Building a road over the railway in Wigan

[Gathursty]

For many, many years, Wigan Council and various stakeholders have been toying with the idea of building a bypass across Wigan as a type of road extension of the M58 towards Bolton. In the intervening years housebuilding has stymied some of the most sensible routes narrowing the options left for a route across Wigan.

I am focusing on the M58 - Pemberton section as I have a solution that occurred to me when I was thinking about the M6 elevated section in Birmingham and the Britannia Bridge in Anglesey which go over the railway for more than a trivial length.

My question are:
1) Would NR allow a road to be built over the railway?
2) What would be the cost of such a scheme?
3) How much clearance would be needed for an overhead road?

Image added with my vision for the route.

PS: The thin slither of land between the railway and Leopold Street is half filled with houses.
Conversion of any section of Leopold Street would require a chicane limiting free flowing traffic due to existing houses at both ends.

 

[Meerkat]

I assume the authorities decided they fundamentally didn't ever want that link built, as the route alongside the railway seemed to have been kept clear but then later allowed to be blocked with housing. I wonder whether it was decided that the strange M6 junction (bit of single carriageway motorway!) had constraints that meant it could never be rebuilt such that it could take the increase in traffic toward Wigan.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would be astonished to see a major elevated road scheme get authorisation these days. It is a huge blight and very much something that belongs in the 1980s - today's view is towards taking such schemes down, as has happened in a couple of places so far, one being Liverpool and the other I think Hertford.

You are no way going to get through turning leafy (ish) Pemberton into the M6 through Brum.

 

[Gathursty]

You are no way going to get through turning leafy (ish) Pemberton into the M6 through Brum.

My preference would be to not have a road on stilts. I agree with how ridiculous that would be.

What I would be up for would be to 'HS2' the land by hiding the railway 'underground' and building up the nearby land either side of the railway so that the road wouldn't appear to be on stilts.

 

[snowball]

The saga of whether and how to build a road eastwards from the M58 has been going on for many decades. At one time it was called A5225, now it seems to be A5197. I'm not sure whether this Wigan Council page reflects current proposals:

https://www.wigan.gov.uk/Docs/PDF/Resident/Parking-Roads-Travel/Roads/M58-Link-road/M58-link-road-scheme.pdf

Background

You may be aware that Wigan Council has plans to create a new
link road to improve journey times, reduce congestion and increase
connectivity across the borough.
The link road will be a 2.3km single carriageway link between Junction
6 of the M58 and Junction 26 of the M6 and the southern part of Wigan
town centre.
It will provide a new high profile access point into Wigan town centre
from the M58/M6 and connects a number of key employment sites to
local roads, which will bring the opportunity to create new jobs linking
with the council’s wider commitment to supporting the borough’s
economy.
The link road aims to alleviate traffic on Ormskirk Road (A577), which is
one of Wigan Borough’s busiest routes, addressing a severe weakness
in Wigan’s transport network. Building on the success of the A49 link
road, which opened in 2020, the new road will form a major piece in the
jigsaw to improve east-west connections across the borough.
The road will have a 30mph speed limit and will be complete with
pedestrian and cycle facilities.
In May 2018, planning permission was secured to connect the M58/M6
motorway junction to Billinge Road by extending Leopold Street on to
Pemberton Business Park, connecting with the roundabout at Smithy
Brook Road.

Scheme update

The original scheme proposals were to refurbish the existing Network
Rail owned Pemberton rail bridge to accommodate the new road with a
traffic signalised junction.
Challenges since identified with the existing bridge means that it is not
possible to deliver this junction without significant local disruption to
the highway network, utility network and Pemberton train station.
Our design consultants have undertaken a comprehensive study to
consider alternative options, including rebuilding the existing structure
in the same location or building a structure in a new location.
The study concluded that the overall least disruptive option would be
to build a new bridge in a new location, avoiding the existing bridge
completely. This approach would provide least disruption to the
highway and rail network during construction, whilst providing an
improved long-term solution. More information can be found in the
FAQ’s sheet overleaf./quote]

 

[Meerkat]

I would be astonished to see a major elevated road scheme get authorisation these days. It is a huge blight and very much something that belongs in the 1980s - today's view is towards taking such schemes down, as has happened in a couple of places so far, one being Liverpool and the other I think Hertford.

You are no way going to get through turning leafy (ish) Pemberton into the M6 through Brum.

The railway is in a cutting there isn't it?

