• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Market Harborough - Northampton Proposed Re-opening

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mollman

Established Member
Joined
21 Sep 2016
Messages
1,722
Location
Preston
Did it really close as late as 1981? Is there much potential given the old line didn't serve Brixworth, the only intermediate settlement of note, that well?

Bid to reopen rail line between Market Harborough and Northampton​

    • Published
      1 day ago
Share
Market Harborough railway station
IMAGE SOURCE,GOOGLE
Image caption,
The line connecting the two towns was closed in 1981
Campaigners and politicians have discussed plans to reopen a railway line closed more than 40 years ago.
Market Harborough and Northampton used to be connected by a rail link that was opened in 1859, but shut in 1981.
Campaigners are calling for the 14-mile route to be restored and said it would benefit both commuters and tourists while taking cars off the road.
The English Regional Transport Association (ERTA) said it was a "worthy cause to pursue".
The group also said restoring the service would open up a new "north/south national rail corridor", linking the Midland Mainline with the West Coast Mainline, according to the Local Democracy Reporting Service.
Councillor Peter James from Harborough District Council said he was fully behind the campaign.
"In terms of the local people of Market Harborough, who are very important in this, it does give a transport choice and alternative," he said,
"Driving between the two towns is a bit of a nightmare. Even now it's difficult and more congestion is predicted.
"As part of the climate change agenda, we should do what we can, to cut down on congestion and pollution."
Mr James added that a feasibility study "must now take place" to see if the line could reopen.
The meeting between the ERTA, residents and councillors, took place on Saturday.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-64936990
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

A0

On Moderation
Joined
19 Jan 2008
Messages
7,751
Did it really close as late as 1981? Is there much potential given the old line didn't serve Brixworth, the only intermediate settlement of note, that well?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-64936990

This thread touched on it..... https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...st-route-and-end-station.244085/#post-6114679

The answer is, no there isn't. It's barking at the moon territory.

In many ways this is the perfect example of a rural railway which served no real purpose for passengers. It linked two destinations for which there was limited demand for travel, the stations were inaccessible for the villages they purported to serve. Once its freight uses - Ironstone from local quarries and coal from Nottinghamshire - dried up, so did the line's reason for existence.

The body "espousing" this change are a bunch of 30 or so crayonistas who seem to have a tenuous understanding of the real world let alone the basic practicalities of building and operating a railway. Their website is good value entertainment if you have 5 minutes of your life that you don't mind not getting back.

Between Northampton and Market Harborough there is an hourly bus which actually serves the villages (which the railway didn't) - it's rarely more than half full. So a train stopping at Brixworth only would be carting fresh air around.

And conservatively (small c) I reckon there wouldn't be change out of £ 0.75bn to rebuild this - it would be a monumental waste of money.
 

70014IronDuke

Established Member
Joined
13 Jun 2015
Messages
4,089
Did it really close as late as 1981? Is there much potential given the old line didn't serve Brixworth, the only intermediate settlement of note, that well?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-64936990
The line closed to passengers in something like 63 or 64. It was a moderately important freight route after the WCML electrification, with mineral trains running to London via Northampton and electric haulage for a few years.

It then "reopened" for passenger service - of sorts, ie 1 tpd - when the St Pancras - Glasgow sleeper was rerouted into Euston. I think that must have stopped c 1977? (I don't think that lasted until 1981, BICBW.)

It was also used for testing purposes, eg APT in the eary 70s.

I suppose the odd freight or ECS turn was still using it in its later years, but by 81 it had run its course.
In many ways it was lucky to have lasted that long after passenger services ceased. But in the sense that it's used in the BBC story, it closed when pax services ceased in 63 or thereabouts.

EDIT: Others with more knowledge of what the route serves (or does not serve) have declared the proposal as pie in the stratosphere.

I suppose if you re-opened Kibworth it would get some commuter traffic into Leicester (it would be total madness to only run to M Harboro), but I think it would be of more value as an [MK] - Northampton - east Midlands strategic link (assuming M Harboro - Leicester has the capacity to take another 1 TPH).

But it won't happen.
 
