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The effectiveness of the current UK driving test

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MattA7

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The modern UK driving test is generally harder than it was years ago and has a lot more parts to it such as show me, tell me, independent driving, hazard participation etc

However does this actually work have we noticed a reduction in accidents among new drivers or in comparison to other countries with less stringent tests? Some people argue that new drivers are learning how to pass a driving test as opposed to how to drive.

Also Do you think a course based system would be more effective as done in some other countries?
 
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ChewChewTrain

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I’m not convinced they’re doing enough to stop people taking tests on behalf of others. That should be sorted out before looking at the content of the test.
 

Merle Haggard

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One thing that puzzled me is that you don't have to be able to read or speak English to pass the current driving test and thereby gain a licence.

Apart from the unfortunate side-effect of the possibility of the translator, not the examinee, giving the correct answer - there have been some court cases - safety information is not always conveyed by pictograms.

For instance, very common (in my experience) Motorway matrix displays are 'Caution - Workforce in road' and 'Caution - Debris in Road', and on one occasion 'Caution - oncoming vehicle" (followed by blazing headlights...). None of these would be understood by someone who couldn't read English.
 

Bletchleyite

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One thing I think we should have is an open book highway code theory test each time the licence is renewed, to ensure people are up to date on changes.

As for speaking English, the logical extension of that is to ban foreign drivers (and ban British people driving in France). The theory test above could include basics, you need maybe 20 words at most, I know a lot of them in Welsh and I don't otherwise speak it. Dim parcio!
 

Ken H

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More worrying is people who have a foreign licence from certain countries can exchange it for a UK one. Road conditions abroad may be nothing like the UK so they may not have the skills needed for UK roads. Maybe they shoukd take a UK test?
 

AM9

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More worrying is people who have a foreign licence from certain countries can exchange it for a UK one. Road conditions abroad may be nothing like the UK so they may not have the skills needed for UK roads. Maybe they shoukd take a UK test?
Probably no worse that a driver holding a UK licence tripping over to France etc. without specific training on driving in France.
 

Ken H

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Probably no worse that a driver holding a UK licence tripping over to France etc. without specific training on driving in France.
Yep. Moments inattention and you are driving on the left. I saw a UK driver go round a roundabout the wrong way in dover. Must have been driving in Europe for a while.
But I Was thinking of drivers from countries without busy motorways etc.
 

MattA7

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Probably no worse that a driver holding a UK licence tripping over to France etc. without specific training on driving in France.

Or the fact most full UK license holders probably wouldn’t pass a UK test if they sat one tomorrow (at least not without some lessons from a instructor first)

I have also noticed a lot of older drivers seem to have a medium goods vehicle (C1) and minibus (D1) license even though they only sat a car test.
 

Bletchleyite

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Or the fact most full UK license holders probably wouldn’t pass a UK test if they sat one tomorrow (at least not without some lessons from a instructor first)

I have also noticed a lot of older drivers seem to have a medium goods vehicle (C1) and minibus (D1) license even though they only sat a car test.

That used to be the default. We've also all gained B+E as a "Brexit dividend" (unless I think medically disqualified). TBH driving a minibus or large van isn't much different to driving a large estate car, and easier in some ways due to the excellent visibility you get from being sat high up and having huge mirrors. Though the small lorries you can just about get away with on C1 are perhaps a bit too big.

Actually talking about medical disqualification, I am not sure I understand why different vehicles have different standards (pushbikes possibly aside) as even the smallest car can cause a major accident if the driver blacks out.
 

Merle Haggard

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I have also noticed a lot of older drivers seem to have a medium goods vehicle (C1) and minibus (D1) license even though they only sat a car test.
Passing the test in the past (before about 1995???) allowed you to drive, as well as a minibus, a lorry upon to 7 tons (later 7.5 tonnes) gross and interestingly this created a market for a particular design of box van, separate body on a lorry chassis - they Ford D Type was favourite but there was a Commer/Dodge one - and van rental companies offered them. They were ideal for do-it-yourself house moves. There were also job opportunities for 'light haulage drivers' as a result of the low entry bar (and of course, low wages).

