Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Snow1964]

Mixed messaging on that though with Rock Rail seemingly accepting the units as they've charged them as assets against the loans they have in place to purchase the units - why would they do that with Alstom if their customer doesn't want them? Suspect a lot is being suppressed in the background as Rock Rail is at risk of not being able to service its debts if its has no lease income and will have to declare itself insolvent.

Without the commercial contracts between Rock Rail and train builders, or the Finance agreements or the Leases to SWR, difficult to know the thresholds for conditions to be met, and when regarding transfer and financing.

It is clear from Rock Rails filed Accounts last year that it was getting compensation income, presumably from Bombardier. Alstom would have inherited the contract so presumably had to continue any late penalty or non performance penalty.

What I don't know is if fixes have been done, or if they have taken some trips on mainline to reach fault free mileage and handover. Or even if contracts have same back to back handover requirements. It could be those financed are now being leased by SWR. I would guess there are hefty penalties for cancellation in the early years to provide a guarantee for those buying the trains that they will get a return on their investment.

Of course DfT will not be impressed if SWR is incurring lease costs for 280 class 701 vehicles, whilst also sub-leasing 707s and paying extension leases (and unplanned repairs) on 455s. Personally I think there must be some looming crisis deadlines, even if it is all hidden from public.

 

[Warrior2852]

Have they done away with the Bombardier brand entirely since the Alstom takeover? i.e. would the newer built 701s still say Bombardier in the various places manufacturers put their logo, or will they now say Alstom on newer trains?

 

[AlexNL]

Alstom are phasing out the Bombardier branding from their products.

For example, the TRAXX 3 locomotives which are manufactured in Kassel used to have the word "Bombardier" embossed in their front panel. The latest locos outshopped from that plant no longer have that.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Well, I mean it’s fair enough really isn’t it. It’d be like Co-Op continuing to bring out products with Somerfield branding way back when.
(I’m only 19 and wasn’t born local, so I have no clue how I remember Somerfield)

 

[Jturner98]

I can confirm that the Bombardier brand is very slowly starting to disappear, will it disappear completely from trains? Probably not but Alstom are in a hurry to remove it. Thinking back I still remember some of the early Electrostars still have Adtranz on them. So I think it won’t disappear completely.

 

[AlexNL]

It's unlikely to disappear from trains which are currently in service (especially those where the brand is embossed in some plate work) as nobody's going to pull a train from service to remove a builder's mark, but it shouldn't be there anymore on newly built vehicles.

The RER NG for Paris is a good example: these trains were to be built by Alstom and Bombardier in a consortium. Both names were featured on the artist impressions. Now that the first train is doing its testing, the Bombardier brand has been removed.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It's unlikely to disappear from trains which are currently in service (especially those where the brand is embossed in some plate work) as nobody's going to pull a train from service to remove a builder's mark, but it shouldn't be there anymore on newly built vehicles.

The RER NG for Paris is a good example: these trains were to be built by Alstom and Bombardier in a consortium. Both names were featured on the artist impressions. Now that the first train is doing its testing, the Bombardier brand has been removed.

I wonder why Alstom want to be associated with these (701s) trains ?.

 

[PG]

I wonder why Alstom want to be associated with these trains ?.

The 701s or the RER NG?

 

[meld3]

Saw 701509+512 out testing at Eastleigh today, the first of the 5-cars ?

 

[Peter Sarf]

The 701s or the RER NG?

Sorry, I mean the 701s.

 

[PG]

Sorry, I mean the 701s.

Well I guess the answer to your question then is likely to be that as the manufacturer Alstom wants its name on them to benefit from supplying the spare parts over the life of the trains. At the rate things are going some items may be required before the train has carried any fare paying passengers!

 

[Goldfish62]

Just seen 013 out on test passing through Staines.

 

[Mikey C]

Well I guess the answer to your question then is likely to be that as the manufacturer Alstom wants its name on them to benefit from supplying the spare parts over the life of the trains. At the rate things are going some items may be required before the train has carried any fare paying passengers!

They'd still get the income without their name being tarnished by being on the lame trains!

 

[Juniper Driver]

Just seen 013 out on test passing through Staines.

Saw 701052 in Wimbledon depot earlier and my first sighting of a 701/5s 701509 and 701512? (Yesterday)

 

[Fazaar1889]

https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1632038347378966528?t=2xQJ_rezpbQ7zpZ_oLyEUA&s=19

At Clapham Jct. 3x701s stored here.

A pic of a 701 at Clapham Junction. Is that another one in the background?