Last edited:

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
22,843
Location
West of Andover
Where it will be easy to connect to the existing railway at the Northampton end, the big issue will be at the Market Harborough end as the trackbed has been built over with housing. As well as the level crossings.

Also it will mean the loss of the Northampton & Lamport heritage railway and also the long distance Brampton Valley walking/cycle route.

I've attached a photo at the Northampton end where the Brampton Valley way runs alongside the Northampton loop of the WCML.
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20230311_091811505.jpg
    PXL_20230311_091811505.jpg
    2.6 MB · Views: 59

RT4038

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Messages
5,461
The line closed to passengers in something like 63 or 64. It was a moderately important freight route after the WCML electrification, with mineral trains running to London via Northampton and electric haulage for a few years.

It then "reopened" for passenger service - of sorts, ie 1 tpd - when the St Pancras - Glasgow sleeper was rerouted into Euston. I think that must have stopped c 1977? (I don't think that lasted until 1981, BICBW.)

It was also used for testing purposes, eg APT in the eary 70s.

I suppose the odd freight or ECS turn was still using it in its later years, but by 81 it had run its course. In many ways it was lucky to have lasted that long after passenger services ceased. But in the sense that it's used in the BBC story, it closed when pax services ceased in 63 or thereabouts.
The normal passenger service ceased in 4 January 1960. Its main freight traffic in latter years was coal from the Nottinghamshire area towards London. In the final few years the line was only open for the night shift 22h00-06h00, and, as mentioned, also technically open for a Sleeping Car train on the Midland route (to concentrate Sleeping Car servicing at Euston). The line had several manned level crossings, including two across main roads (the A50, now A5199 near Boughton and the A508 near Lamport). There were two double single bore tunnels (Kelmarsh and Oxendon) with limited clearances and not possible for electrification without seriously major work. The trackbed entering Market Harborough has been significantly built over, although an alternative route to a more southerly junction to the MML is probably possible. The main A14 road breaches the alignment and a new bridge would have to built there, as well as bridges for the former level crossings. No significant settlements are passed en-route with the possibility of a conveniently sited intermediate station!
 

SargeNpton

Established Member
Joined
19 Nov 2018
Messages
1,744
There was a proposal, 20 or more years ago, for a light railway/tram to run between Northampton station and the north side of town along the old trackbed to alleviate the rush hour congestion on the roads.

Needless to say, along with all the other tram schemes that have been proposed for the town over the decades, it came to naught.

Here's a picture of one of the single-bore tunnels, now part of the Brampton Valley Way footpath/cyclepath...
 

Attachments

  • Brampton Valley.jpg
    Brampton Valley.jpg
    530.5 KB · Views: 41

A0

On Moderation
Joined
19 Jan 2008
Messages
7,751
There was a proposal, 20 or more years ago, for a light railway/tram to run between Northampton station and the north side of town along the old trackbed to alleviate the rush hour congestion on the roads.

Needless to say, along with all the other tram schemes that have been proposed for the town over the decades, it came to naught.

Here's a picture of one of the single-bore tunnels, now part of the Brampton Valley Way footpath/cyclepath...

I think that was probably another of ERTA's "schemes" along with their interminable campaigning for Bedford - Northampton and more recently something to Brackmills.

I really must buy some shares in Crayola, with people like ERTA around the dividends must be incredible !
 

A0

On Moderation
Joined
19 Jan 2008
Messages
7,751
The normal passenger service ceased in 4 January 1960. Its main freight traffic in latter years was coal from the Nottinghamshire area towards London. In the final few years the line was only open for the night shift 22h00-06h00, and, as mentioned, also technically open for a Sleeping Car train on the Midland route (to concentrate Sleeping Car servicing at Euston). The line had several manned level crossings, including two across main roads (the A50, now A5199 near Boughton and the A508 near Lamport). There were two double single bore tunnels (Kelmarsh and Oxendon) with limited clearances and not possible for electrification without seriously major work. The trackbed entering Market Harborough has been significantly built over, although an alternative route to a more southerly junction to the MML is probably possible. The main A14 road breaches the alignment and a new bridge would have to built there, as well as bridges for the former level crossings. No significant settlements are passed en-route with the possibility of a conveniently sited intermediate station!