There seemed to be some change in legislation which became 3.5 tonnes, I think, on a car licence. Over time, the box van on lorry chassis seems to have disappeared totally, and replaced by the 'panel van' - e.g. Mercedes 'Sprinter'.

Anecdotally, I have frequently seen 'Sprinters' driven at or above national speed limits (presumably by drivers only holding a car licence) - a feat beyond a Ford D type, so I'm not sure that road safety has necessarily resulted from the change.

As an aside, on reaching 70 one requires a medical to drive the goods and minibus categories, so I didn't bother. My licence came back without them shown, of course, but added a pictogram of a Motor Cycle.

Edited for clarification.
 

stuu

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Passing the test in the past (before about 1995???) allowed you to drive, as well as a minibus, a lorry upon to 7 tons (later 7.5 tonnes) gross and interestingly this created a market for a particular design of box van, separate body on a lorry chassis - they Ford D Type was favourite but there was a Commer/Dodge one - and van rental companies offered them. They were ideal for do-it-yourself house moves. There were also job opportunities for 'light haulage drivers' as a result of the low entry bar (and of course, low wages).
Very true. I passed my test in a Vauxhall Nova and a couple of years later I drove a 28ft long 7.5t truck with absolutely no training, as a temp job during university holidays. Pretty nuts really
 

Merle Haggard

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Very true. I passed my test in a Vauxhall Nova and a couple of years later I drove a 28ft long 7.5t truck with absolutely no training, as a temp job during university holidays. Pretty nuts really
Remember that, until about 1968, the only driving test was in a car, and you could then drive pretty much everything apart from a P.S.V.. When the H.G.V. 1 - 4 licences came in, if you already had a licence and could demonstrate that you had been driving lorries during the previous six months, you were issued with an appropriate H.G.V. licence. The H.G.V. regs started at 7 tons, so not so much of an anomaly to start with.

Incidentally, and with.a railway connection, it was H.G.V. licencing that killed off the Scammel Scarab antics then widely used. They required an H.G.V. 4 licence; training was about the same as the other H.G.V. classes but it was obviously more productive and therefore better paid to drive H.G.V. 3s up, so, once the grandfather rights drivers left, there was no-one to drive them.
 

Ken X

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One of my companies offerings were that all company car drivers could go out for an advanced drivers lesson every few years. We all found it very worthwhile to brush up on a few techniques and sort out developing bad habits. It also showed us how new drivers are taught and some things were very different to when I passed my test. Block gear changing was new for example.
My dad's claim to fame was never having passed a driving test. He was born in 1925 and when the war started he was a mechanic so got given a driving licence and told to use it.:D
 

MattA7

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Remember that, until about 1968, the only driving test was in a car, and you could then drive pretty much everything apart from a P.S.V.. When the H.G.V. 1 - 4 licences came in, if you already had a licence and could demonstrate that you had been driving lorries during the previous six months, you were issued with an appropriate H.G.V. licence. The H.G.V. regs started at 7 tons, so not so much of an anomaly to start with.

Incidentally, and with.a railway connection, it was H.G.V. licencing that killed off the Scammel Scarab antics then widely used. They required an H.G.V. 4 licence; training was about the same as the other H.G.V. classes but it was obviously more productive and therefore better paid to drive H.G.V. 3s up, so, once the grandfather rights drivers left, there was no-one to drive them.

Can you remember what the old HGV classes we I only ever heard of class one (now CE) and two (now C)
 

greyman42

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One thing I think we should have is an open book highway code theory test each time the licence is renewed, to ensure people are up to date on changes.
The cost would probably ruler it out and it would also be a vote looser for whichever government threatened to introduce it.
 

Merle Haggard

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Can you remember what the old HGV classes we I only ever heard of class one (now CE) and two (now C)
I am fairly certain that 1 was full size artics, 3 rigids and 4 (later dropped) small artics. It might originally have been 2 - 6 & 8 wheel rigids, 3 - 4 wheel. I know someone who knows for sure, I'll email him
 

Hadders

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I passed my driving test in 1988 and still have a paper driving license. No theory teat back then.

