E Tickets not available for a journey where they previously were

[Andrew99]

I regularly travel from Runcorn to Reading via Banbury, splitting my ticket at Banbury. For at least the last two years, I have been able to buy E Tickets for this journey, but sometime in the last few weeks the Banbury to Reading tickets stopped being available as E Tickets and can only be booked as paper tickets. Runcorn to Banbury is still available as an E Ticket, but the through Runcorn to Reading via Banbury ticket is also now paper only.
Does anyone know the reason for this change, or is it just a glitch?

 

[Wallsendmag]

I regularly travel from Runcorn to Reading via Banbury, splitting my ticket at Banbury. For at least the last two years, I have been able to buy E Tickets for this journey, but sometime in the last few weeks the Banbury to Reading tickets stopped being available as E Tickets and can only be booked as paper tickets. Runcorn to Banbury is still available as an E Ticket, but the through Runcorn to Reading via Banbury ticket is also now paper only.
Does anyone know the reason for this change, or is it just a glitch?

I've noticed this, RCS the system that controls fulfilment options has just been updated and I've reinstated 700k+ eTicket records this week.

 

[Andrew99]

Many thanks - sounds like you are on the case. It was an unpleasant surprise to have to go back to the ritual of collecting a stack of barely legible orange cardboard from a ticket machine

 

[Wallsendmag]

Many thanks - sounds like you are on the case. It was an unpleasant surprise to have to go back to the ritual of collecting a stack of barely legible orange cardboard from a ticket machine

Problem is I only have access to LNER owned flows I'm not sure if other TOCs have noticed. I have flagged it with the servicedesk.

 

[Adam Williams]

I've noticed this, RCS the system that controls fulfilment options has just been updated and I've reinstated 700k+ eTicket records this week.

What.

How on earth did this happen... ?!

I have flagged it with the servicedesk.

Do you have a PMS ticket no.? No retailers have been informed about this, to the best of my knowledge

 

[Dai Corner]

Do retailers have to pay the TVM operators when they issue paper tickets? That could be quite a large cost for a small independent retailer.

 

[Haywain]

There seem to be fundamental problems with RCS data. There seem to have been a number of occasions when it has wiped eTicket fulfilment from a selection of flows or tickets, and probably requires eagle eyed monitoring by Retail Systems people to keep abreast of it - if they've got time. Coupled with the way some TOCs lack consistency in which ticket types or flows are set for eTicket fulfilment it makes the whole thing a mess.

Do retailers have to pay the TVM operators when they issue paper tickets? That could be quite a large cost for a small independent retailer.

Yes, they do.

 

[Wallsendmag]

What.

How on earth did this happen... ?!


Do you have a PMS ticket no.? No retailers have been informed about this, to the best of my knowledge

I do, although nobody else has seen this problem .

 

[Andrew99]

Problem is I only have access to LNER owned flows I'm not sure if other TOCs have noticed. I have flagged it with the servicedesk.

Thanks again. I think Banbury - Reading is owned by GWR, so I might try contacting them if this problem lingers on.

(As it happens, I usually buy my tickets from LNER, so I'm afraid you got hit with the unnecessary TVM cost!)

 

[Watershed]

Do retailers have to pay the TVM operators when they issue paper tickets? That could be quite a large cost for a small independent retailer.

Yes, they do. Therefore this issue will not only be inconveniencing customers but will also be costing retailers money. It'll be a significant cost on a low-value booking, but not as bad for a higher value booking.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Yes, they do. Therefore this issue will not only be inconveniencing customers but will also be costing retailers money. It'll be a significant cost on a low-value booking, but not as bad for a higher value booking.

It's possibly also worth pointing out that collecting a ToD from a TVM is cheaper than collecting one from a Ticket Office. I believe it's somewhere around 45p at a TVM, and 90p at a Ticket Office.

 

[reb0118]

Certain short ScotRail flows are no longer available for E & M-ticket fulfillment as a fraud prevention method. There's been a few hundred already captured at the barriers with ToD references for short fares that they have purchased on approach to the gatelines.

 

[Adam Williams]

Certain short ScotRail flows are no longer available for E & M-ticket fulfillment as a fraud prevention method. There's been a few hundred already captured at the barriers with ToD references for short fares that they have purchased on approach to the gatelines.

In a sane world, the station gatelines would have barcode readers and this would be achieved simply by programming the barriers properly to require manual re-checking of passengers travelling on these short fares at exit time (or based on the time that has elapsed since purchase) - not by messing up the data in RCS and costing retailers more money.

 

[reb0118]

Agreed.

