Foreigners' fare evasion

[railfan99]

I have never anywhere in the world evaded fares, although visiting Bury in September 2022, the bus driver refused to accept cash from me for a fare as he said I was only travelling one stop to Bolton Street for the East Lancs Railway.

I will next visit later this year, armed with a Eurailpass and (for London) an Oyster card, and buy tickets or day passes as appropriate on trams or buses such as in Nottingham.

Hence I have no interest in cheating on fares, the more so as I like to think my small expenditure is a 'thank you'

What do TfL, National Rail/franchisees' and Manchester Metrolink etc. revenue protection staff do when they catch a foreigner (who's not a temporary UK resident) evading fares, travelling to a station to which his or her ticket isn't valid or using a concession or other ticket that the traveller is not entitled to?

Do they issue a penalty notice and demand payment on the spot?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

It'll depend on the system that the particular transport undertaking uses. If their general way of dealing with fare-dodging is an immediately payable penalty, then that is what the foreign passenger will face. If the process is more time consuming then that is also what the foreigner will face. In other words, just like a UK resident: and this makes sense in that the overwhelming majority of passengers will be UK residents and it would be far too complicated to have a separate system to deal with the small minority of fare-evading foreigners.

So does that mean that a casual visitor can just not worry about being caught fare-dodging? No, because in the first instance that's not honest, and ultimately most societies run on the assumption that people will be honest, with the sanctions imposed by law only there as a back-up. But secondly most fare-protection systems do ultimately have the law and law courts as a sanction. While for a one-off case I think it's likely that a sensible transport undertaking would decide it wasn't worth pursuing the matter through the courts (even if they would for someone who was UK resident) I can also imagine that if a number of cases arrived on the prosecutor's desk all at once showing that Jo Foreigner had persistently not paid their fare, then prosecution might follow. Of course Mx Foreigner might not attend the court - but if the fare-dodging was serious enough then I understand that our border authorities might be advised. Mx Foreigner might find it difficult to come back to the UK in future.

 

[Gloster]

It'll depend on the system that the particular transport undertaking uses. If their general way of dealing with fare-dodging is an immediately payable penalty, then that is what the foreign passenger will face. If the process is more time consuming then that is also what the foreigner will face. In other words, just like a UK resident: and this makes sense in that the overwhelming majority of passengers will be UK residents and it would be far too complicated to have a separate system to deal with the small minority of fare-evading foreigners.

So does that mean that a casual visitor can just not worry about being caught fare-dodging? No, because in the first instance that's not honest, and ultimately most societies run on the assumption that people will be honest, with the sanctions imposed by law only there as a back-up. But secondly most fare-protection systems do ultimately have the law and law courts as a sanction. While for a one-off case I think it's likely that a sensible transport undertaking would decide it wasn't worth pursuing the matter through the courts (even if they would for someone who was UK resident) I can also imagine that if a number of cases arrived on the prosecutor's desk all at once showing that Jo Foreigner had persistently not paid their fare, then prosecution might follow. Of course Mx Foreigner might not attend the court - but if the fare-dodging was serious enough then I understand that our border authorities might be advised. Mx Foreigner might find it difficult to come back to the UK in future.

I know of someone who visited Australia and picked up a motoring fine (or possibly several), but left before paying them. A couple of years later they arrived in Australia again and weren’t allowed through immigration until they had paid the fine(s) plus various extras.

 

[WesternLancer]

I have never anywhere in the world evaded fares, although visiting Bury in September 2022, the bus driver refused to accept cash from me for a fare as he said I was only travelling one stop to Bolton Street for the East Lancs Railway.

I will next visit later this year, armed with a Eurailpass and (for London) an Oyster card, and buy tickets or day passes as appropriate on trams or buses such as in Nottingham.

Hence I have no interest in cheating on fares, the more so as I like to think my small expenditure is a 'thank you'

What do TfL, National Rail/franchisees' and Manchester Metrolink etc. revenue protection staff do when they catch a foreigner (who's not a temporary UK resident) evading fares, travelling to a station to which his or her ticket isn't valid or using a concession or other ticket that the traveller is not entitled to?

Do they issue a penalty notice and demand payment on the spot?

Interesting question - you would hope that at least in some cases staff would appreciate that the systems can be not always simple for all overeas visitors to fully understand and thus would take a pragmatic approach (like that friendly Bury bus driver!), but of course this has to be set against staff thinking that the traveller is deliberately evading the fare / or being rigid in their job role etc.

There was a case on here with Chiltern railways recently where someone was seeking advice as she had been reported for potential prosecution whilst her travelling companion was charged a punitive fare - ie no discounts for off peak etc (or possibly a Penalty Fare). IIRC The scenario was she had bought railcard discounts for both of them but they had no railcards, her travelling companion was from overseas, she was not. So I assume the Inspector took the view that it was better to extract fare money off the overseas resident then and there but report the UK resident for further investigation. I would assume this would be because the prospects of getting a financial result from taking the overseas resident to court was less probable, so best to take some money then and there. Also of course someone who predominantly spends their time / lives outside the UK is less likely to be persistently evading train fares in the UK for obvious reasons.