As I understand it I am allowed to drive:

Vehicles up to 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) carrying no more than 8 passengers and driver with trailer up to 750kg; trailer over 750kg if combined vehicle and trailer weight isn’t more than 3,500kg MAM
Vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg carrying no more than 8 passengers and a driver with trailer up to 750kg
Vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg carrying no more than 8 passengers and a driver with trailer over 750kg if combined vehicle and trailer weight isn’t more than 8,250 Vehicles with up to 16 passenger seats and a driver with trailer up to 750kg
Any motor trike less than 410kg (500kg laden)
Moped up to 50cc (max speed 50km/h)
Agricultural tractor
Mowing machine or pedestrian-controlled vehicle
Electrically-propelled vehicle
Vehicles (exempt from duty) under section 7 (1) of the vehicle (excise) Act 1971
 
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Merle Haggard

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Can you remember what the old HGV classes we I only ever heard of class one (now CE) and two (now C)
I've now had clarification of the original H.G.V. classes, from my mate who's still a little bit irritated by unfairly losing out on the grandfather rights.

H.G.V. 1 - Artic; H.G.V. 2 - Rigid 8 or 6 wheel; H.G.V. 3 - Rigid 4 wheel; H.G.V. 4 -Any of the previous classes but with automatic gearbox.

This means that I was in error with regard to my comments about Scammell Scarabs; the problem was that they required an H.G.V. 1 to drive. Anyone with a Class 1 would be able to find the highest-paid of driving jobs meaning that the market rate of pay for a railway artic van driver was too high to be economic.
 

MattA7

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I've now had clarification of the original H.G.V. classes, from my mate who's still a little bit irritated by unfairly losing out on the grandfather rights.

H.G.V. 1 - Artic; H.G.V. 2 - Rigid 8 or 6 wheel; H.G.V. 3 - Rigid 4 wheel; H.G.V. 4 -Any of the previous classes but with automatic gearbox.

This means that I was in error with regard to my comments about Scammell Scarabs; the problem was that they required an H.G.V. 1 to drive. Anyone with a Class 1 would be able to find the highest-paid of driving jobs meaning that the market rate of pay for a railway artic van driver was too high to be economic.


Thanks, I was interested to find out about the older categories and how they compare today. Surprised at HGV4 automatic transmission given the vast majority of HGVs are manual transmission (especially years ago)
 

Merle Haggard

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Thanks, I was interested to find out about the older categories and how they compare today. Surprised at HGV4 automatic transmission given the vast majority of HGVs are manual transmission (especially years ago)
On the P.S.V. classes 'Automatic' included pre-select and what's known as semi automatic (gear selection by driver but no manual clutch), poresumably the same for H.G.V.s. But even so I don't know of any semi-auto lorries in the 1960s - even for a bus, fluid flywheel technology seemed to be at its limit for a heavyweight d.d..
 

Joe Paxton

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I passed my driving test in 1998 and still have a paper driving license. No theory test back then.

The theory test was introduced on 1 July 1996 (source).

It was very easy in the early years, so perhaps you don't remember doing it!
 

Hadders

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Sorry
The theory test was introduced on 1 July 1996 (source).

It was very easy in the early years, so perhaps you don't remember doing it!
I passed in 1988, a typo on my part Original post updated.
 

Snow1964

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I have also noticed a lot of older drivers seem to have a medium goods vehicle (C1) and minibus (D1) license even though they only sat a car test.
I am 58 (so not old), only ever did a car test,

but do seem to have C1, D1, and A with 79(3)restriction (trikes), AM (Mopeds), B1 (quad bikes), BE (vehicle with trailer), C1E (C1 vehicle + trailer upto 12,000kg combined) with restriction 107 (max 8250kg), D1E (minibuses upto 16 seats, max 8m + trailer max 12,000kg) with restriction 119 (no additional weight restriction) plus categories f (agricultural tractor), k, l, n, p, q

Not that I know where I can get huge minibus and trailer from, but if I did, seems I can drive it on basis of my car test 41 years ago.
 