Just to add context to the bits in bold, attached is a current Google Streetview for Boughton Crossing.

The route of the Brampton Way - formerly the railway can be seen to the left just beyond the row of recently felled trees.

The level crossing was where the traffic lights are now.

The development to the left of the picture is the new Northampton relief road which is currently being built.

The sign just behind the white car is for the Northampton and Lamport railway - their new Boughton station is being built just to the north of the crossing. And where the red car is, is the road access to the railway where they get locos delivered.

So putting a bridge in here would be far from simple or cheap. The crossing on the A 508 would be no better, but it's nowhere near as built up in that area.
 

Attachments

  • Boughton.jpg
    Boughton.jpg
    453 KB · Views: 53

Senex

Established Member
Joined
1 Apr 2014
Messages
2,957
Location
York
The normal passenger service ceased in 4 January 1960. Its main freight traffic in latter years was coal from the Nottinghamshire area towards London. In the final few years the line was only open for the night shift 22h00-06h00, and, as mentioned, also technically open for a Sleeping Car train on the Midland route (to concentrate Sleeping Car servicing at Euston). The line had several manned level crossings, including two across main roads (the A50, now A5199 near Boughton and the A508 near Lamport). There were two double single bore tunnels (Kelmarsh and Oxendon) with limited clearances and not possible for electrification without seriously major work. The trackbed entering Market Harborough has been significantly built over, although an alternative route to a more southerly junction to the MML is probably possible. The main A14 road breaches the alignment and a new bridge would have to built there, as well as bridges for the former level crossings. No significant settlements are passed en-route with the possibility of a conveniently sited intermediate station!
Quite apart from those tunnels it was a pretty poor alignment in any case — far from the fast main line over this territory proposed in the schemes of the 1830s and 1840s. This was a cheap single-line railway of the 1850s doubled in connection with the L&NW's ambitions to get into Nottinghamshire in the 1870s (thus the single-line tunnels). Recreation now surely impossible, as other have said — no need for the line for long-distance traffic, passenger or freight, and surely no viable local traffic, and then the physical problems at the Harborough end.
 

NoRoute

Member
Joined
25 Nov 2020
Messages
504
Location
Midlands
Is there much potential given the old line didn't serve Brixworth, the only intermediate settlement of note, that well?

The potential is that it provides a link between the MML and the WCML, allowing rail services along the M1 corridor, connecting Milton Keynes and Northampton to the major towns and cities directly north, Leicester and Loughborough, Nottingham and Derby. Currently journey times for rail along that route are awful and uncompetitive because of the need travel via the West Midlands and change trains.

The geography of that area has changed significantly, back when passenger services were withdrawn in the 1960s Northampton was a small market town and Milton Keynes didn't exist, both were 'New Towns' and underwent huge growth in the 1970s and 1980s, Milton Keynes grew from nothing and Northampton more than doubled in size.

When you look at the geography today, it's rather bizarre that there isn't a rail link between the major towns and cities along that corridor. A historical oddity from how the rail network was pruned by Beeching before the re-shaping of the region from the effects of the New Towns programme and the economic growth and flows from the M1 motorway,
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
19,726
Automatically dictates that it has to be electrified from the outset. Considering E-W didnt get close to that doesn't give it a lot of hope.
 

6Gman

Established Member
Joined
1 May 2012
Messages
9,224
The potential is that it provides a link between the MML and the WCML, allowing rail services along the M1 corridor, connecting Milton Keynes and Northampton to the major towns and cities directly north, Leicester and Loughborough, Nottingham and Derby. Currently journey times for rail along that route are awful and uncompetitive because of the need travel via the West Midlands and change trains.

The geography of that area has changed significantly, back when passenger services were withdrawn in the 1960s Northampton was a small market town and Milton Keynes didn't exist, both were 'New Towns' and underwent huge growth in the 1970s and 1980s, Milton Keynes grew from nothing and Northampton more than doubled in size.

