Video shows aftermath of violent turbulence on flight

[yorkie]

Video shows aftermath of violent flight turbulence

Multiple people were injured after a plane started to shake, prompting an emergency landing.

www.bbc.co.uk

Multiple people were injured after a Lufthansa plane traveling from Austin, Texas to Frankfurt, Germany started to shake violently. The plane made an emergency landing and at least seven passengers were taken to hospital.

I assume the visual representation of the plane is highly unrepresentitive!

Presumably it's extremely rare that this would happen so suddenly without any prior warning?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Video shows aftermath of violent flight turbulence

Multiple people were injured after a plane started to shake, prompting an emergency landing.

www.bbc.co.uk

I assume the visual representation of the plane is highly unrepresentitive!

Presumably it's extremely rare that this would happen so suddenly without any prior warning?

In what sense unrepresentative? Sudden high level turbulence (CAT = Clear Air Turbulence) whilst not a regular occurrence is not especially rare either especially over much of the USA.

NTSB investigating in-flight turbulence that left 1 passenger dead

Five people were on board the Bombardier CL30 jet when it took off from New Hampshire on Mar. 3.

www.cbsnews.com

This report concerns a similar incident which was severe enough to leave a passenger on a private jet dead. From the timing it may well have been part of the same weather pattern. As per the BBC report the fact that the Lufthansa flight had recently had a passenger service run (multiple catering trays on the floor) suggests that the pilots did indeed have no warning. This despite the fact that pilots are very pro-active in reporting any CAT they encounter.

 

[Lost property]

Video shows aftermath of violent flight turbulence

Multiple people were injured after a plane started to shake, prompting an emergency landing.

www.bbc.co.uk

I assume the visual representation of the plane is highly unrepresentitive!

Presumably it's extremely rare that this would happen so suddenly without any prior warning?

Not entirely unreprenstative....whilst not to the same extent, when a certain "young demographic " tour operator used to book charter flights, the pax were perfectly capable of leaving rubbish / food everywhere...along with damaging seats, window blinds etc.

CAT however, as has been explained, is unpredictable....and another reason to have your safety belt secured during a flight.

 

[yorkie]

I was referring to the computer generated visual representation at around 18 seconds into the video, not the photos.

 

[gabrielhj07]

I was referring to the computer generated visual representation at around 18 seconds into the video, not the photos.

I really doubt that the CGI is accurate, unless the plane managed to stall.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Usually turbulence every time I fly over the Rockies. Montana around Helena can be bad too.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I really doubt that the CGI is accurate, unless the plane managed to stall.

Full blown stall? Probably not. But a loss of airspeed due to unstable air could certainly lead to a sudden drop in height. And the instability may not be the same on both wings leading to un-commanded roll. Automated systems will normally intervene to restore full control but such changes cannot be instantaneous.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Falling in the manner depicted in the video, there is no way the AoA could be below a crit.

 

[yorkie]

Falling in the manner depicted in the video, there is no way the AoA could be below a crit.

could you clarify what this means please?

thanks in advance.

 

[Ediswan]

Falling in the manner depicted in the video, there is no way the AoA could be below a crit.

Did you intend to write "above". That would describe a stall.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Mar 2023 ==

could you clarify what this means please?

I assume they mean this.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...odynamic-condition-that-occurs_fig1_325713154

A stall is an aerodynamic condition that occurs when smooth airflow over the airplane's wings is disrupted, resulting in loss of lift. Stalls occur when the AOA reaches the critical point which can vary between 16 and 20.​

 

[gabrielhj07]

could you clarify what this means please?

thanks in advance.

Angle of attack, between the chord line and the relative airflow. There is a ‘critical angle’ which is when a stall occurs. An angle of attack greater than ‘critical’ would result in the wing stalling.

Did you intend to write "above". That would describe a stall.

Yes, if it was stalled then the angle couldn’t be below critical.

 

[Lost property]

it's worth remembering, that, CGI images are notoriously susceptible to creative minds looking for dramatic effect.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's generally the case that the movements in turbulence are quite small, but it's because they are harsh with high acceleration that you end up feeling like you've dropped 100m. Though I believe it's not unusual for them to be about 5m in very severe turbulence.

Generally speaking the plane is still quite happily flying along, it's just the air is moving it around a bit as it does, a bit like the way your car might blow around a bit on the motorway.

I doubt anyone here thinks that, but the whole "air pocket" thing is the flying equivalent of quackery. Turbulent air is just moving air and the plane doesn't (unless it momentarily stalls, which is very rare) stop flying.

 

[Tetchytyke]

it's worth remembering, that, CGI images are notoriously susceptible to creative minds looking for dramatic effect.

Indeed.

Flightradar24 data suggests this flight dropped about 250ft in 2 minutes of turbulence, which will be very alarming if you’re not expecting it. But won’t look anything like that CGI video, which looks like the sort of click bait you get on YouTube.

Image from FR24 showing the track.

 

[yorkie]

As I thought; thanks all for confirming!