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Railway-Owned Commercial Vehicles (Stevens-Stratton and Aldridge, Ian Allan, 1987) says that it was forthcoming changes to the Construction & Use Regulations that did for the Scarab and Townsman, its successor. They ‘appeared to rule out the continuing use of non-braked single-steering road wheels’.

Going back to the original post, I think that there is a major problem in the number of people driving who have never passed a test or, often, even taken one. Additionally, I wonder if the whole system has caught up with the way that new drivers can jump straight into cars with ridiculous top speeds and acceleration. Long ago, most beginners would have an old banger that had a top speed of 60, but only down hill after several minutes of acceleration.
 

ABB125

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Additionally, I wonder if the whole system has caught up with the way that new drivers can jump straight into cars with ridiculous top speeds and acceleration. Long ago, most beginners would have an old banger that had a top speed of 60, but only down hill after several minutes of acceleration.
Insurance costs are a rather large obstacle in the way of this activity...
 

MotCO

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An article in today's Telegraph https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/advice/traditional-manual-handbrake-motoring-extinction-list/ referred to the rise of elelectronic handbrakes, such that a survey by car sales website CarGurus UK found that only 13 per cent of new models currently on sale have the ratcheted lever that has for so long been a driving staple. It also made the point that today's learners don't have to know how to do a hill-start by finding the 'biting point' because the car they learn on, and pass their test on, does not have a ratchet hand brake. How would this work if such a learner had to do a hill start in an older car with a ratchet handbrake?

Along with the automatic gearbox, the traditional manual handbrake is on the motoring extinction red list. A survey by car sales website CarGurus UK found that only 13 per cent of new models currently on sale have the ratcheted lever that has for so long been a driving staple.
In the vast majority of new cars, it has been replaced by the electronic parking brake which has increased from a 63 to 87 per cent spread in just five years. In 2022, the ranges of nearly half (45 per cent) of the UK’s 38 car makers don’t feature a manual handbrake at all.
From your correspondence and requests for advice, we know that electronic parking brakes are a particular bugbear. But why are they taking over?

What’s the difference between electronic and manual handbrakes?​

Handbrakes and parking brakes are the same thing. The idea behind both is to prevent a car from moving when it’s stationary.
A manual handbrake is the traditional lever. When you pull it up, a cable running to the rear wheels operates a cylinder which pushes the brake pads against the discs or drum. Lower the lever and the cylinder releases the pads.

With an electronic parking brake, you pull a switch, usually mounted on the transmission tunnel. This electronically activates motors which push the pads against the discs. This is the whirring sound you hear when you apply a parking brake.

Why is the manual handbrake being replaced?​

The electronic parking brake has a couple of big advantages over its manual equivalent. You no longer need a bulky lever in the cockpit which frees up space for other sexier features.
There are also technical and safety benefits. An electronic parking brake can be linked to the car’s central computer. It can detect when the car is about to be driven through inputs to the accelerator and automatically release the brake. Similarly, it can automatically release the brake on an incline for a perfect hill start – more on that later.
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The energy transition to electric is also responsible. Cars, combustion engine and electric, are increasingly started with a button rather than twisting a key. An electronic parking brake can be linked to this so when you shut the car down, the brake automatically engages.
“Overall, the packaging and usability benefits of an electronic parking brake outweigh the financial savings of a manual handbrake,” said Robin Hayles from Hyundai which has the most models still available with a manual parking brake.

What about reliability?​

A lot is made of electronic parking brakes being less reliable. Some manufacturers have had problems with them, mainly addressed through recalls. But there’s a danger of us getting a bit dewy eyed about the traditional handbrake.
Product expert Hayles told us: “I think we’re forgetting the failed MOTs because of locked wheel cylinders or stretched cables from traditional handbrakes. Compared with that the chances of an electric parking brake motor seizing up are pretty remote.”