When you look at the geography today, it's rather bizarre that there isn't a rail link between the major towns and cities along that corridor. A historical oddity from how the rail network was pruned by Beeching before the re-shaping of the region from the effects of the New Towns programme and the economic growth and flows from the M1 motorway,
Since the passenger service went in 1960 (quoted above) and Rugby-Leicester in 1962 hardly Beeching.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Extending an hourly Euston-Northampton to Leicester and (ideally) Nottingham would be a useful link.

But would the patronage on a single 350 justify the capital cost?
 

RT4038

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Messages
5,461
Since the passenger service went in 1960 (quoted above) and Rugby-Leicester in 1962 hardly Beeching.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Extending an hourly Euston-Northampton to Leicester and (ideally) Nottingham would be a useful link.

But would the patronage on a single 350 justify the capital cost?
Before spending multiple hundreds of millions rebuilding the line through green fields, how about operating an hourly direct service from Northampton along the Trent Valley line, giving connection at Nuneaton for Leicester, Tamworth for Derby and Nottingham and Stafford for Manchester. When this becomes inadequate for the number of passengers travelling, start thinking about building a new line!
 

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
18,153
If a suitable connection existed at Nuneaton (which it used to before London Midland's Project 110) Northampton to Leicester was possible in 1 hour.
 

Halish Railway

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2017
Messages
2,177
Location
West Yorkshire / Birmingham
If a suitable connection existed at Nuneaton (which it used to before London Midland's Project 110) Northampton to Leicester was possible in 1 hour.
Or if the Nuneaton dive under were to be built you could go via Coventry. Granted it wouldn’t be as quick as using a hypothetical Northampton to Nuneaton service to change onto a Leicester train at Nuneaton, but it would offer a half-hourly connecting itinerary, as well as Nuneaton dive under trains continuing onto Nottingham as per Midland Rail Hub aspirations.
 

daodao

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2016
Messages
3,603
Location
Dunham/Bowdon
The low rural population density and relative smallness of the towns led to the closure of essentially all of the cross-country links in the South Midlands (including the counties of Bedford/Buckingham/Cambridge and Oxford) between the ex-GW/LNW/MR/GNR/GER main lines in the 1960s south of the Leamington-Coventry-Nuneaton-Leicester-Peterborough-Ely axis. The only significant exception was the Bedford-Bletchley line and the retention of the Bletchley-Oxford for goods traffic for many years, with the latter already reopened from Bicester to Oxford. The cost of reinstating any of these lines for through passenger/goods traffic, other than the Bedford-Oxford line that was only partially closed/mothballed, is not value for money, even though certain urban locations are now significantly larger. This point also applies to building a new line from Cambridge to Bedford.
 

A0

On Moderation
Joined
19 Jan 2008
Messages
7,751
Extending an hourly Euston-Northampton to Leicester and (ideally) Nottingham would be a useful link.

But would the patronage on a single 350 justify the capital cost?

Bit in bold - why ? Why would you extend a London service in that way ? All it does is import delays from further down as LNW demonstrated when they started tacking other regional services onto London services.

It's not as if it would offer Nottingham or Leicester a sensible journey time to London.

This scheme is insane as it stands even before suggesting service patterns like that which make no sense. At least EWR is being sensible by focusing on an Oxford - MK service and keeping it contained so it doesn't then create dependencies all over the network for little or no benefit.

Before spending multiple hundreds of millions rebuilding the line through green fields, how about operating an hourly direct service from Northampton along the Trent Valley line, giving connection at Nuneaton for Leicester, Tamworth for Derby and Nottingham and Stafford for Manchester. When this becomes inadequate for the number of passengers travelling, start thinking about building a new line!

^^^ This.

Or, offer through ticketing on the Stagecoach X7 at Market Harborough.

By my reckoning you could spend less than 1% of the *at least* £ 0.5bn that this reinstatement would need and you'd be able to subsidise buses in Northants for at least the next 10 years and probably a bit beyond that.

