St Pancras Departure Boards

[Bletchleyite]

I use these trains regularly, so I'm fully aware of the two TOCs and their services. I still find it useful to know which services are available.

And you are, because you can look at the two adjacent boards.

 

[Haywain]

And you are, because you can look at the two adjacent boards.

So can anyone else.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So can anyone else.

Confused. I thought you were opposing them being split by TOC?

 

[Haywain]

Confused. I thought you were opposing them being split by TOC?

No, I'm opposed to the 'next fastest train' silliness.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, I'm opposed to the 'next fastest train' silliness.

What's wrong with having "next fastest train" boards in addition to others? Most major stations now do.

I'd oppose a Manc Picc like solution of ONLY having that.

 

[SE%Traveller]

I like the way the temp board shows info by train operator, it means you can focus in on the service you're looking for. For Thameslink I'd go one further and split Northbound/ Southbound too.

if you were to do that i could see the Merit of combining the Northbound board with EMR or possibly two northbound boards, one for the MML and the other for the ECML. Kings X already combines Thameslink and GN departures.

 

[TheHSRailFan]

You may be sad, but I guarantee you 95% of St Pancras users won't be. They were absolutely rubbish, and not great to read from a distance.

I really hope that the new boards aren't segregated by operator but instead ordered by time, maybe excluding Eurostar (you could have "Domestic Departures" and "International Departures" perhaps) because this typically makes it easier to find your train, rather than having to find the right board for your operator.

Oh, I'm sure the st pancras users will be glad. I just find it history and I find them good. but in OPs post, it's obvious they will be segregated, which I see as a good thing. There are a lot of trains that pass and leave the station. Having EMR, TL and SEHS on the same board would be quite overwhelming, especially for someone who has a disability. Keeping each Operator as separate departure boards is a good thing and I can see many benefits with it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh, I'm sure the st pancras users will be glad. I just find it history and I find them good. but in OPs post, it's obvious they will be segregated, which I see as a good thing. There are a lot of trains that pass and leave the station. Having EMR, TL and SEHS on the same board would be quite overwhelming, especially for someone who has a disability. Keeping each Operator as separate departure boards is a good thing and I can see many benefits with it.

TBH I think this is one where even BR would have split by "TOC" - Thameslink, InterCity Midland Main Line, Kent Link and Eurostar, or somesuch.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Another thing, on closer look at these pictures by @Hadders , is here the Thameslink board says “No Thameslink services,” while the EMR board shows four Thameslink services an hour at **:03, **:19, **:33 and **:49, because they were departing from MML Platform 1. This means they’re not segregated by TOC, but the Platforms normally used by the TOC, making it all the more confusing.

Aka - these are not a board for Thameslink services and a board for EMR services, but a board for Platforms A&B (branded as Thameslink departures) and one for Platforms 1-4 (branded as EMR departures), making things really confusing on days like this as it suggests there are no Thameslink services available at all!

 

[Via Bank]

There's absolutely a case to organise by platform group, particularly when there's trains going every few minutes, and they go from different platforms with different gatelines, and there's a mix of high-frequency metro trains and regional semi-fasts and inter-city expresses. Things will end up moving up the board faster than you can display all the information and then give people time to read it.

Consider: LUL stations pretty much always have separate boards for each line, because if you want an eastbound Hainault train you're unlikely to care that there's two Victoria line trains coming before that one.

By comparison, if you try looking at the NR boards in the ticket halls at Stratford, all the trains are lumped into one pot—so if you want to know when the next westbound Liz line is, or the next Tottenham train, or the next Overground to Camden Town, you have to hunt for it amongst all the others. This is maybe not such a problem when most of these are on a turn-up-and-go basis, but at a place like St Pancras it clearly matters if people have Advances, or even on Thameslink where mis-timing a coffee break could mean a lengthy wait for the next train.

 

[edwin_m]

There's absolutely a case to organise by platform group, particularly when there's trains going every few minutes, and they go from different platforms with different gatelines, and there's a mix of high-frequency metro trains and regional semi-fasts and inter-city expresses. Things will end up moving up the board faster than you can display all the information and then give people time to read it.

Consider: LUL stations pretty much always have separate boards for each line, because if you want an eastbound Hainault train you're unlikely to care that there's two Victoria line trains coming before that one.

By comparison, if you try looking at the NR boards in the ticket halls at Stratford, all the trains are lumped into one pot—so if you want to know when the next westbound Liz line is, or the next Tottenham train, or the next Overground to Camden Town, you have to hunt for it amongst all the others. This is maybe not such a problem when most of these are on a turn-up-and-go basis, but at a place like St Pancras it clearly matters if people have Advances, or even on Thameslink where mis-timing a coffee break could mean a lengthy wait for the next train.

