First North Western (FNW) Class 101s | 1997-2003

[Strathclyder]

Been meaning to start this thread for quite a while as a belated follow-up to my ScotRail slam-door multiple unit thread from late 2021, the main reason being that the surviving ScR 101s were transferred to FNW in the summer of 2000 (not late 1999 as Wikipedia seems to think) after the delivery & entry into service of the first batch of ScR 170s pushed the Met-Cams out via a internal DMU reshuffle.

Given this is a geographical area & franchise I had very limited experience with as a passenger during this era (all of it being 150s between Preston & Blackpool), I'll open this thread up to those with such experiences. Same deal as last time: any memories, notable workings and anything else related to the FNW 101s are fair game here.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

My fading memory of the later period is that they predominantly worked out of the low-numbered platforms of Piccadilly (Marple, Rose Hill, Sheffield) and Oxford Road bay (CLC shorts to Irlam) and were quite rare in Victoria. I was surprised to get one on a Victoria to Wakefield Westgate sometime around 1998, as this was almost always a 142 at that time.

On the Scottish units question, I do remember that at least one unit was in a version of "Blue Train" livery which added a bit of variety. There was also one green unit which I think was the last (or among the last) to retain a centre trailer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 3 cars were dedicated to the Conwy Valley/Holyhead stoppers, but later appeared elsewhere.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

They also had at least one regular working from Macclesfield (ECS from Longsight) for a period and would also very occasionally appear on that route (and probably also to Alderley Edge if perhaps not Crewe) substituting for a missing cl323.

 

[northwichcat]

Old Mid Cheshire Rail User Group reports state there was one used on an 06:25 Knutsford to Stockport service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The other place they operated, quite possibly as a nod to enthusiasts, was "The Flying Dentonian" (the Stockport to Stalybridge Parliamentary). Though I think the final departure, which I have a video of somewhere, was on a Rose Hill Marple service.

 

[nw1]

Due to regularly visiting the Manchester area during this time period, I actually used the 101s really quite frequently.

Like other posters, I remember they ran probably a majority of services on the Hope Valley stoppers (and short workings which terminated in Marple or New Mills) and Rose Hill. A few services were Pacers but the 101s seemed to dominate.

I also recall them on the Conwy Valley; in fact 100% of my Conwy Valley journeys were using 101s and in the period 1997-99.

I believe my last ever trip on a 101, and indeed a heritage DMU of any description, was on Good Friday 2000, when I travelled from Manchester to Edale to do a long-distance walk to Keswick (Pennine Way to Horton, then turn left). I also used a 101 during another long-distance walk in August 1999, from Shropshire to Snowdonia, which passed through Blaenau Ffestiniog. I used the evening 101 to reach the youth hostel at Dolwyddelan (I think), and then another 101 back in the morning to resume the walk.

Oddly, the vast majority of my journeys on 101s were in the late nineties. The idea of them transferring would agree with my earlier memories of the Hope Valley in late 1993 and early 1994 being a mix of 150s (mostly) and Pacers.

 

[MadMac]

There’s a good section on this at Railcar, including a link to a piece on their days in North Wales.

 

[308165]

Things that I remember about the FNW 101s include :

- In addition to routes mentioned above until about 2000 they operated Manchester Oxford Rd - Irlam and Saturdays only Manchester Victoria - Stalybridge the latter including a morning service that started at Greenfield
- On the Mid Cheshire one diagram was a Class 101, again until mid 2000 I think. This may have been SX.
- They occasionally covered for a Class 37 on North Wales services. I remember 101685 covering a Crewe - Holyhead working - was not amused.
- After the first of about three "final days" in May 2000, the power trailer units were reformed into three car sets (DMBS-DTSL-DMBS) with one DMBS locked out of use.
- At some point in 2000 or 2001 I remember there being a power failure on the Hadfield line and one of the hybrid three cars got sent to cover. In this instance the third coach was opened up and I remember standing in the guards van all the way to Hadfield

 

[nw1]

- On the Mid Cheshire one diagram was a Class 101, again until mid 2000 I think. This may have been SX.