The low rural population density and relative smallness of the towns led to the closure of essentially all of the cross-country links in the South Midlands (including the counties of Bedford/Buckingham/Cambridge and Oxford) between the ex-GW/LNW/MR/GNR/GER main lines in the 1960s south of the Leamington-Coventry-Nuneaton-Leicester-Peterborough-Ely axis. The only significant exception was the Bedford-Bletchley line and the retention of the Bletchley-Oxford for goods traffic for many years, with the latter already reopened from Bicester to Oxford. The cost of reinstating any of these lines for through passenger/goods traffic, other than the Bedford-Oxford line that was only partially closed/mothballed, is not value for money, even though certain urban locations are now significantly larger. This point also applies to building a new line from Cambridge to Bedford.

And it's worth pointing out that even with population growth, many of these places are still very small. To look at the Northampton - Harborough line, Brixworth (which is the largest place on the line) has a population of less than 6,000 - that's roughly half the size of places like Galashiels which the Borders railway now serves and unlike them, Brixworth is less than 10 miles from 3 stations (Long Buckby, Kettering and Northampton), whereas Galashiels was at least 25 miles from its nearest station.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Or if the Nuneaton dive under were to be built you could go via Coventry. Granted it wouldn’t be as quick as using a hypothetical Northampton to Nuneaton service to change onto a Leicester train at Nuneaton, but it would offer a half-hourly connecting itinerary, as well as Nuneaton dive under trains continuing onto Nottingham as per Midland Rail Hub aspirations.

It would also consume a path between Rugby and Coventry - and those are in short supply as well.

@RT4038 is on the money - get a sensible link from Northampton onto the Trent Valley and the connections are already there at Nuneaton and Tamworth.

There is probably a case for increasing the stopper along the Trent Valley to every 30 mins - so maybe a Northampton - Crewe service could be that other half ?
 
Last edited:

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
21,981
Location
Airedale
Bit in bold - why ? Why would you extend a London service in that way ? All it does is import delays from further down as LNW demonstrated when they started tacking other regional services onto London services.

It's not as if it would offer Nottingham or Leicester a sensible journey time to London
No, but IF the line were reopened you would want to run through from MKC, so you either extend a Euston service or you duplicate the mileage and run through from Oxford. Arguably the second offers greater benefit but at how much greater cost?

Anyway, I agree it's a non-starter.
 

InTheEastMids

Established Member
Joined
31 Jan 2016
Messages
1,404
@RT4038 is on the money - get a sensible link from Northampton onto the Trent Valley and the connections are already there at Nuneaton and Tamworth.

There is probably a case for increasing the stopper along the Trent Valley to every 30 mins - so maybe a Northampton - Crewe service could be that other half ?
Agreed, and if/when HS2 is open, then this ought to create capacity on the Trent Valley to do this as well as accelerating London services.

It's possible to agree that Northampton isn't well served by rail without saying that this is the answer, but this pressure group seems to have trouble with this.
They need to be careful what they wish for... Massive development along the rail corridor could enhance the business case. "West Brixworth, and "New Maidwell", each with populations of 15,000, plus a 7 million square foot rail-connected logistics hub might do the trick. Will locals support that?

I think the real issue they're aiming for and missing is that Northampton isn't that well-served by rail, but this isn't just about more trains. The eastward sprawl of the town and its traffic means access is an issue too. Customers' can be put off train travel, just because of the hassle of getting to the station. So making it easier to access the stations in the area (i.e. not just Northampton but Long Buckby, Wellingborough and Kettering) by bus, active travel etc would probably achieve a lot more than building a new line to Harborough.

I'd also make the observation that, were it in a foreign country quite near the UK, a tram network might be seen as part of the solution.
 

A0

On Moderation
Joined
19 Jan 2008
Messages
7,751
Agreed, and if/when HS2 is open, then this ought to create capacity on the Trent Valley to do this as well as accelerating London services.

It's possible to agree that Northampton isn't well served by rail without saying that this is the answer, but this pressure group seems to have trouble with this.
They need to be careful what they wish for... Massive development along the rail corridor could enhance the business case. "West Brixworth, and "New Maidwell", each with populations of 15,000, plus a 7 million square foot rail-connected logistics hub might do the trick. Will locals support that?

