Avanti West Coast 800EMU at Euston?

[Fastlane256]

Hello. I was just looking at TRAKSY live signalling at Euston and it showed 2 800EMU supposedly in service. I thought they hadn't been put into service as of now. Anyone know anything?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Liverpool and one of the Birmingham services are mostly-110mph non tilt paths for 80x (you can tell, they feel slower yet don't lose time), but the units running them are Pendolinos.

 

[dosxuk]

I was just looking at TRAKSY live signalling at Euston and it showed 2 800EMU supposedly in service.

That's the timing load - the stock the timings for the path are based on - not the actual stock operating the service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you do want to know the stock, Avanti participates in "Know Your Train" so you can see it on Realtime Trains.

 

[Mag_seven]

Since they haven't moved over to Class 800s yet, why are they being timed as such?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sin ce they haven't moved over to Class 800s yet, why are they being timed as such.

Because you can't just recast the timetable at the drop of a hat. The 80x are coming soon, so the last timetable recast had to include the services timed for them.

It wouldn't work to leave the 80x paths unused and just run the Pendolino paths, because that would mean Milton Keynes Central having only one InterCity train per hour, as the other two are to be 807 operated. The Birmingham and Liverpool 125mph paths presently unused don't include Milton Keynes Central stops.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Since they haven't moved over to Class 800s yet, why are they being timed as such?

Usually you get the opposite - the timing loads have to stay the same until all the old stock is gone. Thius is an unusual situation because the new trains are actually slower than the old ones, because of the lack of tilt. Not much, but it has to be allowed for. Therefore the timetable had to be changed before the first of the new stock could enter service.

 

[Snow1964]

Usually you get the opposite - the timing loads have to stay the same until all the old stock is gone. Thius is an unusual situation because the new trains are actually slower than the old ones, because of the lack of tilt. Not much, but it has to be allowed for. Therefore the timetable had to be changed before the first of the new stock could enter service.

Which sort of implies some were scheduled to be in stock before the next timetable change in May, otherwise could have deferred slowing the timetable until after May change.

 

[Mag_seven]

Usually you get the opposite - the timing loads have to stay the same until all the old stock is gone. Thius is an unusual situation because the new trains are actually slower than the old ones, because of the lack of tilt. Not much, but it has to be allowed for. Therefore the timetable had to be changed before the first of the new stock could enter service.

Yes that's what happened with GWR when they waited until all the 800s were in service before removing the HST timings. It doesn't surprise me however that the timetable in this case is not in sync with the new train introduction given the inevitable delays to the latter.

 

[station_road]

The Liverpool South Parkway stops are included in the Liverpool - Euston timings as well, ready for when the 80x arrive (showing as unadvertised stops for now), plus the same at Hartford on the 7.40 southbound which suggests that will get a direct London service again in the peak

 

[The Planner]

If 800s outperformed Pendos then yes it would be an issue, but as its the other way round it doesn't cause a problem with the timetable.

 

[Boodiggy]

The Liverpool and one of the Birmingham services are mostly-110mph non tilt paths for 80x (you can tell, they feel slower yet don't lose time), but the units running them are Pendolinos.

You shouldn’t feel as difference. The trains still run at EPS speeds so can run to 390/221 timings. There is no change in the driving due to the new timings. They don’t actually run slower.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You shouldn’t feel as difference. The trains still run at EPS speeds so can run to 390/221 timings. There is no change in the driving due to the new timings. They don’t actually run slower.

The ones I've been on have definitely run a little slower.

 

[D365]

If 800s outperformed Pendos then yes it would be an issue, but as its the other way round it doesn't cause a problem with the timetable.

In the majority of scenarios, would not the new trains be initially run to older timings? As per @norbitonflyer's comment earlier.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Mar 2023 ==

The ones I've been on have definitely run a little slower.

You've been on an Avanti 80x?

 

[Bletchleyite]

You've been on an Avanti 80x?

No, Pendolinos running in these paths. They can do EPS speeds but they didn't appear to be going quite as fast as normal, and station calls were leisurely too.

 

[D365]

No, Pendolinos running in these paths. They can do EPS speeds but they didn't appear to be going quite as fast as normal, and station calls were leisurely too.

My mistake. Misread your post.

 

[The Planner]

In the majority of scenarios, would not the new trains be initially run to older timings? As per @norbitonflyer'

If they were wholesale replacements for something else yes, but it isnt the case for Avanti.

 

[Jimini]

Bit sad really, when you consider that the 80x paths on the GWML were sped up when the fleet was fully introduced; however with this AWC transition it's going to slow services down. Progress eh!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bit sad really, when you consider that the 80x paths on the GWML were sped up when the fleet was fully introduced; however with this AWC transition it's going to slow services down. Progress eh!

The slowdown isn't massive and the units will be more spacious and have better window alignment (from what I've seen so far). Thus I don't really mind.

 

[D365]

Bit sad really, when you consider that the 80x paths on the GWML were sped up when the fleet was fully introduced; however with this AWC transition it's going to slow services down. Progress eh!

Ultimately will be mitigated by reducing under-the-wires diesel running, and the infrastructure modifications for HS2 trains.

 

[Boodiggy]

The ones I've been on have definitely run a little slower.

You would notice it at the stations. But they certainly run as normal. Speeds through the HABDs and at Ashton OHNS confirmed today. -

 

[Fastlane256]

Bit sad really, when you consider that the 80x paths on the GWML were sped up when the fleet was fully introduced; however with this AWC transition it's going to slow services down. Progress eh!

And apparently the requirement for tilting trains on the WCML to achive 125mph is to be lifted in some sections as the curves/track has been adapted to enable high speed running. So, in theory it would have less of an impact.

 

[Boodiggy]

And apparently the requirement for tilting trains on the WCML to achive 125mph is to be lifted in some sections as the curves/track has been adapted to enable high speed running. So, in theory it would have less of an impact.

The new speed profile is not from any track alterations. They will stay the same for the EPS. The changes are MU speeds only. I am not aware of any PS changes as part of the 805/807 introduction. I know there is a separate look at some other PS speeds, especially on the slow lines but this is not the same work.

 

[Energy]

And apparently the requirement for tilting trains on the WCML to achive 125mph is to be lifted in some sections as the curves/track has been adapted to enable high speed running. So, in theory it would have less of an impact.

Its planned at some point but hasn't happened yet. The 805/807s will only be allowed to do 110mph until something changes, the services which have been retimed only take slightly longer.

 

[Boodiggy]

Its planned at some point but hasn't happened yet. The 805/807s will only be allowed to do 110mph until something changes, the services which have been retimed only take slightly longer.

Yes, that change is the introduction of the MU speed profile. It will be done at the same time the EPS speed differential is removed as there will be no Voyagers. It isn’t physical track changes. That is why places like Weedon remain the same.