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House rules/Huisregeln/Hausregeln are the norm in all the Germanic countries in almost every public space, so yes, those. I note that the Abellio TOCs seem to have them as well, though they use the term "code of conduct" rather than literally translating it.
Some years ago I was on a GWR service in the quiet coach where someone was having a "domestic" on the phone.He got louder and louder ignoring the cries of hush from fellow passengers. Eventually he shouted down the phone "Am I being unreasonable?". The whole carriage shouted yes and he promptly shut up.
I had a bunch of Southampton supporters on a Weymouth Waterloo a few yers ago who were chanting f*** the quiet zone again and again when one of them noticed they were in the quiet zone and were screaming because they had won the first match of the 2016/17 season. Lightly loaded coach but people were irritated and said nothing.
Personally I'd rather, on long trains like Pendolinos, see a dedicated family coach where family-related noise e.g. playing stuff out loud on tablets is actively permitted, with e.g. more tables and maybe a play area.
How often do people find that the quiet coach (or equivalent for companies that like to give things different names) actually lives up to its name and is quiet(er)?
Used Chiltern quite regularly over the past 2 years, Never actually been on a quiet zone which is quiet, especially during the morning peaks coming out of Birmingham towards Solihull with college students etc using the services. Never seen a guard enforce it when they come through even though they do mention it in the announcements quite frequently.
If you try making a call in the Quiet Coach of an IET from Oxford to Paddington in the morning peak then may God have mercy on your soul.
Generally I find them pretty well observed on GWR, except for a few locations such as Evesham to Worcester. They were always a disaster on CrossCountry, though.
I get the impression from reading this that people expect the "quiet" coach to be one where there is NO noise, no conversations, or anything and to be totally silent. I always understood that it was only mobile phones and listening to music/sounds without headphones that was banned.
This sort of rubbish always seems to come up when quiet coaches are discussed. Just because phones and playing music are the examples specifically mentioned it doesn't mean every other type of noise is allowed.
It's almost as if certain people pretend they don't understand what the definition of the word "quiet" is.
I would guess there is practically nobody interested in a section where no phones or music is allowed but all other forms of noise are welcomed, there is however an endless supply of selfish ***** who believe they should be allowed do whatever they please at all times.
I get the impression from reading this that people expect the "quiet" coach to be one where there is NO noise, no conversations, or anything and to be totally silent. I always understood that it was only mobile phones and listening to music/sounds without headphones that was banned.
I’ve certainly found that to be the case on Chiltern in peak hours, where I saw someone get properly glared at simply for crunching an apple.
Personally I don’t really have a problem with it being “silent” as opposed to “quiet”, as that would resolve at least some of the squabbles. To be honest I’ve always found it odd that conversation is essentially permitted, as with some people lacking the self-awareness to be able to keep their voice down this can be particularly annoying when the rest of the carriage is silent. If people want to make noise then sit elsewhere, and if there’s no seats elsewhere then it’s not the end of the world to have to stay quiet for a short period of time - though clearly for some people it is.
If there is a desire for rail to attract people out of cars, quiet carriages are one way to do it when they work properly. Doing a journey in my car isn’t a lottery of whether there’s going to be some loudmouth breathing down my neck.
The real problem is, of course, the fact that an increasing proportion of the population don’t seem to understand how to behave in public spaces nowadays, and Covid seems to have made this very much worse. Maybe it’s a touch of rose-tinted spectacles however I found rail travel a lot more civilised in the 80s and 90s. Like everything in this country, things seem to have gone downhill.
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Used Chiltern quite regularly over the past 2 years, Never actually been on a quiet zone which is quiet, especially during the morning peaks coming out of Birmingham towards Solihull with college students etc using the services. Never seen a guard enforce it when they come through even though they do mention it in the announcements quite frequently.
Quiet coaches were introduced to keep mobile phone & noise from devices to a minimum. Was nothing to do with conversation between passengers.
Personally I’d get rid of them as they are more trouble than they are worth particularly for the poor guard & onboard crew who have to police or get involved with petty quarrels.
I agree with this as (this isn't the only example) on an Avanti voyager you have an entire carriage designated to the quiet zone and a carriage of first class making it a 3 car train which isn't helpful when they sent a 5 car voyager all the way from Shrewsbury to London the other day (would normally double up along the way)
And rightly so: the inconsiderate behaviour of other people is regularly cited as a reason not to take public transport and to drive your own car instead. Quiet coaches are a little step towards providing a more competitive product in this way.
Personally I'd rather, on long trains like Pendolinos, see a dedicated family coach where family-related noise e.g. playing stuff out loud on tablets is actively permitted, with e.g. more tables and maybe a play area. That would contain it more voluntarily, as most of this sort of nuisance is families.
As a parent myself of two (usually!) well behaved children I would love it if a train company did this, and we would use rail travel as a family much more often.
Having a family coach hopefully away from obnoxious swearing, drunk adult groups would be fantastic if it was properly enforced, particularly at weekends. I’d much rather listen to some other kid’s tablet than the constant foul language that seem to be a feature of most train journeys nowadays.
Quiet coaches were introduced to keep mobile phone & noise from devices to a minimum. Was nothing to do with conversation between passengers.
Personally I’d get rid of them as they are more trouble than they are worth particularly for the poor guard & onboard crew who have to police or get involved with petty quarrels.