I think the real issue they're aiming for and missing is that Northampton isn't that well-served by rail, but this isn't just about more trains. The eastward sprawl of the town and its traffic means access is an issue too. Customers' can be put off train travel, just because of the hassle of getting to the station. So making it easier to access the stations in the area (i.e. not just Northampton but Long Buckby, Wellingborough and Kettering) by bus, active travel etc would probably achieve a lot more than building a new line to Harborough.

I'd also make the observation that, were it in a foreign country quite near the UK, a tram network might be seen as part of the solution.

Agree with much of the above.

The problem is the advocates - ERTA in this case - aren't "locals" and have a tenuous grasp on reality.

You're spot on about what would follow - demands to make Brixworth a town of 30,000, expansion of other villages into towns as the communities along EWR are about to find out to their cost.

You have no argument from me about Northampton's services, I've posted on here often enough about how poor it is - 2tph each way with relatively slow services, places like Rugby and Nuneaton get quicker journeys to London, but new lines to / from Northampton aren't the answer.

Get the London service to 3tph with stops at Wolverton, MKC and Watford Junction only - and I've only put Wolverton on there because it had to have Northampton services. Speed up the Birmingham service as it used to be - Long Buckby, Rugby, Coventry, International and New Street. Introduce 1 tph to Crewe stopping along the Trent Valley.

All of those things would improve Northampton's rail offerings far more than rebuilding to Bedford or Market Harborough (both of which ERTA support).
 

Cheshire Scot

Established Member
Joined
24 Jul 2020
Messages
1,677
Location
North East Cheshire
It then "reopened" for passenger service - of sorts, ie 1 tpd - when the St Pancras - Glasgow sleeper was rerouted into Euston. I think that must have stopped c 1977? (I don't think that lasted until 1981, BICBW.)
I have it in my mind as having ceased sometime in '73 and by the time I started using it in autumn '74 it was terminating at Nottingham southbound. The northbound train had by then reverted to starting St Pancras with the sleepers being attached at Nottingham - whilst the sleepers were serviced in Nottingham the seated coaches worked a Nottingham to St Pancras semi-fast during the day.
 

Merle Haggard

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2019
Messages
3,991
Location
Northampton
The reason for the passenger service closure was because Southbound mineral trains required banking from Market Harborough to Kelmarsh, and the passenger service was regarded as getting in the way of freight paths, particularly for the returning bankers. The
passenger service had originally run through to Nottingham (London Road Low Level) but the grouping offered alternative routing with more intermediate traffic. The Joint Line section, in particular, was through very quiet country, and as well as the climb to Kelmarsh further South there was a stiff climb over the Leicestershire Wolds.

The line, together with the LNWR/GNR Joint line, was very important to the L.N.W.R. because it enabled them to tap into the Yorks/Derbys/Notts coalfield. They took the opportunity provided by the G.N.R.'s poor financial situation to muscle in on the latter's plans South of Nottingham and reached York by means of running powers over the N.E.R. - so managing to syphon traffic from the G.N.R. which then passed over a line jointly owned with that company. Of course, that's all history now, but, like many routes, passenger traffic was not the reason for its construction.

One iteration of the G.C.'s London Extension would have been to route it over this line.

Ironically, the sleeper service relied on the bus service; the Nottingham train crew for the down service used it to get from Market Harborough to Northampton, having travelled pass. from Nottingham. Reverse after working the morning service.
 

RT4038

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Messages
5,461
The reason for the passenger service closure was because Southbound mineral trains required banking from Market Harborough to Kelmarsh, and the passenger service was regarded as getting in the way of freight paths, particularly for the returning bankers.
Whilst that may have been a consideration, I should imagine that the passenger service demise had more to do with a lack of passengers........
 

A0

On Moderation
Joined
19 Jan 2008
Messages
7,751
Whilst that may have been a consideration, I should imagine that the passenger service demise had more to do with a lack of passengers........