I have the feeling this was peak-only; I'm fairly sure in this period all the standard off-peak diagrams were 150s. The pattern at this time was for the Mid-Cheshire services to extend through Manchester to Bolton and beyond (with the Buxton on the opposite half-hour), and I don't recall 101s on any of these.

It was, IIRC, a morning additional journey that got into Manchester around 0930-1000 or so,and was a double 101 on the occasion I saw it. Can't remember exactly what year I saw this, but somewhere between about 1996 and 1998, I think. Not sure what happened in the evening.

It's possible however that the working through to Bolton finished at some point. My strongest memories of this pattern were in the 1997/98 timetable.

 

[308165]

I have the feeling this was peak-only; I'm fairly sure in this period all the standard off-peak diagrams were 150s. The pattern at this time was for the Mid-Cheshire services to extend through Manchester to Bolton and beyond (with the Buxton on the opposite half-hour), and I don't recall 101s on any of these.

It was, IIRC, a morning additional journey that got into Manchester around 0930-1000 or so,and was a double 101 on the occasion I saw it. Can't remember exactly what year I saw this, but somewhere between about 1996 and 1998, I think. Not sure what happened in the evening.

It's possible however that the working through to Bolton finished at some point. My strongest memories of this pattern were in the 1997/98 timetable.

My memory was a bit later. I've just found a picture I took at Altrincham in April 2000 of 685 working the 1224 Piccadilly - Chester. I thought this was diagramed for a 101 but maybe wrong. It seemed to happen fairly frequently.

 

[northwichcat]

It's possible however that the working through to Bolton finished at some point.

Mid-Cheshire services ran through to Southport, with some occasional exceptions like a southbound train from St Annes on Sea and a late afternoon train to Blackpool North. The through services to Southport would have ended when Southport gained it's direct link to Manchester Airport. I'm not sure what year that was.

As I mentioned there was a 06:25 Knutsford to Stockport where a 101 was used. At the time that would have been the only peak train terminating at Stockport, there would have been 2 other morning peak extras going into Piccadilly. As it was the Stockport service that got the 101 that presumably either went back to the depot afterwards, or shunted around to go on to another line.

 

[nw1]

My memory was a bit later. I've just found a picture I took at Altrincham in April 2000 of 685 working the 1224 Piccadilly - Chester. I thought this was diagramed for a 101 but maybe wrong. It seemed to happen fairly frequently.

You are almost certainly right, I didn't use the lines in the area so much by then (though I did travel out to Edale that month on a 101, as already noted). Quite possible the through cross-Manchester working had ended by then.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2023 ==

Mid-Cheshire services ran through to Southport, with some occasional exceptions like a southbound train from St Annes on Sea and a late afternoon train to Blackpool North. The through services to Southport would have ended when Southport gained it's direct link to Manchester Airport. I'm not sure what year that was.

Ah ok, possibly by 2000 as noted above.

When I said Bolton, btw, I really meant "at least Bolton"; I can't remember exactly what went where after that.

I did catch a cross-Manchester from Stockport to Blackrod in December 1997 (to do a walk across Winter Hill to Entwistle, then train back to Victoria), but that must have been a Buxton. Didn't they go to Blackpool?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Summer 1998 was the big change in the North West that shifted the Southports from a roughly hourly service onto the Mid Cheshire (150 and 142 by then, never saw a 101 at Southport since at least early 90s) with a couple of Vic peak extras, over to an hourly Airport plus an hourly Victoria.

There were a number of frequency increases in that major rewrite of most of the North West, almost all of which (bar Southport and Blackpool North frequency gains) didn't stick as they spread the units too thinly - after that almost nothing was a double unit and overcrowding was rife, plus it caused issles on Castlefield.

 

[nw1]

Summer 1998 was the big change in the North West that shifted the Southports from a roughly hourly service onto the Mid Cheshire (150 and 142 by then, never saw a 101 at Southport since at least early 90s) with a couple of Vic peak extras, over to an hourly Airport plus an hourly Victoria.