The saga of whether and how to build a road eastwards from the M58 has been going on for many decades. At one time it was called A5225, now it seems to be A5197. I'm not sure whether this Wigan Council page reflects current proposals:

https://www.wigan.gov.uk/Docs/PDF/Resident/Parking-Roads-Travel/Roads/M58-Link-road/M58-link-road-scheme.pdf

That's a really budget scheme!
Partly I approve in that it gets traffic off the local roads and the 30mph single carriageway shouldn't attract too much new traffic.
On the other hand a 30mph single carriageway link between a motorway and a dual carriageway, with a signalised crossroads is going to get awfully congested. Wouldn't want to be a truck driver trying to turn right out of that industrial estate to get to the motorway!
Also going to make J26 a bit congested - its not really suitable for the end of the M58

 

[Bald Rick]

To answer the questions:

1) it wouldn’t be NRs decision; it would come down to the decision of the Secretary of State in the planning inquiry. But it would certainly have the possibility of being permitted

2) no idea, but likely in the hundreds of millions. It would unquestionably be cheaper to run alongside the railway, and then widen the existing Leopold St, and demolish a few houses; it appear room has been left for this.

3) minimum clearance would be 5.6metres above rail level (less in some specific circumstances, that are unlikely here).

I would be astonished to see a major elevated road scheme get authorisation these days.

M74 in Glasgow was fairly recent. And very expensive.

 

[Themapdrawer]

For many, many years, Wigan Council and various stakeholders have been toying with the idea of building a bypass across Wigan as a type of road extension of the M58 towards Bolton. In the intervening years housebuilding has stymied some of the most sensible routes narrowing the options left for a route across Wigan.

I am focusing on the M58 - Pemberton section as I have a solution that occurred to me when I was thinking about the M6 elevated section in Birmingham and the Britannia Bridge in Anglesey which go over the railway for more than a trivial length.

My question are:
1) Would NR allow a road to be built over the railway?
2) What would be the cost of such a scheme?
3) How much clearance would be needed for an overhead road?

Image added with my vision for the route.

PS: The thin slither of land between the railway and Leopold Street is half filled with houses.
Conversion of any section of Leopold Street would require a chicane limiting free flowing traffic due to existing houses at both ends.

They have already come up with a plan. Not sure if it is fully approved yet though. See images attached.




Ultimately, NR cannot play hard ball for too long and not sure they are tbh. The good news is the Pemberton segment can still be done before the M58 link. See illustrations. This means that not only could the full junction be built up to the future bridge, but even just one half of it, the side going to Tulach estate (Queens Pit Road), off Billinge Road.




I personally would prefer the junction as a round about though, it would still work the same way. This would be so that to upgrade the mini roundabout junction at the station which is, and will be moreso dangerous to negate as a pedestrian or cyclist to a traffic controlled junction with turning filter lights, like near Robin Park. This option would requier the full junction to be built, but can still be built off road and up to the bridge towards the M58, like the other plan



While we're talking junction upgrades, what do you think if THIS for an idea (see pictures) for the town center? It would be a traffic light controlled roundabout.



I have attached different examples of traffic flow as well as the current layout for comparrison.

 

[Gathursty]

For the naysayers, explain why the Tesco at Gerrards Cross was permitted to be built over the Chiltern Main Line?

 

[Bletchleyite]

For the naysayers, explain why the Tesco at Gerrards Cross was permitted to be built over the Chiltern Main Line?

Obviously views on future schemes may be informed by the disastrous start to that scheme which could easily have killed several hundred people had the timing of the collapse not been more fortuitous?

But that aside, it's only a short section, a couple of hundred metres if that, not several miles.

 

[Gathursty]

Obviously views on future schemes may be informed by the disastrous start to that scheme which could easily have killed several hundred people had the timing of the collapse not been more fortuitous?

But that aside, it's only a short section, a couple of hundred metres if that, not several miles.

My suggestion requires only 1400 metres of road over railway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My suggestion requires only 1400 metres of road over railway.

Just a bit more than is needed for a fairly small Tesco.

 

[Gathursty]

Just a bit more than is needed for a fairly small Tesco.

We just need ambition and vision like we do with HS2 and Crossrail.

 

[Bletchleyite]

We just need ambition and vision like we do with HS2 and Crossrail.

To build a road? Aren't we meant to be moving away from that?

 

[Bald Rick]

For the naysayers, explain why the Tesco at Gerrards Cross was permitted to be built over the Chiltern Main Line?

There would be no issue about building it over the line from a technical or legal perspective.

The issue is cost, when there is a perfectly good route alongside the line to build the road much more cheaply.

 

[Mollman]

To build a road? Aren't we meant to be moving away from that?

Only in Wales, in England if you can prove that a road is 'environmentally beneficial' its fine, so you just put an 'active travel path' down the side that no-one in their right mind would use but you tick the box.