Well quite. The 1958 LMR timetable on Timetable World shows that there was only a passenger service on Mon - Sat, departing Northampton at 6.30, 8.35, 1.47, 3.14 (SO), 3.45 (SX), 5.33, 6.20, 8.33 and the other way leaving Harborough at 7.38, 9.22 / 9.26 (SX/SO), 11.32, 1.07 (SO), 3.15, 5.12, 7.25 and 9.30.

Not exactly an intensive service.
 

Merle Haggard

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2019
Messages
3,991
Location
Northampton
Whilst that may have been a consideration, I should imagine that the passenger service demise had more to do with a lack of passengers........
Well yes, of course; but, in my opinion, there were many other lines with similarly low usage that remained open until Beeching finally saw sense, the paths issue gave the incentive to do something. Another factor was possibly the fact that the boundary between the Midland and Western Lines was Kelmarsh into the 50s and 60s. Co-operation between Midland and North Western offices was not necessarily as good as common ownership since 1923 ought to have ensured and the Western Lines A W.T.T. ended at Kelmarsh. My suggestion (and I have no certain knowledge) is this wouldn't make it easy to plan a passenger service around the bankers, the latter only appearing in the Midland Lines book. It would involve operators' meetings...
 

RT4038

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Messages
5,461
Well yes, of course; but, in my opinion, there were many other lines with similarly low usage that remained open until Beeching finally saw sense, the paths issue gave the incentive to do something. Another factor was possibly the fact that the boundary between the Midland and Western Lines was Kelmarsh into the 50s and 60s. Co-operation between Midland and North Western offices was not necessarily as good as common ownership since 1923 ought to have ensured and the Western Lines A W.T.T. ended at Kelmarsh. My suggestion (and I have no certain knowledge) is this wouldn't make it easy to plan a passenger service around the bankers, the latter only appearing in the Midland Lines book. It would involve operators' meetings...
To be fair, as far as Northamptonshire is concerned, most of the lines which closed were done before Beeching ( Blisworth-Stratford/Banbury, Weedon-Leamington, Northampton-Bedford, Wellingborough-Higham Ferrers, Kettering-St Ives, Buckingham-Banbury and many local stations on WCML and MML and the aforementioned Northampton-Market Harborough line) which only left the Northampton-Wellingborough/Peterborough, Kettering-Manton, a sliver of the Rugby-Peterborough and Great Central lines and Roade Station actually closed during the Beeching era!
 

Merle Haggard

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2019
Messages
3,991
Location
Northampton
To be fair, as far as Northamptonshire is concerned, most of the lines which closed were done before Beeching ( Blisworth-Stratford/Banbury, Weedon-Leamington, Northampton-Bedford, Wellingborough-Higham Ferrers, Kettering-St Ives, Buckingham-Banbury and many local stations on WCML and MML and the aforementioned Northampton-Market Harborough line) which only left the Northampton-Wellingborough/Peterborough, Kettering-Manton, a sliver of the Rugby-Peterborough and Great Central lines and Roade Station actually closed during the Beeching era!
Yes, that's true, Northamptonshire seems to have been singled out for early closures probably because the revenue v costs were so poor; and you haven't mentioned Towcester - Olney - with intermediate stations at Salcey Forest (the name of which suggests that it might not have had a particularly promising catchment area) and Stoke Bruerne - which closed to passengers in 1894.
Perhaps it was because rural, agrarian communities had neither the need nor the means to travel far; or because Northampton has been at a crossroads of road communication since the Romans, and was always road-orientated (there was a number of coaching inns in the town). Anecdotally, none of my neighbours, in a comparatively affluent area of Northampton, ever travel by train so the lack of lines, or the poor service on the line that is still open, causes absolutely no comment or concern.

As an aside; the proposed re-opening of railway lines and stations is often supported by the economic expansion that is said to result but, despite the County having few railway stations or lines, Northamptonshire towns usually manages to be near or at the top of tables of population growth. Presumably, although not quantified, that also indicates economic growth, too.
 