 

[Snow1964]

A pic of a 701 at Clapham Junction. Is that another one in the background?

All 3 are 701s, but cannot tell if middle one is a 5car or a 10car set

 

[444045]

All 3 are 701s, but cannot tell if middle one is a 5car or a 10car set

Only 2x5 car 701 units 701509/512 both coupled together at Eastleigh Depot.

Were out together most days during last week.

 

[Fazaar1889]

All 3 are 701s, but cannot tell if middle one is a 5car or a 10car set

I know he mentioned 3 in the tweet but where's the 3rd?

 

[WizCastro197]

I know he mentioned 3 in the tweet but where's the 3rd?

Just behind the one most prevalent. Only the front can be seen.

 

[Snow1964]

One question that I have (and apologies if it is already answered, but I have missed it), is the ORR authorisation for 5car sets to work in multiple lists 701 501-502 as DV and 701 503-530 as DC anyone know what difference between a DV and a DC unit ?

THE RAILWAYS (INTEROPERABILITY) REGULATIONS 2011, AS AMENDED AUTHORISATION OF CL 701/5 AVENTRA (DC & DV) UPGRADE FOR MULTIPLE UNIT OPERATION
UNIT NUMBERS (INCLUSIVE):
CLASS 701/5 DV 701501-701502
CLASS 701/5 DC 701503-701530

https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2021-07/2021-06-28-authorisation-letter-upgraded-class-701-5.pdf

 

[XCTurbostar]

One question that I have (and apologies if it is already answered, but I have missed it), is the ORR authorisation for 5car sets to work in multiple lists 701 501-502 as DV and 701 503-530 as DC anyone know what difference between a DV and a DC unit ?

https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2021-07/2021-06-28-authorisation-letter-upgraded-class-701-5.pdf

DV is Dual Voltage
DC is Direct Current (Third Rail)

 

[XAM2175]

the ORR authorisation for 5car sets to work in multiple lists 701 501-502 as DV and 701 503-530 as DC

701001 is also authorised for DV operation.

 

[AM9]

701001 is also authorised for DV operation.

Is that just a capability included for testing and driver training, or is it a genuine attempt to create a fleet that might at some point in it's life require an ac/OLE capability for in (passenger) service use?

 

[swt_passenger]

Is that just a capability included for testing and driver training, or is it a genuine attempt to create a fleet that might at some point in it's life require an ac/OLE capability for in (passenger) service use?

Testing only AIUI, there’s only a couple of each length of unit fitted with pans, and I’d expect the pans to be removed on completion. But it ticks the box for any future possible transfers elsewhere, however unlikely.

A very similar approach was taken with the 707s. I’d also expect any AC testing would not be done by SWR staff, but a freight operator with the relevant route knowledge.

 

[XAM2175]

Is that just a capability included for testing and driver training, or is it a genuine attempt to create a fleet that might at some point in it's life require an ac/OLE capability for in (passenger) service use?

Testing only AIUI, there’s only a couple of each length of unit fitted with pans, and I’d expect the pans to be removed on completion. But it ticks the box for any future possible transfers elsewhere, however unlikely.

A very similar approach was taken with the 707s. I’d also expect any AC testing would not be done by SWR staff, but a freight operator with the relevant route knowledge.

Yeah, this. It's three in total: 701001, 701501, and 701502. I've seen nothing suggesting that SWR want a DV capability for their own use, leading me to suspect - in the absence of any better information - that it's Alstom and/or the ROSCO wanting to verify the capability for future reference.

 

[moley]

Is there not a legal requirement that all new third rail classes must be compatible with overhead wires and have test capability tested and verified.

Hence why it was also done on the 707s.

The pans are then removed.

 

[Fazaar1889]

Just behind the one most prevalent. Only the front can be seen.

Oh! I didn't see that. Thanks

 

[stuving]

The first units were taken to the Velim test track for their full-speed dynamic testing, so they needed to run off 25 kV AC for that. There is a video of one there in 2020, with pans up (though not on the test track itself) here.

 

[AM9]

Is there not a legal requirement that all new third rail classes must be compatible with overhead wires and have test capability tested and verified.

Hence why it was also done on the 707s.

The pans are then removed.

I would have thougfh that the RoSCo would need to establish that capability for future leasing bid purposes. Not sure where the high density 23m 701s could be employed under wires, - maybe GA would be a possibility.

 

[Goldfish62]

I would have thougfh that the RoSCo would need to establish that capability for future leasing bid purposes. Not sure where the high density 23m 701s could be employed under wires, - maybe GA would be a possibility.

They're 20m coaches, not 23m.