Ah right, that would figure, as, thinking about it, I remember my use of these routes peaked between around May 1996 and May 1998, with a notable peak during calendar year 1997. Now I think about it, other than that Easter 2000 occasion I am struggling to recall any occasions I went out that way later than May 1998, so most of my 101 trips, aside from the above and the Conwy Valley, must have been in this two-year window.

I guess the WTTs (on Network Rail) will give away quite a bit, as (ISTR) they distinguish between 158s, regular Sprinters, Pacers and heritage DMUs, so will reveal really quite a lot of detail about stock workings in this area: much more than is the case on, say, the Southern EMU network, where, on the WTTs, an EMU is an EMU is an EMU.

 

[L+Y]

I can remember 101s at Parbold when I was a kid- I have a loose memory that the took on the morning "Club Train" at the end of loco haulage, for a short while. I think this would be circa 1996/97.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Is it fair to say that in the late 90s the power-trailer 2-car sets were concentrated on the short workings out of Manchester (Rose Hill, New Mills, Irlam stopper) and the power twin sets worked the more demanding routes to Sheffield and also within North Wales? I count the two 3-car units within this definition as I believe the centre cars were stored outside of the summer timetable?

 

[Strathclyder]

On the Scottish units question, I do remember that at least one unit was in a version of "Blue Train" livery which added a bit of variety.

Sounds like 101692 to me, the shade of blue used being quite close to that once used by the Caledonian Railway and ofc the 303s as delivered.

It was a livery created for the inaugration of the Motherwell - Cumbernauld (via Whifflet & Coatbridge Central) service in May 1996, which was where it normally operated. It was also intended to be a experimental livery created in SPT's search for a replacement livery for Orange/Black, which first emerged in September of the same year on a 156 and officially launched in February 1997 on a 320, that livery of course being Carmine/Cream.

It was transferred south under it's own power from Corkerhill to Longsight in July 2000, as part of a 8-car set made up of four 101s (changing ends at Glasgow Central); 692 led the cavalcade after this end change. Railcar details this move at the very bottom of it's page on Scottish 101 operations.

16/07/2001 - Manchester Piccadilly.

First North Western (Strathclyde Transport liveried) class 101 Met-Cam dmu 101692 departs Manchester Piccadilly - 16/07/2001.

www.flickr.com

(101692 departs Manchester Piccadilly - 16th July 2001. Copyright of Flickr's John Turner)

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can remember 101s at Parbold when I was a kid- I have a loose memory that the took on the morning "Club Train" at the end of loco haulage, for a short while. I think this would be circa 1996/97.

Perhaps it was morning peak only. I don't think I ever travelled on a 101 on the Southport, though I do have a very faint memory (would have been mid 80s) of one on a Kirkby, and another very faint memory of some sort of non corridor compartment DMU (a 117 maybe) on a Southport probably in the late 80s or early 90s, but I would have been very young.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2023 ==

Is it fair to say that in the late 90s the power-trailer 2-car sets were concentrated on the short workings out of Manchester (Rose Hill, New Mills, Irlam stopper) and the power twin sets worked the more demanding routes to Sheffield and also within North Wales? I count the two 3-car units within this definition as I believe the centre cars were stored outside of the summer timetable?

I think so yes. The two 3 cars were originally dedicated to Conwy Valley and Holyhead stoppers (they interworked) but became part of the main pool once the centre cars were abandoned. I had 685 (the green one) on east Manchester services several times.

 

[MadMac]

Sounds like 101692 to me, the shade of blue used being quite close to that once used by the Caledonian Railway and ofc the 303s as delivered.

It was a livery created for the inaugration of the Motherwell - Cumbernauld (via Whifflet & Coatbridge Central) service in May 1996, which was where it normally operated. It was also intended to be a experimental livery created in SPT's search for a replacement livery for Orange/Black, which first emerged in September of the same year on a 156 and officially launched in February 1997 on a 320, that livery of course being Carmine/Cream.

It was transferred south under it's own power from Corkerhill to Longsight in July 2000, as part of a 8-car set made up of four 101s (changing ends at Glasgow Central); 692 led the cavalcade after this end change. Railcar details this move at the very bottom of it's page on Scottish 101 operations.