A0

On Moderation
Joined
19 Jan 2008
Messages
7,751
To be fair, as far as Northamptonshire is concerned, most of the lines which closed were done before Beeching ( Blisworth-Stratford/Banbury, Weedon-Leamington, Northampton-Bedford, Wellingborough-Higham Ferrers, Kettering-St Ives, Buckingham-Banbury and many local stations on WCML and MML and the aforementioned Northampton-Market Harborough line) which only left the Northampton-Wellingborough/Peterborough, Kettering-Manton, a sliver of the Rugby-Peterborough and Great Central lines and Roade Station actually closed during the Beeching era!

And Roade's station closure had been proposed pre Beeching - one BR proposed closing as far back as 1958 but had been deferred.

Roade station is one of the few 'reopenings' in Northampton which I think actually has some merit - the others being some form of Rushden Parkway station and at a push, Desborough station.
 

A0

On Moderation
Joined
19 Jan 2008
Messages
7,751
Yes, that's true, Northamptonshire seems to have been singled out for early closures probably because the revenue v costs were so poor; and you haven't mentioned Towcester - Olney - with intermediate stations at Salcey Forest (the name of which suggests that it might not have had a particularly promising catchment area) and Stoke Bruerne - which closed to passengers in 1894.

I don't think Northampton fared any worse in pre Beeching closures than other, similar counties in reality. The problem was, as ever, too many lines, built in the wrong place which had a limited life - and once the traffic, particularly freight, started to dry up, the rationale for these lines disappeared.

On the Stratford & Midland Junction between Olney and Towcester, Wikipedia has this gem

"On the first service, it was reported that one person alighted at Salcey Forest, but no-one joined, whilst at Stoke Bruerne, seven joined and one alighted. The service, which ran from Olney to Towcester, stopping also at Stoke Bruerne, attracted no more than twenty passengers a week and the SMJ incurred a loss of £40"

As an aside; the proposed re-opening of railway lines and stations is often supported by the economic expansion that is said to result but, despite the County having few railway stations or lines, Northamptonshire towns usually manages to be near or at the top of tables of population growth. Presumably, although not quantified, that also indicates economic growth, too.

Some of Northamptonshire's growth has been caused by house price growth - as places like Herts and South Bucks escalated in price, so people moved out to North Bucks, North Beds and Northamptonshire.

A practical example - back in 2002 I bought my first house in Northampton - a 1980s 3 bed link detached with garage, cost £ 90k. At the same time my parents were selling my grandparents house - a 3 bed, post war mid terrace with no garage in Welwyn Garden City, cost £ 145k - over 50% higher.
 

Magdalia

Established Member
Joined
1 Jan 2022
Messages
7,414
Location
The Fens
As an aside; the proposed re-opening of railway lines and stations is often supported by the economic expansion that is said to result but, despite the County having few railway stations or lines, Northamptonshire towns usually manages to be near or at the top of tables of population growth. Presumably, although not quantified, that also indicates economic growth, too.
Northamptonshire's population and economic growth is mostly related to its proximity to the centre of the UK road network. Catthorpe interchange, where M1, M6 and A14 meet, is just over the other side of the Northamptonshire/Warwickshire border.

Last year the ONS published, as part of the 2021 census results, this analysis

The rise of the UK warehouse and the “golden logistics triangle”​



It includes the following paragraph:

In terms of scale, West Northamptonshire had the highest number of business premises occupied by transport and storage (3,200), followed by Leeds (3,100), North Northamptonshire (2,700) and Birmingham (2,500).

People working in warehouses are not very likely to travel to and from work by train.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The normal passenger service ceased in 4 January 1960. Its main freight traffic in latter years was coal from the Nottinghamshire area towards London. In the final few years the line was only open for the night shift 22h00-06h00, and, as mentioned, also technically open for a Sleeping Car train on the Midland route (to concentrate Sleeping Car servicing at Euston).
According to Passenger Services over Unusual Lines (PSUL), the sleeper ran in the 1969, 1970 and 1971 timetables.

The line also briefly had an advertised passenger service in summer 1965 when 3 Yorkshire-South Coast summer holiday trains in each direction were diverted off the Great Central to run via the Midland Main Line to/from Market Harborough then via Northampton/Bletchley to reach Oxford.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top