 

[island]

Anecdotal evidence suggests that when dealing with a foreign resident, some railway officers may choose a resolution such as selling a new ticket or issuance of a Penalty Fare where they believe that resolution by way of getting some money out of the passenger would be better for the railway compared to reporting for a prosecution that might not, in the end, get anything.

They aren't allowed to insist payment on the spot, although they can threaten with police attendance if no payment is made. (The foreign resident is unlikely to know that the police are even less likely to attend.)

 

[railfan99]

I know of someone who visited Australia and picked up a motoring fine (or possibly several), but left before paying them. A couple of years later they arrived in Australia again and weren’t allowed through immigration until they had paid the fine(s) plus various extras.

'Extras' are because if one doesn't pay, after a certain time it automatically increases. This is to deter non-payers.

I agree that if we didn't pay the correct fare, it'd be a microcosm of societal breakdown. Look at Greece, where allegedly many didn't pay tax.

My personal sense of responsibility is in almost all countries, mass transit/public transport whether metropolitan or rural is subsidised (some UK buses a rare exception?) so it's my duty to pay the specified fare. If one uses for reasonable distances, Eurailpasses/Interail passes are an excellent deal, especially in higher fare per kilometre locations like UK/France/Switzerland.

Do UK public transport infringements automatically rise after say three months if one hasn't coughed up the fine?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Mar 2023 ==

...you would hope that at least in some cases staff would appreciate that the systems can be not always simple for all overeas visitors to fully understand and thus would take a pragmatic approach (like that friendly Bury bus driver!)...

In Bury, after the bus driver declined payment, I asked him again, but he still said 'no need to pay a fare'. I wanted the bus ticket to see what it looked like, but was too slow to explain.

Later, with Ruabon-Llangollen return on an Arriva double decker one way and normal bus returning, a rainy morning from Midland Hotel Bradford to Bradford Interchange railway station, plus a return trip Taunton RS-Bishops Lydeard, I built up my collection of UK bus tickets, and was pleased I contributed in a small way to passenger usage.

 

[island]

Do UK public transport infringements automatically rise after say three months if one hasn't coughed up the fine?

No.

 

[Watershed]

Do UK public transport infringements automatically rise after say three months if one hasn't coughed up the fine?

It depends what exactly the 'infringement' in question is. Up until very recently, Penalty Fares (a common way of disposing of minor irregularities) were simply £20 or twice the relevant fare, whichever was higher. The Regulations did not provide for this to increase if left unpaid, although many TOCs nevertheless demanded made-up administration fees and then cancelled unpaid PFs and proceeded to prosecute.

The Regulations now provide for a Penalty Fare of £50 plus the relevant fare, increasing to £100 if not paid or appealed within 21 days. Alongside a significant increase in the value of the penalty, this largely has the effect of legitimating the dubious practices that previously went on.

Irregularities are most commonly dealt with by simply selling a ticket, albeit if available facilities aren't used, the NRCoT entitle staff to only sell an full-price Anytime Single to the next stop, even if that is not the ticket the passenger wanted to buy (i.e. they wanted a return/Railcard-discounted/Off-Peak ticket to another station).

In other cases, irregularities may also be dealt with by means of an Unpaid Fares Notice, which is essentially a bill for an unpaid fare. Most typically issued if the passenger isn't carrying any means to pay or disputes that a fare is owed (e.g. because they claim their ticket is valid); sometimes the TOCs will again try and charge a dubious admin fee on top if left unpaid for a certain period (usually 14-28 days).

The most serious outcome possible is to be reported for prosecution (sometimes known as MG11'd, after the name of the template form for a Magistrates' Court witness statement). Here, again, passengers are often given an opportunity to settle the matter out of Court, typically for the unpaid fare plus fee of £80-120 that purports to represent the TOCs' costs but is really just a thinly veiled penalty.

If no settlement is offered or paid, then the penalty upon conviction at Court is likely to be a fine of between 25-150% of the defendant's weekly income, depending on the aggravating and mitigating factors relating to the offence. See the Sentencing Guidelines here. On top of this they would be ordered to pay any outstanding fares and the purported prosecution costs, again typically inflated to £100-200, as well as the Victim Surcharge (40% of the fine).

 

[Krokodil]

A tourist (unlike a student or whatever) won't be able to provide a UK address so won't be able to be chased for non-payment. Therefore the preference may be to get them to pay a penalty on the spot.

 

[railfan99]

Therefore the preference may be to get them to pay a penalty on the spot.

Island above said this isn't permitted. Confusing!

 

[Krokodil]

Island above said this isn't permitted. Confusing!

You need to reread the full quote:

They aren't allowed to insist payment on the spot, although they can threaten with police attendance if no payment is made.

 

[Watershed]

Island above said this isn't permitted. Confusing!

The Penalty Fares Regulations don't allow them to insist on on-the-spot payment, but that doesn't stop some RPIs from falsely claiming that this is required.