When electronic parking brakes do go wrong…​

They cost a lot more to fix. According to warranty firm MotorEasy, the average manual handbrake repair claim is £220.37, the average electronic parking brake claim is three times that at £665.98.
The highest electronic parking brake claim was an eye-watering £2,888.70 for a Range Rover Sport. Interestingly, while only 18 per cent of manual handbrake repair claims have cost more than £1,000, 27 per cent of electronic brakes’ have.

Does this make the hill start a thing of the past?​

The electronic parking brake gives more cars a hill-hold function which automatically detects an incline and stops the car rolling back for a few seconds. This gives the driver time to move their foot from brake to accelerator for a seamless getaway.
The knock-on effect is that the traditional hill start – holding the car on the handbrake, finding the biting point of the clutch and releasing the handbrake at that perfect moment – is becoming a thing of the past.



Instructor and examiner Karen Bransgrove from the Driving Instructors’ Association said: “I think whether the traditional hill start stays in the driving test will be driven by the market. It will probably phase out naturally as it becomes less relevant because of the technology on cars.”
But it’s still taught to drivers. Bransgrove added: “We have to cover the syllabus so even if the instructor’s or student’s car doesn’t have a manual handbrake, we still have to cover how a traditional brake works.
“In the test, it doesn’t matter what the car is, the examiner will be looking at whether the driver moves off safely and in control without rolling back.”

How long will the manual handbrake last?​

In the UK, BMW, Cupra, DS Automobiles, Honda, Jaguar, Land Rover, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Peugeot, Polestar, Porsche, Tesla and Volvo already don’t offer a single car with a manual handbrake.
Tellingly, cars that have recently stopped offering manual handbrakes include the Peugeot 108 and Citroen C1 city cars and the Nissan Micra supermini.
If a new car is launched in the next couple of years with a manual handbrake, it will probably last until 2030 because there’ll be no point going to the expense of replacing it. But when all new cars sold in the UK have to be electric, the manual handbrake will probably be released into the motoring history books.

Will the manual handbrake be missed?​

On paper, there’s much to like about the traditional handbrake. But as with the manual gearbox, the march of technology isn’t on its side.
Head of policy and Research at IAM RoadSmart, Rebecca Ashton, said: “I think some people will feel there’s less to go wrong with a conventional handbrake. And it does concern me that some people might miss maintenance or ignore warning lights because of the increased cost of repairing a faulty electronic parking brake.
“But maybe we should embrace the technology and get used to the electronic parking brake for the benefits it offers.”
So it comes down to personal taste. Do I miss the handbrake? I certainly don’t miss looking at an ugly lever. But I have noticed that the tiny switch makes it less likely that I’ll secure the car while stationary at traffic lights as I do with a regular handbrake.
 

MattA7

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Railway-Owned Commercial Vehicles (Stevens-Stratton and Aldridge, Ian Allan, 1987) says that it was forthcoming changes to the Construction & Use Regulations that did for the Scarab and Townsman, its successor. They ‘appeared to rule out the continuing use of non-braked single-steering road wheels’.

Going back to the original post, I think that there is a major problem in the number of people driving who have never passed a test or, often, even taken one. Additionally, I wonder if the whole system has caught up with the way that new drivers can jump straight into cars with ridiculous top speeds and acceleration. Long ago, most beginners would have an old banger that had a top speed of 60, but only down hill after several minutes of acceleration.

I imagine most (if not all) full license holders have passed a driving test. Those who got there license before the test was compulsory were allowed to keep their license but it’s unlikely anyone in that situation will be still alive as the test became mandatory in 1935.
 

Joe Paxton

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An article in today's Telegraph https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/advice/traditional-manual-handbrake-motoring-extinction-list/ referred to the rise of elelectronic handbrakes, such that a survey by car sales website CarGurus UK found that only 13 per cent of new models currently on sale have the ratcheted lever that has for so long been a driving staple. It also made the point that today's learners don't have to know how to do a hill-start by finding the 'biting point' because the car they learn on, and pass their test on, does not have a ratchet hand brake. How would this work if such a learner had to do a hill start in an older car with a ratchet handbrake?

Surely depends on how quick said learner / new driver / driver unfamiliar with ratchet handbrakes steps on the brake pedal... !
 
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