However TfL doesn't suddenly have, for example, Northern Line trains departing from the Jubilee Line platforms. In the situation shown on the preceding post the Thameslink trains should have been on the Thameslink screen with the relevant high level platforms. If this wasn't possible for some reason then there should have been a notice on the Thameslink screen (even just a paper one) telling people to refer to the EMR screen.

As I mentioned further back, there are several screens around the station showing all departures in time order regardless of operator, which I find useful although I do think they should just show one screen's worth rather than flipping between two pages. For this larger departure screen segregation by service group (not quite the same as platform group) plus a "Next Fastest Train To" seems to be to be the best solution.

 

[Hairy Bear]

That's now being dropped according to the latest retail brief.

Maybe should have emphasised that it's the groupsave/ easyjet tickets now valid on emphasised services.

 

[jon0844]

I really hope that the new boards aren't segregated by operator but instead ordered by time, maybe excluding Eurostar (you could have "Domestic Departures" and "International Departures" perhaps) because this typically makes it easier to find your train, rather than having to find the right board for your operator.

Agreed. You could have TOC specific screens for messages relating only to one TOC, and to easily show the platforms they use for route finding (which means when TL uses the upper platforms, they can use that screen to reflect that change). When it comes to the actual trains, mix them up (with or without Eurostar services) as that's what people are used to.

 

[cactustwirly]

You may be sad, but I guarantee you 95% of St Pancras users won't be. They were absolutely rubbish, and not great to read from a distance.

I really hope that the new boards aren't segregated by operator but instead ordered by time, maybe excluding Eurostar (you could have "Domestic Departures" and "International Departures" perhaps) because this typically makes it easier to find your train, rather than having to find the right board for your operator.

But if you're traveling through St Pancras you will know your operator. There is very little overlap between them, except Bedford.

 

[Mikey C]

The other complication is that for some services it may be quicker to walk across the road to Kings Cross rather than use Thameslink!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

But if you're traveling through St Pancras you will know your operator. There is very little overlap between them, except Bedford.

Look at what I’ve said here

View attachment 131310

Another thing, on closer look at these pictures by @Hadders , is here the Thameslink board says “No Thameslink services,” while the EMR board shows four Thameslink services an hour at **:03, **:19, **:33 and **:49, because they were departing from MML Platform 1. This means they’re not segregated by TOC, but the Platforms normally used by the TOC, making it all the more confusing.

Aka - these are not a board for Thameslink services and a board for EMR services, but a board for Platforms A&B (branded as Thameslink departures) and one for Platforms 1-4 (branded as EMR departures), making things really confusing on days like this as it suggests there are no Thameslink services available at all!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Aka - these are not a board for Thameslink services and a board for EMR services, but a board for Platforms A&B (branded as Thameslink departures) and one for Platforms 1-4 (branded as EMR departures), making things really confusing on days like this as it suggests there are no Thameslink services available at all!

I think that's just a bug. The software easily allowed segregation by platform but not TOC as standard, so they used that feature, and it didn't occur to them that on occasions it wouldn't work correctly.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think that's just a bug. The software easily allowed segregation by platform but not TOC as standard, so they used that feature, and it didn't occur to them that on occasions it wouldn't work correctly.

It must confuse Hull Trains customers too when diverts occur, to only be given departures titled specifically with other operators. I know that’s a bit more far fetched as it’s not very regular, but it’s yet another thing if not as major as the other points.

 

[zwk500]

Look at what I’ve said here

The boards are presumably set up like that because in normal service the TIPLOC alone is enough to distinguish by. A silly oversight but an understandable one. Especially as they're usually referred to as 'the EMR platforms'

 

[Bletchleyite]

It must confuse Hull Trains customers too when diverts occur, to only be given departures titled specifically with other operators. I know that’s a bit more far fetched as it’s not very regular, but it’s yet another thing if not as major as the other points.

I could see a case for changing the titles on those to something like:

Thameslink Low Level Station
East Midlands InterCity and Regional Express
Kent High Speed
International Services

Which is probably what they'd say if we still had BR in charge. But they're a mouthful, and most people know the TOC names. And it's only an issue in a rare set of circumstances, and in those they could probably edit that "no Thameslink services" note to read "Platform A/B closed; please see the EMR display for Thameslink services today" and remove the issue. As for Hull it's so far out of the norm people will just ask someone.

BR did do it as noted above - see this photo (source: Manchester Evening News) showing the old departure board in the 1970s station building some time around the mid 90s, with sections for "InterCity and Express" and "R. R. N. W. Local Services", though these didn't really align to specific areas of the station. The photo also shows that the LCD type displays used at St Pancras were a big fad in the 90s! (They felt supermodern back then compared to Solari flapboards, and LED hadn't really got into the market yet).