 

[Watershed]

Certain short ScotRail flows are no longer available for E & M-ticket fulfillment as a fraud prevention method. There's been a few hundred already captured at the barriers with ToD references for short fares that they have purchased on approach to the gatelines.

You've got to sigh when TOCs' default answer to preventing the misuse of tickets is inconveniencing the 99% of law abiding passengers...

 

[Wallsendmag]

In a sane world, the station gatelines would have barcode readers and this would be achieved simply by programming the barriers properly to require manual re-checking of passengers travelling on these short fares at exit time (or based on the time that has elapsed since purchase) - not by messing up the data in RCS and costing retailers more money.

The whole thing is madness you can easily buy a CCST and do the same thing.

 

[Kite159]

The whole thing is madness you can easily buy a CCST and do the same thing.

Unless there is a way to get gatelines to reject tickets from the closest stations for future investigation and questioning if the ticket from Five Ways to Birmingham New Street (for example) was printed at Bromsgrove etc

 

[Wallsendmag]

Unless there is a way to get gatelines to reject tickets from the closest stations for future investigation and questioning if the ticket from Five Ways to Birmingham New Street (for example) was printed at Bromsgrove etc

Absolutely no chance of that with a CCST

 

[reb0118]

The whole thing is madness you can easily buy a CCST and do the same thing.

True. However, a lot of passengers who buy an e.g. Haymarket [HYM] to Edinburgh ticket only do so when they ascertain that they are not going to be checked on train (otherwise it's a potential additional expense). As they are already on the train and are unable to fulfil this request to an m-ticket the fact that they have to go to the excess office to obtain the ticket exposes their actions to further scrutiny. You would be amazed that many of these passengers can not see beyond HYM or the actual station they boarded at - i.e. after being caught out that it was impossible for them to board at HYM most then select the real station that they boarded at.

 

[Haywain]

You would be amazed that many of these passengers can not see beyond HYM or the actual station they boarded at - i.e. after being caught out that it was impossible for them to board at HYM most then select the real station that they boarded at.

How is it impossible for them to have boarded at Haymarket? I thought all trains stopped there?

 

[Kite159]

How is it impossible for them to have boarded at Haymarket? I thought all trains stopped there?

Haymarket has barriers, so unless they are left open someone arriving at Edinburgh to claim to have boarded at Haymarket will be looked on as slightly dodgy

 

[miklcct]

It's possibly also worth pointing out that collecting a ToD from a TVM is cheaper than collecting one from a Ticket Office. I believe it's somewhere around 45p at a TVM, and 90p at a Ticket Office.

Wow that's expensive. How can independent retailers survive in this case without charging extra for paper tickets?

I frequently buy low-value (less than £6) tickets from London Overground / Thameslink stations to stations within or just beyond zone 1-6 and these can only be issued on paper.

If I really want to buy these tickets, is it better off for Trainsplit if I buy it from a TOC? In other words, is Trainsplit making a loss for every such ticket sold?

 

[Adam Williams]

If I really want to buy these tickets, is it better off for Trainsplit if I buy it from a TOC? In other words, is Trainsplit making a loss for every such ticket sold?

£6 ticket = £0.30 commission at 5%

Payment processing fees: TrainSplit use Braintree - let's use the publicly posted fees (though I believe Raileasy has negotiated something slightly better):

> 1.9% + £0.20

= £0.114 + £0.2 = £0.31 in card processing fees

> For CTR values of less than £15, a fixed minimum fee of 7.5p per CTR shall be due.

= total fees of £0.385, making the purchase a complete loss.

Then you have fees to various suppliers for e.g. Cloud Compute, fulfilment, journey planning etc which aren't even considered here.

 

[miklcct]

£6 ticket = £0.30 commission at 5%

Payment processing fees: TrainSplit use Braintree - let's use the publicly posted fees (though I believe Raileasy has negotiated something slightly better):

> 1.9% + £0.20

= £0.114 + £0.2 = £0.31 in card processing fees

> For CTR values of less than £15, a fixed minimum fee of 7.5p per CTR shall be due.

= total fees of £0.385, making the purchase a complete loss.

Then you have fees to various suppliers for e.g. Cloud Compute, fulfilment, journey planning etc which aren't even considered here.

Thanks for the reply. I'll continue to buy tickets from GTR if I'm forced to use paper tickets.

 

[vinnym70]

The fact we allow payment processors to charge fees greater than the transaction value never ceases to amaze me.
It's the same principe the leads to corner shops accepting cards only for transactions greater than £x.

Essentially, any benefit businesses may have perceived in not having to ferry amounts of cash to/from banks is more than outweighed by smaller payment companies making profits for doing very little.