Composition of proposed IEP Fleet

[Zoe]

They only own a few power cars, and they'd lease them anyway to the next franchisee. And if they tried to take them elsewhere, I'm sure DfT would block the move. It's certainly not a trump card.

Don't First have every right to say to the dft "We will scrap the HSTs if you don't give us the franchise" as First own the HSTs, can't they do what they like with them? I've just read elsewhere that First actually own five full HSTs not just the power cars so this certainly puts them in pole position to win any franchise.

 

[WillPS]

Lovely privatisation.

 

[Aictos]

Never mind 125mph FCC services to Cambridge - put them on the fast FCC PBO services - at least they can use 125mph infrastructure from day 1. Today's 1640 or 1710 would benefit from this as they'd blend more seamlessly with the 1650 GC or 1719 EC services respectively up to Huntingdon or even on to PBO.
?

Totally agree with your point there, although what I would do would make the current 0540 FCC fast to Kings Cross which would enable it to get into London before the 0610 EC service to Kings Cross - ought to be popular with Peterborough commuters to get a fast service arriving in London before 7am.

 

[Sean_]

As long as you have the option to avoid underfloor engines by moving coaches, all is good. I'm sure that if they aren't tilt-profile they'll be at least as comfortable as the class 444s. Don't think we're going to have another voyager on our hands, and the underfloor engines will only be on for a small section of the journeys they'll be taking.

Very concerned about the lack of buffet/kitchen facillities, how are FGW or whoever gets the franchise going to explain away probably currently the most comprehensive on-board rail catering service in the UK?

 

[Anonywave]

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A bit of a stretch for 125 mph running.

What is the reason for that though, that gangways are unsuitable for that speed?

 

[ChrisCooper]

As I've said before when it's been brought up, if First mess the DfT around with the HSTs they could find themselves blocked from other franchises when IEP makes their HSTs worthless. They don't hold all the cards by any means, and the DfT are not to be messed with.

 

[Zoe]

As I've said before when it's been brought up, if First mess the DfT around with the HSTs they could find themselves blocked from other franchises when IEP makes their HSTs worthless. They don't hold all the cards by any means, and the DfT are not to be messed with.

The thing is though that the other lucrative franchises are due to be tendered before Greater Western. The dft could also decide to give the Greater Western franchise to First just to be on the safe side.

 

[tbtc]

As I've said before when it's been brought up, if First mess the DfT around with the HSTs they could find themselves blocked from other franchises when IEP makes their HSTs worthless. They don't hold all the cards by any means, and the DfT are not to be messed with.

In the way that the DFT didn't mess around with National Express and stripped them of NXEA and C2C when they took NXEC away?

 

[Zoe]

In the way that the DFT didn't mess around with National Express and stripped them of NXEA and C2C when they took NXEC away?

They were unable to. The East Coast franchise was operated by National Express East Coast Limited, not London Eastern Railway Limited or c2c Rail Limited.

 

[starrymarkb]

Similarly First PLC own the HSTs, not First Great Western who lease them from FG PLC

 

[Zoe]

Similarly First PLC own the HSTs, not First Great Western who lease them from FG PLC

First Greater Western Limited, First Great Western is just the brand name. First Greater Western Limited will be in pole position to retain the franchise though as they can say they have a leasing arrangement with FirstGroup, none of the other companies can say that.

 

[Yew]

I understand that the 5-car EMUs are for Cambridge services. Realistically, there's no other use for them on EC.
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I would be pleased to see a Fast service, Lincoln=> Newark=> Nottingham => Leister ( maybe any bigger stations on that route too

 

[Oliver]

Don't First have every right to say to the dft "We will scrap the HSTs if you don't give us the franchise" as First own the HSTs, can't they do what they like with them? I've just read elsewhere that First actually own five full HSTs not just the power cars so this certainly puts them in pole position to win any franchise.

No, it doesn't work like that; The DfT has control over what stock is used where, and it would be business suicide for First to refuse to play ball. Anyway, why would First scrap their HST's just because they didn't win a franchise? They would make money by leasing them to the winner, not scrapping them. There is an interesting question of which HST's will go out of service when the IEP fleet comes into service, but that's several years down the line.

 

[Zoe]

No, it doesn't work like that; The DfT has control over what stock is used where, and it would be business suicide for First to refuse to play ball. Anyway, why would First scrap their HST's just because they didn't win a franchise? They would make money by leasing them to the winner, not scrapping them. There is an interesting question of which HST's will go out of service when the IEP fleet comes into service, but that's several years down the line.

The dft may well have control over stock as far as the ROSCOs go but fact is that First own five HSTs so don't they have the right to do with them what they want? First could not be forced to lease their HSTs to another company and if First want to scrap them to make sure no-one else gets hold of them they should have every right to do so. It should also be noted that it was First's decision not to use the 180s, the dft did not decide this.