(I'm sure I'm not the only one who has to do a quick conversion when presented with a height in feet! and yes I know the aviation industry uses this old imperial measurement!)

 

[Ediswan]

(I'm sure I'm not the only one who has to do a quick conversion when presented with a height in feet! and yes I know the aviation industry uses this old imperial measurement!)

If you prefer height/altitude in metres, China has a large aviation industry

 

[stuu]

I was on a flight across the Atlantic once which suffered the worst turbulence of any flight I have been on. The meal had been cleared and they had just started coffee/drinks. Stuff off tray tables and loose possessions shot up and hit the ceiling... the pilot came over and ordered cabin crew to their seats immediately, which is a pretty terrifying order to hear. Lots of shaking for a bit, probably far shorter time than it felt like of course. Once it had calmed down they asked if there was a doctor on board.

The rest of the flight was uneventful, but landing was a relief for everyone

 

[Strathclyder]

Usually turbulence every time I fly over the Rockies. Montana around Helena can be bad too.

Turbulance over any mountainous body can be severe. Mount Fuji and BOAC Flight 911 is a perfect example of how clear-air turbulance (or CAT) over mountainous bodies can literally rip a plane apart. Of course, much has been learned as a result of such disasters, but it still serves as a potent reminder nonetheless.

 

[Scotrail314209]

That video there is why it really grinds my gears when people disobey the seatbelt sign.

If it comes on during the flight, it’s on for a reason. If people were up and walking around it would’ve been much worse.

We don’t know how severe it can be at times; we don’t want passengers to hit the ceiling.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That video there is why it really grinds my gears when people disobey the seatbelt sign.

If it comes on during the flight, it’s on for a reason. If people were up and walking around it would’ve been much worse.

We don’t know how severe it can be at times; we don’t want passengers to hit the ceiling.

I learnt that one by being flung up in unexpected turbulence on a Fokker 50 (fun but rough aircraft) and clouting my head on the overhead. Kept it on after that. Sign wasn't on.

 

[Lost property]

Turbulance over any mountainous body can be severe. Mount Fuji and BOAC Flight 911 is a perfect example of how clear-air turbulance (or CAT) over mountainous bodies can literally rip a plane apart. Of course, much has been learned as a result of such disasters, but it still serves as a potent reminder nonetheless.

Thr turbulence association with mountains is generally the rotor associated with lee waves...in very basic terms, think of a wave breaking on a beach, smooth on the top and broken as it curls over.

Lenticular wave is gliding heaven...like being in a lift when nice and smooth....the rotor however, that can be "interesting "...ignore the maths please but this link gives a good explanation.

And in your part of the world, just look North for the proverbial "dinner plates " and the "Mother Ship " when lenticulars form...

Lee waves - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Peter Sarf]

Full blown stall? Probably not. But a loss of airspeed due to unstable air could certainly lead to a sudden drop in height. And the instability may not be the same on both wings leading to un-commanded roll. Automated systems will normally intervene to restore full control but such changes cannot be instantaneous.

I think that is what I encountered about 20 years ago. Flying into Koh Samui (island in the gulf of Thaland) there was a storm to our right - a wall of grey. We were on final approach so low. The wall of grey got to us before we got to the runway. Sudden drop and then the plane was upside down according to many. I believe we were not upside down but climbing very steeply. We were shaking around. The propeller engines were screaming seemed to be almost off the audible spectrum. I guess we might have been hanging on the propellers ?. We gained height circled and eventually landed. The island had signs of severe flooding everywhere.

Everyone was belted as we were landing. So no injuries and no food and drink hanging around. I am just rather pleased we did not hit the ground. I really think the Pilot should have known better. I assume the wall of grey was heavy rain in colder air so less lift ?.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think that is what I encountered about 20 years ago. Flying into Koh Samui (island in the gulf of Thaland) there was a storm to our right - a wall of grey. We were on final approach so low. The wall of grey got to us before we got to the runway. Sudden drop and then the plane was upside down according to many. I believe we were not upside down but climbing very steeply. We were shaking around. The propeller engines were screaming seemed to be almost off the audible spectrum. I guess we might have been hanging on the propellers ?. We gained height circled and eventually landed. The island had signs of severe flooding everywhere.

I don't think "hanging on the propellers" would be a thing. Look at how big a helicopter rotor is compared with the body.

What probably happened there is that you flew through moving air, first downwards then upwards. The plane would still, most likely, have been quite happily flying. Plus things are always rougher in small prop planes than big jets.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I don't think "hanging on the propellers" would be a thing. Look at how big a helicopter rotor is compared with the body.

What probably happened there is that you flew through moving air, first downwards then upwards. The plane would still, most likely, have been quite happily flying. Plus things are always rougher in small prop planes than big jets.

I know it has to be impossible. I can only say I alternated between pressure on my back from the back rest and swallowing hard to keep my food down that I ate many hours before. Others reckoned we were upside down which I find even less believable !.