I find that a little defeatist. A lot of the problems you describe are caused because many of the TOCs fail to specify what is expected in the quiet carriage, and in some cases don’t really designate them well. There have also been issues with people being booked into them by mistake.
Address the above, which shouldn’t be difficult, and it should be no more of an issue for staff than people doing other undesirable things like feet on seats.
If rail is attempting to compete on quality, which it seems (unlike for the last couple of decades) to need to do so, initiatives to improve the journey experience will be essential. Likewise if as a country we actually want to provide an alternative to people using their cars, where of course none of this is an issue. Personally I’d go even further and look at compartments.
I’d make it the nearest standard class carriage at the Euston end.
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I find that a little defeatist. A lot of the problems you describe are caused because many of the TOCs fail to specify what is expected in the quiet carriage, and in some cases don’t really designate them well. There have also been issues with people being booked into them by mistake.
Address the above, which shouldn’t be difficult, and it should be no more of an issue for staff than people doing other undesirable things like feet on seats.
If rail is attempting to compete on quality, which it seems (unlike for the last couple of decades) to need to do so, initiatives to improve the journey experience will be essential. Likewise if as a country we actually want to provide an alternative to people using their cars, where of course none of this is an issue. Personally I’d go even further and look at compartments.
The thing is, most of the population *don’t* use trains, and a good proportion of the relatively few that do only do so because it is the most realistic way of making their journey (for example a London commute). One has to ask the question as to why most people choose not to make a journey by train, when in theory it should be a pretty attractive mode of transport.
One of the biggest turn-offs is the behaviour of others, and this is something which has got a lot worse over recent times. Quiet carriages are a relatively easy way to attempt to deal with this, compartments are another way albeit more difficult. I’m not sure that desiring a peaceful journey is living in the past, for me it’s a perfectly reasonable objective, which most of the population already get when they take the car.
The alternative is to go down the road where rail travel is a total distress purchase. We seem to be pretty well on the road to reaching that with the way the service has been wrecked in various ways since 2019. I can well see trains becoming like buses, a mode of transport which has for all my lifetime had an image problem, as well as being an irrelevance for most of the population.
The thing is, most of the population *don’t* use trains, and a good proportion of the relatively few that do only do so because it is the most realistic way of making their journey (for example a London commute). One has to ask the question as to why most people choose not to make a journey by train, when in theory it should be a pretty attractive mode of transport.
One of the biggest turn-offs is the behaviour of others, and this is something which has got a lot worse over recent times. Quiet carriages are a relatively easy way to attempt to deal with this, compartments are another way albeit more difficult. I’m not sure that desiring a peaceful journey is living in the past, for me it’s a perfectly reasonable objective, which most of the population already get when they take the car.
The alternative is to go down the road where rail travel is a total distress purchase. We seem to be pretty well on the road to reaching that with the way the service has been wrecked in various ways since 2019. I can well see trains becoming like buses, a mode of transport which has for all my lifetime had an image problem, as well as being an irrelevance for most of the population.
The thing is, most of the population *don’t* use trains, and a good proportion of the relatively few that do only do so because it is the most realistic way of making their journey (for example a London commute). One has to ask the question as to why most people choose not to make a journey by train, when in theory it should be a pretty attractive mode of transport.
One of the biggest turn-offs is the behaviour of others, and this is something which has got a lot worse over recent times. Quiet carriages are a relatively easy way to attempt to deal with this, compartments are another way albeit more difficult. I’m not sure that desiring a peaceful journey is living in the past, for me it’s a perfectly reasonable objective, which most of the population already get when they take the car.
The alternative is to go down the road where rail travel is a total distress purchase. We seem to be pretty well on the road to reaching that with the way the service has been wrecked in various ways since 2019. I can well see trains becoming like buses, a mode of transport which has for all my lifetime had an image problem, as well as being an irrelevance for most of the population.
That's not acceptable anywhere, let alone in a quiet carriage. Why parents can't buy headphones (not exactly expensive compared to the price of a tablet) is beyond me.
I'd say use F, not the closest to first class, since G is the closest on refurbished 11s, and F is the closest standard on 9 cars.
Having a standard letter would probably help more than "it's next to first class"
It does frustrate me, because it’s yet another simple thing that the industry has managed to make a complete mess of implementing, leading to the issues you described. It should not be that difficult to visibly label a carriage as a quiet one, clarify what is expected within it, have a consistent standard throughout the industry where such carriages are offered, and manage not to book people in there by mistake. Is that *really* asking too much?
Then again, it seems any kind of service is too much at times. I write this as I am forced to drive to London, *again*, tomorrow morning due to no train service from my local station. Trains are fast becoming a complete irrelevance to most people in my town.
Certainly not. That’s the most convenient coach for me sit to get snacks & beer. Being surrounded by kids would be unbearable. Thankfully it’s never going to happen.
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I agree with this as (this isn't the only example) on an Avanti voyager you have an entire carriage designated to the quiet zone and a carriage of first class making it a 3 car train which isn't helpful when they sent a 5 car voyager all the way from Shrewsbury to London the other day (would normally double up along the way)
Totally and it makes those in it aggressive when it comes to anyone behaving anything other than in a library around them as they over emphasise the full meaning of the quiet coach. More trouble than they are worth.
I've never seen one enforced except on one occasion about a month ago - when it was an irate woman passenger on a Waterloo to Weymouth service getting up to aggressively shush anyone and everyone who made even the slightest noise.
I do not know if she has subsequently been hospitalised...
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