16/07/2001 - Manchester Piccadilly.

First North Western (Strathclyde Transport liveried) class 101 Met-Cam dmu 101692 departs Manchester Piccadilly - 16/07/2001.

www.flickr.com

(101692 departs Manchester Piccadilly - 16th July 2001. Copyright of Flickr's John Turner)

Another 8 car went south the following week hauled by a 37. Something sticks in my mind that the self-powered consist came to a halt somewhere en route with the fire bells sounding, which would explain the second lot being hauled.

 

[Strathclyder]

Another 8 car went south the following week hauled by a 37. Something sticks in my mind that the self-powered consist came to a halt somewhere en route with the fire bells sounding, which would explain the second lot being hauled.

Yes indeed. Two 37s were used (219 & 109) on that second transfer move rather than just one; the Railcar site has a picture of the cavalcade passing Polmadie (linked below; originally taken by Stuart MacKay). Given the lines they're on in the linked image, they no doubt went via the West Street tunnel from Shields thus avoiding a reversal at Glasgow Central. Am now curious as to why the self-powered consist didn't take this route; lack of appropriate route/traction knowledge perhaps?

Class 101 DMU at Polmadie

I wouldn't be surprised, if there's any truth to it, about the self-powered consist coming to a halt en-route with the fire bells going off, it was a heck of a journey for them to make under their own power regardless of the routing. They went via the WCML to Carlisle as per the Railtrack Scotland train working document below (also to be found at the bottom of the aforementioned 101 Scottish operations page on Railcar).

 

[MadMac]

I had some correspondence with Stuart re this a while back, primarily because the cabs were only equipped to monitor six engines per side. Apparently, someone with the appropriate knowledge had looked at this and reckoned it would work with eight engines per side. He also reckoned that they would make it to Manchester without refuelling en route, albeit with not much to spare.

The hauled move is certainly from West Street, being on the Clydesdale Lines. Perhaps the self-powered one reversed in Central due to lack of the right combination of route/traction knowledge? My (unconfirmed) theory is that something did indeed go wrong on week one and the loco haulage was something of an “insurance policy”.

 

[Strathclyder]

I had some correspondence with Stuart re this a while back, primarily because the cabs were only equipped to monitor six engines per side. Apparently, someone with the appropriate knowledge had looked at this and reckoned it would work with eight engines per side. He also reckoned that they would make it to Manchester without refuelling en route, albeit with not much to spare.

Very interesting. Am a bit surprised (even though I shouldn't really be lol) they'd have sufficent fuel capacity for such a long non-stop - barring the reversal at Central - trip.

The hauled move is certainly from West Street, being on the Clydesdale Lines. Perhaps the self-powered one reversed in Central due to lack of the right combination of route/traction knowledge? My (unconfirmed) theory is that something did indeed go wrong on week one and the loco haulage was something of an “insurance policy”.

That makes sense, don't know why that didn't occur to me even though it seems to be the most likely reason why. Unconfirmed yes, but certainly plausible given the lingering memory you have of the consist coming to a halt somewhere en-route with the fire bells going off. Clearly, the risk of that happening again was deemed to be not worth it, hence the two 37s dragging the last 4 south. In any case, all 4 of the 101s involved in the self-powered move re-entered service out of Longsight, so whatever happened (likely a engine overheating or something of that nature) wasn't nearly as serious as, say, 101688 self-immolating at Mossend in November 1999!

 

[Spartacus]

The 'power triples' on the Chesters, vice late/faulty 175s put in some VERY spritely performances, with maximum speeds closer to 3 figures than 70mph! Rather alarming were the vibrations from around the engine and access panels, though other than that the ride was fine.

 

[150219]

Been meaning to start this thread for quite a while as a belated follow-up to my ScotRail slam-door multiple unit thread from late 2021, the main reason being that the surviving ScR 101s were transferred to FNW in the summer of 2000 (not late 1999 as Wikipedia seems to think) after the delivery & entry into service of the first batch of ScR 170s pushed the Met-Cams out via a internal DMU reshuffle.