 

[zwk500]

Fundamentally, the issue with displaying Thameslink trains under the EMR title would be if there are TOC-Specific ticket restrictions (which may well be the case). Otherwise the only important thing is that the labels on the screen match the signage around the station so that passengers know where to head for their respective trains. The 4 groups of platforms are quite a fair distance from each other and the station signage often feels like it's more focused on not ruining the architecture than on actually showing people where to go.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fundamentally, the issue with displaying Thameslink trains under the EMR title would be if there are TOC-Specific ticket restrictions (which may well be the case). Otherwise the only important thing is that the labels on the screen match the signage around the station so that passengers know where to head for their respective trains. The 4 groups of platforms are quite a fair distance from each other and the station signage often feels like it's more focused on not ruining the architecture than on actually showing people where to go.

I've just checked and there are no TOC specific wallk up tickets to Luton Airport Parkway, Luton or Bedford, which are the ones that would be most relevant, and hardly anyone will use Advances for those journeys if they even exist. Unless easyJet still sell those on board Thameslink only transfers?

 

[zwk500]

I've just checked and there are no TOC specific wallk up tickets to Luton Airport Parkway, Luton or Bedford, which are the ones that would be most relevant, and hardly anyone will use Advances for those journeys if they even exist. Unless easyJet still sell those on board Thameslink only transfers?

In that case then displaying Thameslink trains under the 'EMR' label is only going to cause problems for a small band of pedants, so long as the 'EMR' platforms are clearly signed from the display board areas.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'd be very amused to see if these boards come with announcements. Obviously Anne is on SE, and a different set up sees Anne and Matt down on TL, Celia announces boarding on Eurostar, but EMR have nothing at the moment and everything is zoned so nothing is on the concourse. Thameslink should remain zoned obviously due to the frequency, but it'd be nice if an ATOS set up could announce Southeastern and EMR on the downstairs concourse, and then possibly even some Check-in now open/Check-in about to close for Eurostar there?

Wishful thinking I'm sure. I guess I'm just desperate for St Pancras to feel more like a station that's great for shopping, not a shopping centre with trains.

 

[cactustwirly]

I'd be very amused to see if these boards come with announcements. Obviously Anne is on SE, and a different set up sees Anne and Matt down on TL, Celia announces boarding on Eurostar, but EMR have nothing at the moment and everything is zoned so nothing is on the concourse. Thameslink should remain zoned obviously due to the frequency, but it'd be nice if an ATOS set up could announce Southeastern and EMR on the downstairs concourse, and then possibly even some Check-in now open/Check-in about to close for Eurostar there?

Wishful thinking I'm sure. I guess I'm just desperate for St Pancras to feel more like a station that's great for shopping, not a shopping centre with trains.

Southeastern and EMR both use Worldline systems, however the setup is different. EMR use a very early system from NX days.

I don't believe there is an overall manager for the CIS, as each area is managed by each ToC

 

[zwk500]

Southeastern and EMR both use Worldline systems, however the setup is different. EMR use a very early system from NX days.

I don't believe there is an overall manager for the CIS, as each area is managed by each ToC

Correct - SE & GTR have their own controls near their respective platforms and the overall station control does the EMR ones. I've never heard a Eurostar announcement outside the departure lounge.

 

[Richardr]

In that case then displaying Thameslink trains under the 'EMR' label is only going to cause problems for a small band of pedants, so long as the 'EMR' platforms are clearly signed from the display board areas.

The issue isn't in displaying Thameslink trains under the EMR label - it is displaying under the Thameslink label that there are no Thameslink trains. If that part of the board were to say there are some Thameslink trains, and that these are running from the EMR platforms to stations between St Pancras and Bedford, look under EMR for them, it would be fine.

 

[zwk500]

The issue isn't in displaying Thameslink trains under the EMR label - it is displaying under the Thameslink label that there are no Thameslink trains. If that part of the board were to say there are some Thameslink trains, and that these are running from the EMR platforms to stations between St Pancras and Bedford, look under EMR for them, it would be fine.

Fair point.

 

[plugwash]

The issue isn't in displaying Thameslink trains under the EMR label - it is displaying under the Thameslink label that there are no Thameslink trains. If that part of the board were to say there are some Thameslink trains, and that these are running from the EMR platforms to stations between St Pancras and Bedford, look under EMR for them, it would be fine.

And prefferablly also a note that thameslink trains to Cambridge/Peterborough will be departing from Kings Cross instead.

 

[Haywain]

And prefferablly also a note that thameslink trains to Cambridge/Peterborough will be departing from Kings Cross instead.

Not to mention all the southbound services...