]

Woodhead has a lot going for it - line largely still in tact, some of it still in use, and would provide a faster journey between Manchester and Sheffield, along with increased capacity and the easing congestion on the Hope Valley route.

The tunnel itself looks to be in good condition and could take trains - the electric cables don't go through the large modern bore, but rather one of the original bores.

I thought the cables were moved in the last 10 years into the newer bore? Woodhead isn't going to reopen anytime soon.

 

[StoneRoad]

Waverley was my vote, but I know that has at least one structural problem - a collapsing tunnel.

However, my second choice would be the Swift & Delightful ...

 

[Philip]

I thought the cables were moved in the last 10 years into the newer bore? Woodhead isn't going to reopen anytime soon.

I had a look at the western end about 20 years ago so this would have been before wires were moved from the older tunnel.

It's unlikely that any of the above are going to happen soon, but the theme is about the most sensible reopening, I'd say Woodhead is up there. Also as mentioned above it would provide a better service and new connections (either direct or with a change) for places like Penistone, Stocksbridge and Barnsley.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Waverley Route would have good political support but I am sure Scotland will spend its money on electrification .

 

[zwk500]

I had a look at the western end about 20 years ago so this would have been before wires were moved from the older tunnel.

It's unlikely that any of the above are going to happen soon, but the theme is about the most sensible reopening, I'd say Woodhead is up there. Also as mentioned above it would provide a better service and new connections (either direct or with a change) for places like Penistone, Stocksbridge and Barnsley.

1. The Cables are now in the double track bore, 2. There's very little room for additional trains into Manchester from Guide Bridge. 3. The route into Sheffield was hardly a 'main line', 4. You either have to reopen Stocksbridge-Pensitone and refurb the line into Victoria or squeeze the life out of the Barnsley route for a path into Midland. For a fraction of the cost you could do a hell of a lot of improvement to the Hope Valley and southern Sheffield approach.

Of course, a big part of the OP's question is what counts as a 'main line', because the definition of the S&D or Waverley routes as 'mainlines' would be quite questionable to some. The GC London end has been replaced in strategic purpose by HS2. EWR is as main a line as the S&D was and is already opening. However the big question is whether or not there are any trunk routes really missing form the UK's rail network. I struggle to think of 2 major population centres that have no reasonable rail route between them, even Derby to Manchester (that old chestnut) is not unreasonable via Sheffield, and nobody would be campaigning for a brand new line today via high peak if the Bakewell route had never been built.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Since 'other' is an option in the poll, that surely has to be the vote of choice, since that covers any of dozens of lines that probably stand more chance of commercial success than the specific ones listed in the poll

Off the top of my head, lines closed in the Beeching cuts that do not currently have any re-opening plans and which may stand some chance of commercial success if re-opened could include:

• Hadfield - Stocksbridge - Sheffield Victoria (if extended to provide a tram /rail connection at Nunnery Square)
• York - Hull
• Stratford-on-Avon - Broadway - Cheltenham

Of the ones listed in the poll, I'd have thought the Great Central London extension stands the most chance of success because it does link several significantly sized towns (Aylesbury - Rugby - Leicester, and also would provide Milton Keynes - Rugby - Leicester - Nottingham connections).

(In all this, I'm thinking about the chances of the routes once opened - I'm ignoring the difficulties and cost of reopening them in the first place).

 

[The Planner]

.

Since 'other' is an option in the poll, that surely has to be the vote of choice, since that covers any of dozens of lines that probably stand more chance of commercial success than the specific ones listed in the poll

Off the top of my head, lines closed in the Beeching cuts that do not currently have any re-opening plans and which may stand some chance of commercial success if re-opened could include:

• Hadfield - Stocksbridge - Sheffield Victoria (if extended to provide a tram /rail connection at Nunnery Square)
• York - Hull
• Stratford-on-Avon - Broadway - Cheltenham

Of the ones listed in the poll, I'd have thought the Great Central London extension stands the most chance of success because it does link several significantly sized towns (Aylesbury - Rugby - Leicester, and also would provide Milton Keynes - Rugby - Leicester - Nottingham connections).

(In all this, I'm thinking about the chances of the routes once opened - I'm ignoring the difficulties and cost of reopening them in the first place).

Stratford to Honeybourne didnt even make the restoring your railway cut