Given this is a geographical area & franchise I had very limited experience with as a passenger during this era (all of it being 150s between Preston & Blackpool), I'll open this thread up to those with such experiences. Same deal as last time: any memories, notable workings and anything else related to the FNW 101s are fair game here.

IIRC there were 3 base SX diagrams in the last few years, which were principally all Manchester Piccadilly-Marple/Rose Hill/Romiley. This relied on 50% availability for the 6 units in total. A couple of those weren't used for a few months between trips too. I recall a planned day trip being partially thwarted by a driver needing to be passed out on a second generation DMU, thus the 101 had been swapped out specifically - no problem though, I stayed in the pub outside Rose Hill station! I had kept a note all of the workings and then eventually threw them away when I had a spring clean.

Occasionally there were substitutions for other diagrams with Stoke-on-Trent, Crewe, Alderley Edge, Stockport, Sheffield, and Macclesfield all being used during those last few years. I recall one specific substitution on an evening peak service from Manchester Piccadilly-New Street, although the 101 only got as far as Crewe before the service was pined there.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The 'power triples' on the Chesters, vice late/faulty 175s put in some VERY spritely performances, with maximum speeds closer to 3 figures than 70mph! Rather alarming were the vibrations from around the engine and access panels, though other than that the ride was fine.

Why would this be, out of curiosity? I don’t doubt your info, but surely the power-weight ratio of a triple is the same as a power-twin? (Which is why the ‘it equals a Sprinter’ was somewhat dubious.) The only real difference would be the wind resistance factor wouldn’t it?

 

[Strathclyder]

The 'power triples' on the Chesters, vice late/faulty 175s put in some VERY spritely performances, with maximum speeds closer to 3 figures than 70mph! Rather alarming were the vibrations from around the engine and access panels, though other than that the ride was fine.

Given the amount of power a 'power triple' 101 formation would have (900hp if I've done my math right) and the need/desire to make up for lost time on the part of the driver, such performances don't entirely surprise me.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 8-car transfer move from Corkerhill to Longsight as discussed above exceeded 70mph at any point during the journey after leaving Glasgow, which, in tandem with 'power-quad' 101 formations being a exceedingly rare thing (thus pushing the multiple working systems just a tad beyond their limits), could explain @MadMac's lingering memory of it grinding to a halt somewhere en-route with the fire bells going off.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Given the amount of power a 'power triple' 101 formation would have (900hp if I've done my math right) and the need/desire to make up for lost time on the part of the driver, such performances don't entirely surprise me.

That's slightly more than a 150. Why were 20m Mk3 bodyshell anythings worse than than their BREL predecessors?

 

[308165]

Given the amount of power a 'power triple' 101 formation would have (900hp if I've done my math right) and the need/desire to make up for lost time on the part of the driver, such performances don't entirely surprise me.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 8-car transfer move from Corkerhill to Longsight as discussed above exceeded 70mph at any point during the journey after leaving Glasgow, which, in tandem with 'power-quad' 101 formations being a exceedingly rare thing (thus pushing the multiple working systems just a tad beyond their limits), could explain @MadMac's lingering memory of it grinding to a halt somewhere en-route with the fire bells going off.

Sometime in, I think, 2001 there was a Manchester - Blackpool and return service train that was specially worked by 3*power twins. On the return working in the evening we had a very sprightly run from Preston to Manchester.

The service was terminated short at Oxford Rd with the rear set severally overheating.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why would this be, out of curiosity? I don’t doubt your info, but surely the power-weight ratio of a triple is the same as a power-twin? (Which is why the ‘it equals a Sprinter’ was somewhat dubious.) The only real difference would be the wind resistance factor wouldn’t it?

When were there power triples? FNW did form those hybrid sets which involved coupling, out of use, a power car on the end of a power trailer set, but because of the unpowered vehicle the power to weight is worse than a power twin.

This was mentioned above. The reason for doing it was that it was done by splitting power trailer sets, so you'd have ended up with two bogs and no van or two vans and no bog (forget which way round it was) if you just formed the power cars from power trailer sets into power twins.